What do you Think about Xion?

[HeartSeams]

-Looks at KH3D when it wasn't even planned and is making me buy another damn system-

-sigh- KH3D was planned. Nomura has been thinking about it in detail while working on BBS, Days and Coded, and his interviews prove it.

As for Xion, I don't really mind her. I think I'm more disappointed with how awesome Days could've been without her, than her specifically.

I personally found it more plausible that Roxas could've had dual wielding explained due to him having Ven's heart and being the nobody of Sora

Uh... that IS how it's explained.

 

[Th Key of Destny]

First of all, Roxas didn't absorb Xion. She was floating up into the sky. She went back to Sora; she even says so.

You're certain she isn't absorbed? Wasn't the entire point of Riku fighting Roxas at Memory's Skyscraper because in the act of felling and absorbing Xion, Roxas had brought Sora's memory restoration to a complete halt? And also the whole throw the Oblivion Keyblade to Riku thing? I could very well be wrong but I'm sure I've read that she was absorbed.

And I do remember the keyblades existing in multiple parts interview from a while back (I think it was in the 20 KH mysteries interview), but I was just throwing out a theory, that to the best of my knowledge had less plotholes that the supposed one, which I've never seen to be 100% confirmed. I've got a few more plotholes that I could throw around that support my theory but here's not really the place for that, and though I'd love to see some quotes backing up what you've said I'm happy to believe that you're right and what we've all been thinking for a while now is correct, again it was just a theory.

 

[HeartSeams]

You're certain she isn't absorbed? Wasn't the entire point of Riku fighting Roxas at Memory's Skyscraper because in the act of felling and absorbing Xion, Roxas had brought Sora's memory restoration to a complete halt? And also the whole throw the Oblivion Keyblade to Riku thing? I could very well be wrong but I'm sure I've read that she was absorbed.

Xion/Roxas had brought Sora's memory restoration to a halt a while before that happened.
Xion herself says she's going back to Sora, and we see her disperse into the sky, not get absorbed into Roxas.
But, the memories from Sora flowed out into Roxas anyway, so, if Xion were to go back to Sora, part of her could still get through to Roxas.

The real point is that Xion going back to Sora/Roxas had little to do with Dual Wielding. It was just the act of feeling that awoke the second Keyblade, not because someone was "absorbed" or anything like that.

 

[Xpectra No. Zero]

Well i´m not saying.."I Hate Xion" i just think she can put more emotion to the story....i only buy the game ´cos OMG!! obviously ´cause is KINGDOM HEARTS... anyway...What was the goal of Axel when he arrived on the organization?....in the secret journal Saix says something about their plan... ¬¬ wait!! if the answer is in KHIII don´t tell me please XD i didn´t play it already

 

[Zarin I Yehudahi]

People confused hatred with justified criticism and complaint. imo

 

[sora364]

People confused hatred with justified criticism and complaint. imo

Haha. Though...their complaints do have validity, I just find nearly all of them laughable. Still, I respect them...regardless as of to how ludicrous they sometimes get. That does not go to say I am an ardent "Xion supporter", because I am not.

For example, if you think of her as a "Mary Sue"...then...by all means...hate the *****. Not insinuating that I am in concord with this manner of thinking, but if that character archetype annoys the living hell out of you, that type of dislike is completely justified.

If you *cough*goldpanner**cough**cough* think she is a self insert from a fan-fiction and do not believe she is authentic as Nomura played "little role" in her creation, well then...once again, hate the bitch. I loathe self-inserts myself and spurn fillers that do not contribute to the main story in any shape or form: *looks at DmC reboot/prequel*

Self Insert + Filler=

So...while I do not see her as a filler character (as I feel she contributes to the plot in a small form) and not as a self-insert (I have no clue what Tomoko Kanemaki's personality is.) -therefore I feel I lack the grounds to label her as such. Yet, if someone feels that way...once again: Hate Xion. Because clearly, Don'te is a ******* self-insert and gives nothing to the main DMC story, and I get pissed off just looking at it.

The two above examples I listed were some of the more reasonable ones.

In fact, the only thing that "irks" me is when people just scream out: "Pointless Character!" with only sophistry and flamboyant opinions masquerading as facts. ...It can get...extremely annoying after reading too much of it. In all due honesty, using this logic, Aqua is also a "pointless" character as she is self contained in Birth By Sleep (not including her Armor in the KH2:FM+.) But hey...do I go out of my way to call her a useless character that was totally unneeded? No, I don't. Someone is bound to say "The same rules don't apply to Aqua." when that is total BS. If I can play every game with the exception of Birth By Sleep and understand the story perfectly: there is literally no difference between the two.

