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The English dialogue isn’t doing the characters justice...



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Keyblade07

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The English dialogue changed many stuff in kingdom hearts and many of them were not that important to mention but still I noticed some characters suffered from this The English dialogue make the characters say something they did not say in the actual jp dialogue like for example how Sora say to xehanort “A good leader knows that fate is beyond his control and accepts that” like seriously Sora isn’t the smartest but the English dialogue making him sound dumber, same with Terra, the guy in jp sound soo wise and reliable and even telling aqua to calm down in 2.0, Aqua is the wisest of the three no question but the English dialogue just make terra basically like knuckles from sonic, when in jp he really talk in a wise way at least better then the English one I could list many characters but I think you get the picture, my question is why? Why do they change the dialogue as they please?

Overall that’s my opinion on the matter.
 
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disney233

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The English dialogue changed many stuff in kingdom hearts and many of them were not that important to mention but still I noticed some characters suffered from this The English dialogue make the characters say something they did not say in the actual jp dialogue like for example how Sora say to xehanort “A good leader knows that fate is beyond his control and accepts that” like seriously Sora isn’t that the smartest but the English dialogue making him sound stupid, same with Terra, the guy in jp sound soo wise and reliable and even telling aqua to calm down in 2.0, Aqua is the wisest of the three no question but the English dialogue just make terra basically like knuckles from sonic, when in jp he really talk in a wise way at least better then the English one I could list many characters but I think you get the picture, my question is why? Why do they change the dialogue as they please?

Overall that’s my opinion on the matter.
Japanese Donald & Goofy exists.........take me back.

That out of the way, I do admit, I'd say....at most post KH2 the voice acting on the English side is a bit...lackluster at best. There are those who really put their heart in like Roxas, but then there's...the TAV trio. Most animes do replace what was actually said in the Japanese version, and that's probably because...I'm not sure, either for more impact or there's a language block to try to translate it over to English. At the end of the day, it really depends on what's going on in the voice direction over there.

There are moments where the delivery is a bit lackluster even on the Disney side of things. For example, Goofy saying "DONALD dooooooooooooon't" felt a bit...weird I guess. So, I'd honestly say it's a voice direction problem.
 

Keyblade07

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Japanese Donald & Goofy exists.........take me back.

That out of the way, I do admit, I'd say....at most post KH2 the voice acting on the English side is a bit...lackluster at best. There are those who really put their heart in like Roxas, but then there's...the TAV trio. Most animes do replace what was actually said in the Japanese version, and that's probably because...I'm not sure, either for more impact or there's a language block to try to translate it over to English. At the end of the day, it really depends on what's going on in the voice direction over there.

There are moments where the delivery is a bit lackluster even on the Disney side of things. For example, Goofy saying "DONALD dooooooooooooon't" felt a bit...weird I guess. So, I'd honestly say it's a voice direction problem.
Aqua voice did a decent job in bbs but after that in the secret ep and beyond she was half asleep lol, plus the only kairi for me is hayden, Xion voice actress is Good as Xion but as kairi she just doesn’t sound like the kairi I know from kh1 and kh2, overall the voice actors need to step up their game and at least stick to the original context.
 

Sign

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KH3 has its fair share of fumbles with regards to localization, but good translations are never going to be directly 1:1 because that's just not how things work. You need to take liberties and make adjustments as necessary because certain nuances, quirks, terms, phrases, etc. are not always going to have an exact equivalent between languages.
 

OneDandelion

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It is a combination of language barrier issues, translation issues, and cultural differences.

1.) Many words do not have a direct English translation and sometimes it is necessary to change or add wording to obtain the same effect. The problem is that occasionally it is difficult to do this without making dialogue sound awkward.

2.) Translation issues: Words in Japan very often have multiple meanings or are composed of characters that expand upon its meaning - because of this Japanese is a very versatile and artistically expressive language, but it is not very precise because having multiple meanings leads to multiple interpretations. English is the opposite, it is a very precise language and it often takes a lot of words to express a deep thought. So during translation not only is some of the intended meaning often lost but it can also be misinterpreted.

3.)Cultural differences: this is simple - some ideas that are valued highly in Japan are not as valued by western audiences. So instead of directly translating it is changed so that western audiences can relate more effectively.

Typically translators do a very good job translating the core message which is why Japanese anime and games are so loved in the west, but it is an impossible task to translate anything 100% from Japanese to English without an explanation behind the more nuanced concepts.
 

Keyblade07

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It’s not just about the story dialogue but also the English dialogue gave the characters a different vibe from how they truly are in the jp version.
 

