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Exactly, Nomura has deliberately formulated the entire series to be one massive cul-de-sac of characters and settings where TAV end up in Destiny Islands to meet Sora and Riku pretty much just because and the majority of the original characters in the games are from the same worlds just because and themes and plot points are consistently being recycled just because and yet KH3 doesn't seem to grasp how to utilize this structure to its advantage, and instead looks to be using it in the cheapest and laziest ways to create a world that, despite all of its constant reinforcement of the dramatic vocabulary which has been continuously revisited throughout the series, just feels arbitrary and weak and lacks grounding. It lacks a center, or a thesis:It's kinda amusing to read people saying "he can't put everything in one game, you can't solve all conflicts in the same game" when Nomura was the one who made this mess in the first place.
I had a weird dream last night that Hundred Acre Woods contained one area that was just this massive black space with hundreds of rainbow, glowing grind rails and you got to ride around on them with Pooh and I don't know what the purpose of it was but it had me totally reevaluating my feelings about that world.The fact that 100 Acre Wood would've been a huge world tacked onto it would've softened the blow. Sort of the way Mysterious Tower is connected to TT in KH2, so that you get a short interlude with Yensid without it being a full-fledged world of its own.
Even then he was stringing people along.I pretty much knew the score once Nomura was saying that KH can stand on its own and doesn't need FF characters anymore.
Do what you want. Sure, I want people to hold this game to a firm, critical standard, and to be uncompromising and all that, but I can't make anyone do anything. I can only make the case for how I'm receiving the game (or what we know of it) and why I feel the way I do. You're welcome to both concede that it's hot garbage, and love it in spite of that. You're welcome to argue that it's the best thing to ever happen. You have the same platform that I do, on a discussion forum where disagreements are going to occur. I'm not going to handhold you to feeling OK about the game, or make excuses on its behalf just so people can keep their echo chamber of hype intact.At this point I've noticed that you seem to hate the idea that anyone can be okay with imperfection at this point. As if there's a baseline quality that we should all fight for, and that anything less should be treated as garbage. That we aren't allowed to "be okay" with omissions in KH3.
There are some good aspects of this idea, such as how Stitch was tied into the storyline, but I wouldn't want Leon to show up as a mere cameo. That's exactly the kind of integration I wouldn't want to see in KH3, and Radiant Garden on the whole is important enough to warrant at least as much attention and resources as Twilight Town; I would argue that it deserved far more given the sheer centrality of it to the story arcs of so many characters. At this point, KH3 is going to have to go out of its way to explain and work around problems like why the Restoration Committee isn't working with Ienzo (and possibly AtW) to help Sora. Or why Lea and Isa are meeting at the Twilight Town clock tower, a place that holds no meaning whatsoever for Isa as a character. Or how, indeed, Aqua will regain her armor if she doesn't get it from the Chamber of Repose under Ansem the Wise's lab. It's not just that the absence of Radiant Garden is a bummer, it actually degrades the continuity and emotional logic of this entry within the context of the whole series.
Speaking of Stitch, how nice is it that KH3 gets neither Destiny Islands or Hawai'i. Used to be the general, accepted consensus that we would only get one, and we all made peace with it, but hey. I guess we really can't have everything
@ZJGamer: Your idea would have been good enough for me, especially since it puts a cap on a lot of scenes from the 1,000 Heartless battle (Stitch's appearance there, Ienzo and Xigbar's convo crossed with Xemnas walking down into the chamber just before the Demyx battle). I wouldn't even have cared if Radiant Garden was as small as Atlantica was in KH2 as long as the characters were there. The fact that 100 Acre Wood would've been a huge world tacked onto it would've softened the blow. Sort of the way Mysterious Tower is connected to TT in KH2, so that you get a short interlude with Yensid without it being a full-fledged world of its own.
I don't see the purpose of establishing that back story if there's no intention of going anywhere with it.The only reason I saw radiant garden in bbs, was for back story purposes only, i.e. Kairi, and the somebody's of the organization.
