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News ► Otocoto reveals history of how Kingdom Hearts got approved by Eisner



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Oracle Spockanort

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Kinda skimmed through, but how does this align with the elevator pitch?

This is about 3-4 years after the elevator pitch.

Disney Japan had nobody in their offices to actually grant Squaresoft the license to make a Disney game. Disney Interactive didn't have the executive power to do it either. For years they assisted Squaresoft in the development of the game but they never actually attempted to get the final approval for it. Nobody at Squaresoft was even aware that the game wasn't approved since they were in constant contact with Disney Japan and the USA branch of Disney Interactive.

Utsumi was hired in 2000 and informed about this, and it wasn't until what seems to be Fall 2001 that the game was officially approved.
 

Face My Fears

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You missed the point. Disney was only so protective of Frozen because it had proven itself and become a worldwide phenomenon, even ranking in the top 3 best grossing films ever in Japan. SE couldn't have known it would become so successful when they chose this film for KH3. Had it achieved, say, Tangled or BH6-level success, Disney wouldn't have had so much red tape around it.
OK, well then... Nomura pick movies after they are released, so they can see how the audience reacts (and judge whether Disney will prohibit actually using the world).
 

MATGSY

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The real solution is to pick more of the older films and less of the newer ones 8D
But those aren't the new hotness that gets headlines. A Robin Hood or Sword in the Stone world isn't exactly gonna get people jumping for joy.
 

Zettaflare

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But those aren't the new hotness that gets headlines. A Robin Hood or Sword in the Stone world isn't exactly gonna get people jumping for joy.
Couldn't you just put those Disney worlds in the smaller, non numbered titles? The big Disney films can be used for KH4, KH5, etc
 

Oracle Spockanort

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But those aren't the new hotness that gets headlines. A Robin Hood or Sword in the Stone world isn't exactly gonna get people jumping for joy.

Well, if those rumors pan out, Robin Hood and Sword in the Stone are supposed to be getting remakes. It’s easy, baked-in marketing.

Also the smaller titles can get away with smaller films...and they can still sell something like KH4 if it has 1-2 older classics while still having a bunch of popular modern releases.

Nomura has already said they choose what they want to have in the games. For KH3 they intentionally chose newer films, but that doesn’t have to be the case forevermore.
 

Face My Fears

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Well, if those rumors pan out, Robin Hood and Sword in the Stone are supposed to be getting remakes. It’s easy, baked-in marketing.

Also the smaller titles can get away with smaller films...and they can still sell something like KH4 if it has 1-2 older classics while still having a bunch of popular modern releases.

Nomura has already said they choose what they want to have in the games. For KH3 they intentionally chose newer films, but that doesn’t have to be the case forevermore.
I don't think the world choices really sell KH games. If that were the case, I wouldn't have touched KH3D (except for Hunchback, which wasn't even done justice).

I feel like Nomura should lean towards having a nice balance of CGI/classically animated/"out-there" (like The Caribbean, Tron, Halloween Town, Steamboat Willy, Fantasia etc) choices. Granted, KH3's "hottest" and most recent film was Big Hero 6, which was released 5 years before the game's release so I think that should justify that the films selected don't have to be the newest films. Tangled was selected and that was released about a decade before KH3, about the same length of time between Aladdin and KH1.

At this point, because of Disney's massive library now, just filling KH with the newest stuff would feel like a waste and a blatant/cruel ad to fans. World selection should come down to this: film's connection to main plot/Sora (or whoever is the protagonist in that game) and how fun/different the world will be to actually play in. I know Disney wants to advertise their properties non-stop and KH is basically us paying for that ad, but they need to take a step back and remember that this is a game and it's supposed to be fun. Thankfully, KH3 didn't go in the direction of advertising the newest films to us, but I sincerely hope that is not the direction for future titles.

I also don't like this negative opinion people have towards older worlds that have been revisited several times before like Agrabah, NeverLand, Halloween Town being in future titles - but that's a different thread.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I don't think the world choices really sell KH games. If that were the case, I wouldn't have touched KH3D (except for Hunchback, which wasn't even done justice).

I feel like Nomura should lean towards having a nice balance of CGI/classically animated/"out-there" (like The Caribbean, Tron, Halloween Town, Steamboat Willy, Fantasia etc) choices. Granted, KH3's "hottest" and most recent film was Big Hero 6, which was released 5 years before the game's release so I think that should justify that the films selected don't have to be the newest films. Tangled was selected and that was released about a decade before KH3, about the same length of time between Aladdin and KH1.