Don't get me wrong, I found Aqua to be FAR from useless. In fact, her role thus far is far more integral than Xion's. Yet, this is not my point.

I first thought as "Ansem the Wise" being unneeded, as I felt the original concept of "Ansem" was perfect as it was: former Lord of Hollow Bastion gone pyscho. Instead, I find out I was really fighting a damn imposter and is truly "Xehanort's Heartless" who was just using ******* identity theft. Suffice to say, I ended up liking him less.

...But, I never threw a fit about it like most of these people. The only difference between Ansem the Wise and Xion (other than Nomura presumably coming up with the idea for him) is that Ansem the Wise was given significance to the plot as the series expanded (Chain of Memories, 358/2 Days, & Birth By Sleep.) His character was thought of after completion of Kingdom Hearts 1. Meaning AnsemSOD, has been "retconned"- keep in mind, I am using quotation marks when I say that. Only in the practical sense that it expanded the universe, thus nullifying anything we thought we knew about him previously.

As of now, Ansem the Wise/ Diz's story now greatly affects the tide of the plot, and I am now satisfied with it. ...No idea what made me ***** about it in the first place.

Xion, as of now, is mostly self-contained in 358/2 Days, not fully. She has not has such an impact as of yet, and is thus regarded as: "pointless", which I find bewildering. Give the character a chance. Just because she has no critical impact on KH2's story, does not constitute her being instantly fruitless. I mean: Her being referenced in Coded & making a cameo appearance in BBS' "Blank Points", hint that she has yet to be fully explored.


If the franchise ends without delving deeper into Xion...then I feel we have the right to say she is arguably pointless, and mostly self-contained in Days. Now, I feel it is too early to pass such a bold judgement. *Sighs* Oh well...haters gonna hate. :wink:

Xion haters can hate all they want. The fact is: she's canon and she exists,
Whether you hate her or love her, she's here to stay. I mean...if a character wins a nomination for "best new character" or whatever...I have a feeling Square/Nomura will not ignore that.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

That does not go to say I am an ardent "Xion supporter", because I am not.

Oh no, of course you aren't. You definitely don't give that vibe at all, nuh-uh.

if a character wins a nomination for "best new character" or whatever...I have a feeling Square/Nomura will not ignore that.

I love when people bring this up as if it's credible - funny as all hell.

You would have done better saying that Xion's one of Nomura's favorite characters cause of its clever sex changes.

 

[8298906]

I'm not gonna touch the whole Aqua "useless" comment cause if i do this little Xion thread will turn into a Aqua thread and aqua dont take the spot light from other characters.

I first thought as "Ansem the Wise" being unneeded, as I felt the original concept of "Ansem" was perfect as it was: former Lord of Hollow Bastion gone pyscho. Instead, I find out I was really fighting a damn imposter and is truly "Xehanort's Heartless" who was just using ******* identity theft. Suffice to say, I ended up liking him less.

You feel the same way as most of us Xion critics do X3. Current information being changed just to fit a new character. That's what Xion did, she she changed Roxas's story just for it to fit her. His story was fine with her: A young boy new to the world living with people he half as know and looking for answer to who he is, what's his purpose in life, & should he really trust these people. Those answer for the questions i just listed Roxas should have been looking for in Days but were replaced with him looking for Xion, overly caring about her, & mindlessly talking. Xion took what made Roxas a very understandable and human character to begin with.

 

[Vani]

ugh another thread really. who really cares. either you hate her or you like her it really dosent matter.

 

[sora364]

Oh no, of course you aren't. You definitely don't give that vibe at all, nuh-uh.

...Just because do not hate Xion like certain people do, that does not constitute me being a fanboy either. If I liked her so much, I would waste 15 seconds of my life joining the "Xion Fanclub." Suffice to say, I haven't and never intend to do so. I feel most of the excoriation she attracts is prevalently groundless. But...I'll just hope that was sarcasm After all, this is you Twilight *remembers stupid misunderstanding involving sarcasm* :redface:

I love when people bring this up as if it's credible - funny as all hell.

You would have done better saying that Xion's one of Nomura's favorite characters cause of its clever sex changes.