I understand what you're saying, but a fairer compromise would have been the one many of us anticipated during the later stages of KH3's promotion: that there would be no new FF characters outside of the Radiant Garden crew (and possibly DI). I was not happy about that, but I was learning to be comfortable with it. I thought it would have been nice to see a new Olympus cameo in keeping with tradition, but the game could work without it. FF characters inhabiting other original worlds would have been a welcome return to form, too, but having always been a speculative feature I didn't have strongly cemented feelings about it. I did (and still do) want them, but that almost feels like a different discussion entirely. That has to do with atmosphere and tone. It's aesthetic, mostly.Well again in my scenario for Radiant Castle, I'm trying to give Nomura and the development team the benefit of the doubt, and I'm assuming there just wasn't enough resources or time to make Radiant Garden a full fledged world like Twilight Town. So my scenario is just basically taking the castle sections from KH2, adding in the Chamber of Repose and just making it prettier with the unreal engine 4 while trying to put in just enough story to make it somewhat satisfying. In other words I'm trying to create a compromise between what I and a lot of people wanted from Radiant Garden and what may have been technically and developmentally reasonable for the staff.
The lack of the Restoration Committee and playable Radiant Garden is a disappointment for me. I’m sure the story and game can move along without these things just fine, but I do think there was missed creative opportunity here. Also, Radiant Garden not being playable may be a result of not wanting to acknowledge the absence of the FF characters if Nomura was adamant about not including them this time.
The situation reinforces my belief that KH3 isn’t really trying to resolve anything outside of its own original Xehanort plot. Aside from that, I actually believe this game will be looked at as setting the formula for future KH games. Less worlds. Minimal FF involvement. More focus on the Disney aspects. More gameplay variety. Etc.
The question is: is KH3 the right time to shape the look of future KH games or should it have tried to be more in line with the traditions of 1 and 2? I personally won’t know the answer to that until I play the game. It’s possible that in retrospect, I’ll be fine with KH2 having been the soft conclusion for the FF presence in the series as well as KH3’s shift to focus more on the Disney worlds for gameplay and original worlds for story. But I also might end up feeling like KH3 should have been a game that came out in 2013-14, staying more in line with 1 & 2’s traditions to conclude the Xehanort Saga. Then KH4 could have been the departure from the old ways.
Oh, yeah that is quite disappointing to know for sure but I am not surprised... I personally will be continuing with the series so I hope all the people asking about FF at E3 and such was a wake up call to Nomura, but I still think this was the wrong decision. In general, I think its strange how much new in terms of worlds and characters this game tried to incorporate I feel. For the end of the 15 year saga.
To be fair, this shift definitely happened over a decade ago lol. If anything, this game seems more creative with its inclusion of Disney than the series has been doing for a quite a while.
I agree with the sentiment that maybe KH4 was better for random exclusions like this though.
I honestly think this game is too ambitious for its own good. Each world is like going to be playing an individual video game that has its own life and style. I think the Caribbean is going to be one of gaming's history most ambitious attempt at world building, seeing as how it's a massive world inside and already massive video game.
Other than that, I'm not bothered about Squall and the gang not being here, seeing as how KH3 shares the same defect BBS had to handle: a convulated mess of characters that need to be exposed first than the FF characters.
What about Tifa? Cause as aside from being somewhat a plot device for the Cloud/Sephiroth subplot and temporarily helping out in the battle of Hollow Bastion all she did was just go on a "Goose Chase" just looking for Cloud but nothing else. Even when she asked Sora that she was looking for someone with "Spiky hair", basically both SDG were blissfully unaware that she was referring to Cloud. :/Hey, don't you ignore the context about it being funny. KH was charming to me because of the marriage of FF and Disney so of course I'm sad that we don't get any of them, but they DO have a lot of original characters we may see permanently removed from the series that can make room for more FF characters. If we do a more in-depth analysis:
Cloud, Leon, and Cid were the only major players from KH 1 and 2 that really did anything for the plot.