AR829038

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The English dialogue changed many stuff in kingdom hearts and many of them were not that important to mention but still I noticed some characters suffered from this The English dialogue make the characters say something they did not say in the actual jp dialogue like for example how Sora say to xehanort “A good leader knows that fate is beyond his control and accepts that” like seriously Sora isn’t the smartest but the English dialogue making him sound dumber, same with Terra, the guy in jp sound soo wise and reliable and even telling aqua to calm down in 2.0, Aqua is the wisest of the three no question but the English dialogue just make terra basically like knuckles from sonic, when in jp he really talk in a wise way at least better then the English one I could list many characters but I think you get the picture, my question is why? Why do they change the dialogue as they please?

Overall that’s my opinion on the matter.
Part of it is definitely cultural/translation difficulties, but I would also add technical problems as a potential cause. The way characters are animated, and the way their mouths are animated when speaking in Japanese animation is distinctively catered to Japanese cadences and gesticulations, not just lip movement. The localizers of the Kingdom Hearts series have always gone the extra mile to try and re-animate characters' lip movements to better approximate the English dialogue, and to an extent this works, but it can only fix so much. There's a different rhythm and tempo to Japanese speech that can come off much slower than English speech patterns, and in translation this can give the voice actors a difficult time, as they are usually forced to stretch English dialogue over unnaturally long periods of time in order to match the original Japanese speed, which can make English actors sound slow, awkward, wooden, or even somewhat dumb. Likewise, there are also problems with Japanese gesturing. Characters in Japanese animation are animated much more economically, and that's because the Japanese language and Japanese people in general are not quite as emotive as many Western speakers are with their body language. When applying English dialogue to a character animated in a Japanese style, the match-up can sometimes seem ill-paired, because dialogue which English voice actors would ordinarily be able to go heavier on with Western-style animators find themselves having to deliver lines at a more restricted register than what might be optimal for the appropriate conveyance of emotion. So, there's a lot of problems with language translation, but there are also a lot of issues on just the animation and technical side of things as well.
 

Veevee

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Ah, the good ol' sub vs dub debate. I'll throw in my two cents.
Personally, I'm always a fan of dub even if it's different from the source material. Hearing someone talk a foreign language and simultaneously reading a translation of what that person just said feels kinda off to me - yeah, I might understand a few words and at best the basic sentence structure, but it's basically like someone is chanting magic words and another person keeps telling me what he's probably saying.
For dub, I don't care too much about exact accuracy - especially in a series like Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, it might be nicer if Terra sounds more like a sage, but honestly, even trying to imagine it, I don't feel like it fits his actions. A lot of stuff he did in BBS can be described as "very gullible" at best, like beating up KIDS because some shady guy with a hook for a hand claims they're after his treasure, so if he was to say something super sage-y while randomly whacking at them would really put me off. Dude's a late teenager or young twen, let's not forget that.

I like dub when it transports a situation appropriately and evokes feelings. It doesn't matter to me if your shock is voiced in very high or slightly lower pitch or if you say amazing instead of fantastic, if it gets the situation right, it's fine. Personally, I love a lot of sentences in the dub, a few examples:
"Aqua. Ven. One day I will set this right."
"Xemnas. A heart is more than just anger or hate - it's full of all kinds of feelings! Don't you remember?"
"Now I can be one ... with darkness ... "

Yeah, some characters might not have the best voice acting, but I generally find them fitting. Aqua for example doesn't have the most expressive face / gestures - to be honest, I only remember a few instances where she even smiled a little or changed her expression - so I always felt her rather cold / blunt (and in 0.2 slightly weak and faint) voice acting fit the situations she was in. It also differentiates her a little from the "usual" japanese high-pitched full of energy voice acting and makes her a little more mature / calm.
 

Keyblade07

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Ah, the good ol' sub vs dub debate. I'll throw in my two cents.
Personally, I'm always a fan of dub even if it's different from the source material. Hearing someone talk a foreign language and simultaneously reading a translation of what that person just said feels kinda off to me - yeah, I might understand a few words and at best the basic sentence structure, but it's basically like someone is chanting magic words and another person keeps telling me what he's probably saying.
For dub, I don't care too much about exact accuracy - especially in a series like Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, it might be nicer if Terra sounds more like a sage, but honestly, even trying to imagine it, I don't feel like it fits his actions. A lot of stuff he did in BBS can be described as "very gullible" at best, like beating up KIDS because some shady guy with a hook for a hand claims they're after his treasure, so if he was to say something super sage-y while randomly whacking at them would really put me off. Dude's a late teenager or young twen, let's not forget that.