*sighs* It is highly credible, and no, I am not stating then in regards to her "positive" reception among the fanbase. Just in case you mean that, I am not using that as leverage to say "Xion is a good character! Look how all these people like her!" No. I was by no means alluding to that. I am saying that since she has a strong form of popularity among the fanbase, Nomura may explore the character more. She still has potential.

I'm not gonna touch the whole Aqua "useless" comment cause if i do this little Xion thread will turn into a Aqua thread and aqua dont take the spot light from other characters.

Tell that to Terra during the Mark of Mastery Exam Aqua is not useless, far from it. She has contributed a stupendous deal more to the plot than Xion. But the same principles revolve around her. One commonly inferred "Anti-Xion" reason is: "You can skip 358/2 Days and the story will make complete sense. You don't need to know about her. Xion is useless." Well, I have seen people play the "You can skip Birth By Sleep and the story will make complete sense. You don't need to know about her. Aqua is useless" card. Aqua, like Xion, is self-contained...only...infinitely more important. Needlessly to say, I find both arguements to be relatively crappy. It is clear we will be seeing More Aqua in future installments and perhaps more Xion

This is why that "reason" never sat well with me. Just because something is self contained, does not instantly render it inane. When I say: "Without Aqua, there is no plot." Then someone says: "It's all self contained in BBS!" I just tell them to STFU and walk off. But yeah, you're right. Let's try to keep our favorite Keyblade Master, Aqua out of this. She's way too good for Xion thread! :biggrin:

I'm not trying to derail the discussion. We'll save that for another topic

You feel the same way as most of us Xion critics do X3. Current information being changed just to fit a new character. That's what Xion did, she she changed Roxas's story just for it to fit her. His story was fine with her: A young boy new to the world living with people he half as know and looking for answer to who he is, what's his purpose in life, & should he really trust these people. Those answer for the questions i just listed Roxas should have been looking for in Days but were replaced with him looking for Xion, overly caring about her, & mindlessly talking. Xion took what made Roxas a very understandable and human character to begin with.

...Yes...but there is a small rift. The main difference is: I did not prate about it unrelentingly and bicker about how "pointless" he was. I accepted it, and just declared: "Everything I knew before was a lie!!!!" That is basically it. I think of as: "I didn't know all of the information, but now I do." I find that most people here think the opposite. Thus...why the hate for Xion still brews strongly. :tongue:

 

[Goldpanner]

Haha. Though...their complaints do have validity, I just find nearly all of them laughable. Still, I respect them...regardless as of to how ludicrous they sometimes get. That does not go to say I am an ardent "Xion supporter", because I am not.

For example, if you think of her as a "Mary Sue"...then...by all means...hate the *****. Not insinuating that I am in concord with this manner of thinking, but if that character archetype annoys the living hell out of you, that type of dislike is completely justified.

If you *cough*goldpanner**cough**cough* think she is a self insert from a fan-fiction and do not believe she is authentic as Nomura played "little role" in her creation, well then...once again, hate the bitch. I loathe self-inserts myself and spurn fillers that do not contribute to the main story in any shape or form: *looks at DmC reboot/prequel*

Self Insert + Filler=

So...while I do not see her as a filler character (as I feel she contributes to the plot in a small form) and not as a self-insert (I have no clue what Tomoko Kanemaki's personality is.) -therefore I feel I lack the grounds to label her as such. Yet, if someone feels that way...once again: Hate Xion. Because clearly, Don'te is a ******* self-insert and gives nothing to the main DMC story, and I get pissed off just looking at it.

The two above examples I listed were some of the more reasonable ones.

Both of those are my main reasons ;D *coughcough*

In fact, the only thing that "irks" me is when people just scream out: "Pointless Character!" with only sophistry and flamboyant opinions masquerading as facts. ...It can get...extremely annoying after reading too much of it.

I'm going to have to say I agree, even though I hate everything about her. How much does a character need to contribute to the story before it's not pointless...? It's not like there's a checklist, and it's all a matter of opinion.

I think the entire plot of Days was crap, and everything it added to the series was crap; new characters, characterisation, events.... pretty much all crap, imo. I wish that story was either written completely differently, or left to our imaginations. That is my opinion. It doesn't make it 'pointless', just... crap. lol

I guess the 'pointless thing' comes in because, as you say, Xion was a retcon. I don't mean that in a negative sense, I mean that in a stating-the-fact sense. She wasn't part of the original conceptualisation of Organisation XIII, and was added much later when they asked Kanemaki to help write the scenario for Days (2008, according to an afterword in one of her novels). So that's three years after KH2 was released, and four years after the Org first appeared, in CoM. We don't know when the Org were first thought of, but it's safe to say that it was before CoM was released.