At this point, because of Disney's massive library now, just filling KH with the newest stuff would feel like a waste and a blatant/cruel ad to fans. World selection should come down to this: film's connection to main plot/Sora (or whoever is the protagonist in that game) and how fun/different the world will be to actually play in. I know Disney wants to advertise their properties non-stop and KH is basically us paying for that ad, but they need to take a step back and remember that this is a game and it's supposed to be fun. Thankfully, KH3 didn't go in the direction of advertising the newest films to us, but I sincerely hope that is not the direction for future titles.

I also don't like this negative opinion people have towards older worlds that have been revisited several times before like Agrabah, NeverLand, Halloween Town being in future titles - but that's a different thread.

Oh, I don't disagree at all. The KH worlds have never been the selling factor to me. I just want to have fun with the worlds and I hope they are based on films I love or fit the theme of the game.

I think the point MATGSY was making was that the films in KH3 were chosen because they were modern releases and had more active audiences for them at the time they were chosen for KH3. In the case of a few (and intentional or not), they happened to also coincide with active projects going on at Disney (i.e. Monsters Inc has a TV series in development, Tangled had an ongoing TV series, Frozen 2 was in development, Toy Story 4 was in development, Big Hero 6 has an ongoing TV series).

I would also prefer if they took the time explore all of Disney's massive library of films and TV shows. If we looked at this from a marketing standpoint, featuring older properties might bring attention to them and draw attention to them again. With Disney+, old stuff can easily be revisited and gain traction among audiences again.

I think certain worlds should be allowed to be retired, but others should be revisited if they feel there is a story there. Agrabah has its reputation because they keep repeating it over and over and over and over with that damn song and it's getting exhausting. This opinion could easily be changed if they just finally did King of Thieves or drew inspiration from the television series.

So essentially I agree with you xD I would love to revisit old worlds, but only if there is a story worth doing. I don't want to see what they did to Agrabah happen with any other world.
 

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This is a great thread... kinda reminds me of Mario + Rabbids which is another insane crossover, somehow got green-lit and turned out to be a critical darling.

I think they need to repeat that recipe with the next KH main title. Go years into development without Disney's rules, then when it's too late ask them permission and hope that they rather greenlight whatever was done over cancelling and redoing.
I feel like 2020 is so different than 2000 that this would be a horrible idea.

Kinda skimmed through, but how does this align with the elevator pitch?
I wish we would someday get a "deep dive" (no pun intended) on the history of KH because I feel like there's still so much unknown.

Mario 64 recently had beta assets leaked... imagine if one day we get to see the build where Donald and Goofy wore their normal clothes and Sora was the human/lion hybrid. 😲

Basically to answer your question, the TL;DR from my understanding is an employee from each branch (Square & Disney) met in an elevator and were like "Kingdom Hearts" so development began with no approval; Eisner looked at the project years(?) later when he was visiting Tokyo DisneySea and was just like "keep it up" which they considered approval and the rest is history.

Maybe if Shigeru Miyamoto and George Lucas met in an elevator we could get something equally as astounding. 😄

Anyway, I think it's really interesting to see how KH was born. I remember seeing it for the first time advertised and just being in awe, like I couldn't process what I was seeing. It seemed like something completely unbelievable.
The messed up thing for me is as much as I love KH, I truly can't remember how I discovered it; I believe it was from the guidebook at the library right around launch, and then as a Disney fan and non-PS2 owner my mind went absolutely berserk trying to imagine what the game was like.
 

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But those aren't the new hotness that gets headlines. A Robin Hood or Sword in the Stone world isn't exactly gonna get people jumping for joy.
I mean honestly the fact that every instalment regardless of console has sold pretty well shows KH fans are pretty decent force. If they wanted to go that route I don't think it would be that much of an issue
 

Face My Fears

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Oh, I don't disagree at all. The KH worlds have never been the selling factor to me. I just want to have fun with the worlds and I hope they are based on films I love or fit the theme of the game.

I think the point MATGSY was making was that the films in KH3 were chosen because they were modern releases and had more active audiences for them at the time they were chosen for KH3. In the case of a few (and intentional or not), they happened to also coincide with active projects going on at Disney (i.e. Monsters Inc has a TV series in development, Tangled had an ongoing TV series, Frozen 2 was in development, Toy Story 4 was in development, Big Hero 6 has an ongoing TV series).