I like dub when it transports a situation appropriately and evokes feelings. It doesn't matter to me if your shock is voiced in very high or slightly lower pitch or if you say amazing instead of fantastic, if it gets the situation right, it's fine. Personally, I love a lot of sentences in the dub, a few examples:
"Aqua. Ven. One day I will set this right."
"Xemnas. A heart is more than just anger or hate - it's full of all kinds of feelings! Don't you remember?"
"Now I can be one ... with darkness ... "

Yeah, some characters might not have the best voice acting, but I generally find them fitting. Aqua for example doesn't have the most expressive face / gestures - to be honest, I only remember a few instances where she even smiled a little or changed her expression - so I always felt her rather cold / blunt (and in 0.2 slightly weak and faint) voice acting fit the situations she was in. It also differentiates her a little from the "usual" japanese high-pitched full of energy voice acting and makes her a little more mature / calm.
Terra and Aqua are young adults actually buut I respect your opinion:)
 

AmaryllisMoth

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It also differentiates her a little from the "usual" japanese high-pitched full of energy voice acting and makes her a little more mature / calm.

While I get that Japanese voice acting can be often like you claim, I really wouldn't call Toyoguchi's voice acting high pitched or high energy. I'm assuming that you've heard it, of course. The biggest issue that I have with the BBS dialogue is often not the caliber of the voice but that it seems the English actors don't quite emote as much at times.

Hearing someone talk a foreign language and simultaneously reading a translation of what that person just said feels kinda off to me

I totally get that, but part of the problem with dubs vs subs is that unless you are proficient in Japanese it is always going to involve translation somehow and your understanding of the situation/characters is still going to be fully dependent on said translation/script. Whatever voice is coming out of the characters doesn't make a huge difference to that.

So the problem still always comes back to how good is the localization and does it actually accurately capture the same intended feeling of the original language.

Personally I generally really like the localization up to KH2, Coded is fine, BBS is mostly fine and 3D is okay enough, though has more problems for me personally (though I will admit they tried SO SO hard on those dreameater names I gotta give them some credit for that, despite the puns working so much better in Japanese). However a lot of that is literally just the script itself, and while the script is better in Japanese, it's still...not that great.

KH3 had a few issues with the localization at more crucial points (which I know caused some confusion), but was generally fine and at times I think made a few very good decisions about when to NOT directly translate.

For example, one huge difference is in the scene after Kairi and Sora are escaping the dark together right before the first time reset in the graveyard. In Japanese Sora straight up tells Kairi she's "strong", whereas the translation opted for him saying she "made him feel strong". I think this was a good decision considering the cultural difference that people have over the definition of "strength" that I still see people repeating even now about how "weak and useless" Kairi is even though she literally saves Sora's life but hey. I think because in the west there seems to be much more of a reluctance to accept strength that isn't bashing stuff in the face. (or so it seems to me, sorry if that offends anyone). While I would have preferred if Sora was able to have the focus be on Kairi as it is in Japanese, I completely understand why they went that direction. It helps western audiences appreciate the sentiment rather than immediately raging out like BUT SHE ISN'T STRANGTH!!?!??

Funnily enough I've always sort of wanted to make a bunch of videos that breaks down the localization for all the games in chronological order and talk about what works and what doesn't but I had no idea if that sort of thing would actually be popular enough to bother with.

Overall I think the localization are generally pretty good most of the time, but I still personally believe (J)Sora is always going to be my favorite Sora because he's just that much more...naturally upbeat sounding? I dunno. Like, not trying to bash HJO or anything, and maybe some people prefer this as adding to depth of character but sometimes HJO sounds like he is only "trying" to be happy (while struggling with something else) whereas Miyu often just sounds...happy.

And a special place in my heart will always remain for the Spanish dub of KH2. Never fails to make me laugh at how the length of what they want to say vs the time they have to say it often does not match up and the amazing way they roll their R's when shouting Rrrrrrrrriku!!
 

Sign

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Funnily enough I've always sort of wanted to make a bunch of videos that breaks down the localization for all the games in chronological order and talk about what works and what doesn't but I had no idea if that sort of thing would actually be popular enough to bother with.
I can't speak for everyone but I'd be in full support of this. Sounds absolutely fascinating and super informative!
 

Keyblade07

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Judging by what you learned it from, that's probably going to be a no.
Judging by how you think you know me and how I view it tells me I should not pay much attention to you, I know Japanese and the characters in Japanese (not only voice actors) have different vibe to them if you don’t understand what I’m saying then fine no problem I don’t except everyone to agree with this thread:3 anyhow I don’t like starting a debate here so don’t expect a reply.
 