And, being a retcon, Xion is easy to ignore, seeing as everything she 'answered' could already have been explained satisfactorily by playing KH2 and reading interviews from that time.

Except, that doesn't make her 'useless' in the current plot; now, she is very important, obviously, and the story of Days as presented would collapse without her.

All this means is that it is nice for me, because it is very easy for me to pretend she never happened. Because the series so far was written with her having never happened.

When you say that in the future she might become more useful and less contained, that is perfectly true. She might. But as you said at the start, that's not why people like me hate her, and so her showing up more is probably going to just make people like me hate her more D;

 

[sora364]

Wow. I was seriously expecting a "You're wrong! Xion is pointless!" -insert essay length description of why Xion is useless- Not from you in particular, but the first person who quoted me. Glad to see that isn't the case, because I sure as hell wasn't going to respond back. haha

OFF TOPIC: Your sig made me lol hard. haha

Yeah, my only gripe is when people throw her into the "pointless" bin because of their mordant distaste for the character. You summed it up flawlessly:

I think the entire plot of Days was crap, and everything it added to the series was crap; new characters, characterisation, events.... pretty much all crap, imo. I wish that story was either written completely differently, or left to our imaginations. That is my opinion. It doesn't make it 'pointless', just... crap. lol

^^This. Thank you so much for being the first person I've come across to acknowledge this. You admit just because you dislike something, that does not automatically warrant it being worthless to the plot. *sighs* You're the first sensible "Anti-Xion" user I have encountered thus far! Yay! I found someone in the Xion Hate Club that I actually like! :tongue:jk

 

[Allister Rose]

the problem with her is she's useless, she makes up the plot, but only by force, she wasn't necessary. the only thing she did was dual wielding which even that wasn't important enough to be fully explained.

i feel she was a keyblade wielder who was also a plot device. it was very upsetting to see how she wielded a fake keyblade. it would've been interesting if she had the real thing. Also, her personality was boring, nothing new came out of her.

there was this big mystery about her at first when the game barely released that kept us interested. I personally wish she didn't die. i wish she was still out there, it would make her less useless

 

[sora364]

the problem with her is she's useless, she makes up the plot, but only by force, she wasn't necessary. the only thing she did was dual wielding which even that wasn't important enough to be fully explained.

And the "Self-Containment" arguement arouses yet again! :biggrin:

i feel she was a keyblade wielder who was also a plot device. it was very upsetting to see how she wielded a fake keyblade. it would've been interesting if she had the real thing. Also, her personality was boring, nothing new came out of her.

Definitely a plot device...no denying that one. And her being a Keyblade wielder, peaked my interest. But since she wields the Kingdom Key, her wielding a true keyblade would be impossible. I found myself more annoyed that: She wasn't even a ******* Nobody. Threw all my damn theories out the window. RAGE. I played through the entire game to learn her origins and I'm like: Oh...so...she's a "replica"...who's...also a transexual? Hmm... Yes...that disappointed me. Though I did like the mechanics surrounding it (how her appearance changes depending on who is looking at her)

As for her personality...egh...I liked it, even though it's been used a thousand times.

I personally wish she didn't die. i wish she was still out there, it would make her less useless

Nomura has said it himself, no one is really "dead" in the Kingdom Hearts Universe. ...She can still come back. Although, it would cheapen 358/2 Days ending for me...which happens to be my personal favorite.

I mean...the ending was clearly obvious. If you look at the back of 358/2 Day's boxart...it throws the damn ending straight in your face. :tongue:

 

[*TwilightNight*]

...Just because do not hate Xion like certain people do, that does not constitute me being a fanboy either. If I liked her so much, I would waste 15 seconds of my life joining the "Xion Fanclub." Suffice to say, I haven't and never intend to do so. I feel most of the excoriation she attracts is prevalently groundless. But...I'll just hope that was sarcasm After all, this is you Twilight *remembers stupid misunderstanding involving sarcasm* :redface:

Not joining the fanclub means that you're not a fanboy at all. It's a well known rule, and very understandable. The defensiveness, the Nintendo poll pride, the little quips, the long posts on, etc., are just means to hide your real neutrality on the matter. I must have been veered off track somehow.