I would also prefer if they took the time explore all of Disney's massive library of films and TV shows. If we looked at this from a marketing standpoint, featuring older properties might bring attention to them and draw attention to them again. With Disney+, old stuff can easily be revisited and gain traction among audiences again.

I think certain worlds should be allowed to be retired, but others should be revisited if they feel there is a story there. Agrabah has its reputation because they keep repeating it over and over and over and over with that damn song and it's getting exhausting. This opinion could easily be changed if they just finally did King of Thieves or drew inspiration from the television series.

So essentially I agree with you xD I would love to revisit old worlds, but only if there is a story worth doing. I don't want to see what they did to Agrabah happen with any other world.
Was it confirmed anywhere that the worlds in KH3 were chosen because they were relatively "modern" or I guess mostly CGI films? I remember reading/hearing something about the worlds being chosen because the teams that worked on them were still around and that allowed them access to assets to help recreate the worlds more accurately. Seeing the CGI worlds basically looking like the films was amazing. I remember I happened to be roaming through Arendelle when a friend (who doesn't play games at all) visited and saw my screen, she was like "why does this game look exactly like the movie?"

So kudos to the team for their hard work on that front, but it also makes me really eager to see the traditionally animated worlds in modern day graphics. I feel like no world is "overused" since we haven't visited one of those worlds (like Agrabah) in like a decade. Also, I feel like those worlds actually had a more special bond between Sora/Disney character than what we got with some in KH3, so just revisiting would be the fun of the world. On top of that, they can be blank slates to have main story be the focus of the world - somewhere like Agrabah already has seeds placed in it, Jafar worked with Maleficent and Jasmine was a princess of heart. Wouldn't it be amazing if Nomura pulled something crazy like Maleficent selecting those worlds for a backup plan that she's going to unleash in future games?

Also consider the fact that (unfortunately) they're leaning towards giant heartless boss fights in Disney worlds. If that is the (again unfortunate) trend moving forward, then why not use worlds that we already killed the main villain in? Mix in places like Land of Dragons, Halloween Town etc. for giant heartless fights, then bring in newer worlds that WILL have Disney bosses.

Oh, and last point - I feel like Agrabah was just done to death because it's a super easy world to visit and NOT have to explain stuff about Aladdin/Jasmine, same goes with Wonderland. They also provided "different" world designs easily.

It's crazy to think how we almost lived in a world without Kingdom Hearts, but I'm so glad we don't TTwTT
I don't think I could even imagine it
Thankfully, that's The World That Never Was :p
 

Sign

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At the very least, I think it'd be beneficial if someone were to go through all the interviews and put together an updated retelling of KH's origins. This story has been told so many times by so many people who keep introducing new angles; it's gotten too messy over the years lol
 

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I finally took the time to read through this, and i'm blown away. What a neat piece of history! Especially for someone who is a massive nerd for Disney's history lol.

Honestly, Eisner approving the project is both hilarious to think about and surprising. I would have expected him to turn it down given how infamous of a CEO he was. But Disney was in such a weird place back then that many projects had to be a coin toss I guess.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I finally took the time to read through this, and i'm blown away. What a neat piece of history! Especially for someone who is a massive nerd for Disney's history lol.

Honestly, Eisner approving the project is both hilarious to think about and surprising. I would have expected him to turn it down given how infamous of a CEO he was. But Disney was in such a weird place back then that many projects had to be a coin toss I guess.

Well, you aren't alone there. Everybody assumed he would turn it down as well.

Yes, Eisner was honestly an unpredictable man.
 

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I should note that people were very afraid of Eisner back then. He was running the company into the ground with how he had to be hyper-involved with everything that was going on. He was respected and admired, but he could make or break a project.

Disney Japan and Disney Interactive helping Squaresoft develop Kingdom Hearts but not actually going to Eisner for approval for years sounds like they were too scared to approach Eisner to get it approved knowing it was an unconventional game.

Also, it makes sense why KH1 is a bit of a different beast from the other games (besides CoM, but it probably got away with everything it did because it was a game for a handheld which wouldn't have received the same level of scrutiny as other games back then). KH1 literally did not have the full rule-book thrown at it.

That is very interesting. Eisner was practically feared by many at Disney that it was a miracle that Kingdom Hearts actually came out. I also wish that they stuck with KH1 format for the series but that is just my opinion.
 
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