OneDandelion

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Funnily enough I've always sort of wanted to make a bunch of videos that breaks down the localization for all the games in chronological order and talk about what works and what doesn't but I had no idea if that sort of thing would actually be popular enough to bother with.
This would be awesome. I absolutely love the english voice actors, but the ability to understand the nuance in games/anime/manga/lightnovels is a huge motivation for me learning Japanese and Kingdom Hearts is near the top of my list.
 

AmaryllisMoth

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This would be awesome. I absolutely love the english voice actors, but the ability to understand the nuance in games/anime/manga/lightnovels is a huge motivation for me learning Japanese and Kingdom Hearts is near the top of my list.

Aw, thanks! That actually gives me a lot of motivation to really get into it. If I do end up starting a series I'll be sure to link it somewhere on the forums.
 

Mirby

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Judging by how you think you know me and how I view it tells me I should not pay much attention to you, I know Japanese and the characters in Japanese (not only voice actors) have different vibe to them if you don’t understand what I’m saying then fine no problem I don’t except everyone to agree with this thread:3 anyhow I don’t like starting a debate here so don’t expect a reply.
That wasn't an attack on you lol

That was pointing out that anime is not the best source to learn Japanese from. There's plenty of nuance and colloquialisms used in anime that make it a lot more casual and without taking actual classes or learning from actual sources of learning, there is a lot that can be misinterpreted and misunderstood about it. The point of that initial post was that without fully understanding the language there is a lot that can be missed. There is just as much bad acting in English as there is in Japanese but without fully understanding one it can be hard to make a proper judgment about good and bad acting. That's what they were getting at.
 

Keyblade07

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That wasn't an attack on you lol

That was pointing out that anime is not the best source to learn Japanese from. There's plenty of nuance and colloquialisms used in anime that make it a lot more casual and without taking actual classes or learning from actual sources of learning, there is a lot that can be misinterpreted and misunderstood about it. The point of that initial post was that without fully understanding the language there is a lot that can be missed. There is just as much bad acting in English as there is in Japanese but without fully understanding one it can be hard to make a proper judgment about good and bad acting. That's what they were getting at.
Didn’t really see it as an attack but felt like it will start a debate on who is right and who is wrong, even tho he/she didn’t imply it but at least that’s how I saw it I’m just not big fan of debates it just never ends.

Ah, the good ol' sub vs dub debate. I'll throw in my two cents.
Personally, I'm always a fan of dub even if it's different from the source material. Hearing someone talk a foreign language and simultaneously reading a translation of what that person just said feels kinda off to me - yeah, I might understand a few words and at best the basic sentence structure, but it's basically like someone is chanting magic words and another person keeps telling me what he's probably saying.
For dub, I don't care too much about exact accuracy - especially in a series like Kingdom Hearts. Yeah, it might be nicer if Terra sounds more like a sage, but honestly, even trying to imagine it, I don't feel like it fits his actions. A lot of stuff he did in BBS can be described as "very gullible" at best, like beating up KIDS because some shady guy with a hook for a hand claims they're after his treasure, so if he was to say something super sage-y while randomly whacking at them would really put me off. Dude's a late teenager or young twen, let's not forget that.

I like dub when it transports a situation appropriately and evokes feelings. It doesn't matter to me if your shock is voiced in very high or slightly lower pitch or if you say amazing instead of fantastic, if it gets the situation right, it's fine. Personally, I love a lot of sentences in the dub, a few examples:
"Aqua. Ven. One day I will set this right."
"Xemnas. A heart is more than just anger or hate - it's full of all kinds of feelings! Don't you remember?"
"Now I can be one ... with darkness ... "

Yeah, some characters might not have the best voice acting, but I generally find them fitting. Aqua for example doesn't have the most expressive face / gestures - to be honest, I only remember a few instances where she even smiled a little or changed her expression - so I always felt her rather cold / blunt (and in 0.2 slightly weak and faint) voice acting fit the situations she was in. It also differentiates her a little from the "usual" japanese high-pitched full of energy voice acting and makes her a little more mature / calm.
Thing is when eraqus entrusted the role of taking care of ven and aqua shows how reliable and smart he is, however the English version made him sound less smart then ven and aqua, that’s why many are annoyed Eraqus asked terra to take care of aqua cause they don’t believe terra is as responsible as aqua, welp cause they didn’t play the jp version in my opinion.
 
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