Sephiroth was just a secret boss in 1 and a sub plot in 2 because he's a popular counter-character to Cloud.
Yuffie and Aerith were kinda just there to fill up the roster and Tifa was an additive just to sprinkle in a little more.
Tidus, Wakka, and Selphie were also sorta just there to fill up the roster because the only one who returned again in KH2 was Selphie and otherwise they're an afterthought to the heroes.
Seifer was the only one in KH2 that was really relevant because he was supposed to be this opposing force for Roxas, however Vivi was pretty much new to the gang and didn't seem to have his groove yet and Rai and Fuu were useless in 2.
Setzer was just a plot device, why was he ever even included other than 6 representation is beyond me.
Auron was relevant to the original plot of Olympus Coliseum, but could have been replaced by any other character.
Yuna, Rikku, and Paine were awful and I really wish they hadn't been added to the game at all.
So with that in mind, if they decide to go with a more relevant FF plot or new FF characters because of the removed characters, I'd like to see:
Leon going back to the name Squall and a plot involving him looking for Rinoa and maybe a confrontation with an adult Seifer who found a grudge against Squall for some reason. Maybe a time displacement situation where him and the gang had been lost from their world as kids but wake up again as adults after TT disappears (if we don't see it again in the most recent sequel) and he remembers his anger towards him.
Cloud and Sephiroth shouldn't appear. Putting it simply, they should be wrapped up in 3 if they aren't already.
Wakka and Tidus I'd like to see as grown up too. Give them outfits that match their FF X suits and maybe give them a reason to be searching for something Sin-esque (maybe a heartless terrorizing the Islands?) and on a quest to stop it.
Noctis and crew, I want all four of them to show up and be bros with Sora. Maybe in a situation where Donald and Goofy aren't available so they have to help you reunite. I hope they keep the multiple party member dynamic for future titles.
Lightning only, as a 13 rep because she was also a popular character and I could see her just fitting in just about anywhere. Maybe her and Caius could be the new Cloud and Sephiroth secret boss subplot thing.
That would've been awesome for Stitch and his connection to Terra from BBS, in addition to how he's earned as a summon link.Ienzo asks Sora to use his Keyblade to unlock the chamber. So Sora, Donald, and Goofy head down to the Heartless factory and find Experiment 626 battling another group of enemies. After defeating the enemies, they all head down to the basement and find the chamber has already been unlocked. They head inside and find Terra-Xehanort retrieving Aqua's armor.
Experiment 626 recognizes him, but senses something is wrong about Terra. Terra-Xehanort doesn't stay along and vanishes in a corridor of darkness. Sora promises Experiment 626 they will save Terra and this is where Experiment 626 becomes available as a summon/link.
Except all the original characters are already known. Nobody's being introduced (as far as we know). And story could have been told in RG as much as any other world.Other than that, I'm not bothered about Squall and the gang not being here, seeing as how KH3 shares the same defect BBS had to handle: a convulated mess of characters that need to be exposed first than the FF characters.
What about Tifa? Cause as aside from being somewhat a plot device for the Cloud/Sephiroth subplot and temporarily helping out in the battle of Hollow Bastion all she did was just go on a "Goose Chase" just looking for Cloud but nothing else. Even when she asked Sora that she was looking for someone with "Spiky hair", basically both SDG were blissfully unaware that she was referring to Cloud. :/
Come on Sora who else had spikier hair besides you?
That would've been awesome for Stitch and his connection to Terra from BBS, in addition to how he's earned as a summon link.
Hope we get to see him again in the next game.
Oh Okay, I was unaware she was in the listing the first I read it.I figured I'd forget one lol yeah she wasn't doing much of anything for the plot of KH2 either so she could easily not appear.
EDIT: I didn't forget her, she was a side not with Yuffie and Aerith.