And sarcasm? I don't get what you're saying. What's this sarcasm you think that I'm doing?

*sighs* It is highly credible, and no, I am not stating then in regards to her "positive" reception among the fanbase. Just in case you mean that, I am not using that as leverage to say "Xion is a good character! Look how all these people like her!" No. I was by no means alluding to that. I am saying that since she has a strong form of popularity among the fanbase, Nomura may explore the character more. She still has potential.

You're definitely proving to me that you're not a fan so far. Typically, someone who was would say Xion had more positive reception than negative. Yet...you're not showing any signs of that at all. Instead, you see that she is enough of a polarizing character for people to take notice of, comment upon, complain of, ask as to why the hate of, and many other topics covered daily, along with 358/2 Days itself heavily criticized as a game. And you don't even have to come from KHI to be aware of it due to outsiders. Glad we reached some comprehension between us.

I mean, if she wasn't so well accepted for the majority of the fandom, we would be having a lot of conversations or debates with me not liking the turn out and you protecting her honor.

Which we never did.

 

[sora364]

Not joining the fanclub means that you're not a fanboy at all. It's a well known rule, and very understandable. The defensiveness, the Nintendo poll pride, the little quips, the long posts on, etc., are just means to hide your real neutrality on the matter. I must have been veered off track somehow.

Damn straight!

And sarcasm? I don't get what you're saying. What's this sarcasm you think that I'm doing?

Oh...I dunno. Just my silly imagination. I mean, after carefully reading this your post there is literally no sarcasm at all. *gasps* What was I thinking!? You don't even know what the word sarcasm means!

You're definitely proving to me that you're not a fan so far. Typically, someone who was would say Xion had more positive reception than negative. Yet...you're not showing any signs of that at all. Instead, you see that she is enough of a polarizing character for people to take notice of, comment upon, complain of, ask as to why the hate of, and many other topics covered daily, along with 358/2 Days itself heavily criticized as a game. And you don't even have to come from KHI to be aware of it due to outsiders. Glad we reached some comprehension between us.

Oh, silly you. I am a fan. Just not a die hard fanboy. There's a difference

I mean, if she wasn't so well accepted for the majority of the fandom, we would be having a lot of conversations or debates with me not liking the turn out and you protecting her honor.

Which we never did.

No, duh! Of course none of that crap never happened! No need in pointing out events that never transpired in the first place. Tch...it's a well known fact that everyone likes Xion. Even people in the Xion Hate Club! The same way I don't have to be a fanboy to join a fanclub, people don't have to hate Xion to join the hate club

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Damn straight!

It's the only credible explanation.

Oh...I dunno. Just my silly imagination. I mean, after carefully reading this your post there is literally no sarcasm at all. *gasps* What was I thinking!? You don't even know what the word sarcasm means!

Of course I don't. But if I did, I'm probably not doing it.

I was being serious in my reply at all times.

Oh, silly you. I am a fan. Just not a die hard fanboy. There's a difference

That difference can be slightly blurred.

No, duh! Of course none of that crap never happened! No need in pointing out events that never transpired in the first place. Tch...it's a well known fact that everyone likes Xion. Even people in the Xion Hate Club! The same way I don't have to be a fanboy to join a fanclub, people don't have to hate Xion to join the hate club

Oh, certainly, you're completely, completely right, yes *nods*.

 

[Allister Rose]

i just don't like her as a character. i felt she could've done more to the series if she survived than just disappear only to cause more unnecessary delays in the story.

she also created the story more than roxas, it was more like xion was the sole purpose of the game, not even roxas or the organization were important. but obviously this was expected from the start. but i still can't shake off how lacking as a character she is. i know she did things that made her have personality, but she just didn't seem appealing as much as the other cast

 

[flurryflames]

Not really fond of her either. I think it would of been better that if she was a complete different person than a predictible person that we all know of. It was disappointing finding out about who she really is.

 

[Zarin I Yehudahi]

i just don't like her as a character. i felt she could've done more to the series if she survived than just disappear only to cause more unnecessary delays in the story.

she also created the story more than roxas, it was more like xion was the sole purpose of the game, not even roxas or the organization were important. but obviously this was expected from the start. but i still can't shake off how lacking as a character she is. i know she did things that made her have personality, but she just didn't seem appealing as much as the other cast

I thought it would've made more sense for Xion herself to appear in Coded instead of the Journal apparently cosplaying as Riku which I thought was a BS move on Nomura's part.