How does Santa Claus factor into the lore?

[Soldier]

Hello,

Okay, this is a topic that is very appropriate given the time this is being made (In December) so I thought I'd discuss it. Everyone understand? alright.
So we all know that Christmas town and Santa Claus exist in the KH universe, as we saw this in KH 2. It is apparent that he isn't limited to JUST Halloween Town, as his list includes Sora, Donald and Goofy (except Sora is on the naughty list for spreading the rumor that Santa didn't exist? apparently), characters that live on far flung worlds. From this we can establish a few things
-Christmas is celebrated in more worlds than just Halloween Town, whether or not that means the religion of Christianity is as widespread is up for debate.
-If Santa Claus exists, then reason comes to stand he is the one delivering the presents. I'm not going into the illogical speed he'd have to go to to deliver presents to everyone in the world in a single night, but considering the fact that his route is now GALACTIC sized, he'd have to move pretty fast.
-Furthermore, if Santa has a route that goes beyond Halloween Town, then that must mean he needs a method to get past the thick barriers that surrounded the worlds prior to KH 1.

This begs the question: How does he do it?
you decide.

 

[Zettaflare]

Might just be a special ability Santa has

Or alternatively the universe of KH bends reality in order to give Santa the power to break the barriers and deliver presents to all the good children and older people who still believe in him(sorry Sora) across worlds.

 

[Soaked_Pancakes]

Dark Seeker Santa Claus obviously.

Who else could the Master of Masters be?

 

[Soldier]

Dark Seeker Santa Claus obviously.

Who else could the Master of Masters be?

If that were the twist, then It'd be on par with making Dr. Finklestein Oogie Boogie at the end of the film levels of absurdity (props if you get that reference).

 

[Face My Fears]

Hello,

Okay, this is a topic that is very appropriate given the time this is being made (In December) so I thought I'd discuss it. Everyone understand? alright.
So we all know that Christmas town and Santa Claus exist in the KH universe, as we saw this in KH 2. It is apparent that he isn't limited to JUST Halloween Town, as his list includes Sora, Donald and Goofy (except Sora is on the naughty list for spreading the rumor that Santa didn't exist? apparently), characters that live on far flung worlds. From this we can establish a few things
-Christmas is celebrated in more worlds than just Halloween Town, whether or not that means the religion of Christianity is as widespread is up for debate.
-If Santa Claus exists, then reason comes to stand he is the one delivering the presents. I'm not going into the illogical speed he'd have to go to to deliver presents to everyone in the world in a single night, but considering the fact that his route is now GALACTIC sized, he'd have to move pretty fast.
-Furthermore, if Santa has a route that goes beyond Halloween Town, then that must mean he needs a method to get past the thick barriers that surrounded the worlds prior to KH 1.

This begs the question: How does he do it?
you decide.

Well if we go with what we know in the film and apply it to KH, there is a "human world" connected to Christmas Town. Something similar can be said about the doors in Monstropolis.

I think we can go off of what we know about the worlds - they used to be connected, but are broken up into individual worlds. Maybe some worlds are still connected (like Monstropolis/"human world"). Maybe the "human world" that Sandy Klawz visits is simply a part of Halloween Town/Christmas Town, all within that one world?

Sandy knowing about Sora, Donald, and Goofy is interesting. Perhaps he has a way of travelling worlds and researching worlds? I mean Jafar, Ursula, Captain Hook, Oogie Boogie, and Hades used non-Gummi Ship/corridor of darkness methods of travelling worlds.

But now that you bring this up, I think it was a missed opportunity for someone post KH3 to visit Christmas Town and ask if Sandy Klawz could help locate Sora or knew what he was doing (since Sandy has knowledge of whether one does good or bad deeds). It would have been such a surprise if Sandy joined the Fairy Godmother to help us find Sora.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

Might just be a special ability Santa has

Or alternatively the universe of KH bends reality in order to give Santa the power to break the barriers and deliver presents to all the good children and older people who still believe in him(sorry Sora) across worlds.

I mean, Sora saved Christmas Town, and he clearly believes in Santa again.

So pretty sure he's automatically back on the Nice List post-KH2 Halloween Town.

If anything Riku's still on the Naughty List because he prolly still don't believe in the Jolly Fat Tomato

 

[Zettaflare]

I mean, Sora saved Christmas Town, and he clearly believes in Santa again.

So pretty sure he's automatically back on the Nice List post-KH2 Halloween Town.

If anything Riku's still on the Naughty List because he prolly still don't believe in the Jolly Fat Tomato

Who knows? Maybe Santa doesn't give second chances, lol

Though if believing in Santa again was enough to get you out back on the nice list Riku should get back on since Sora would have most certainly told him about Santa Claus after KH2

 

[Soldier]

Well if we go with what we know in the film and apply it to KH, there is a "human world" connected to Christmas Town. Something similar can be said about the doors in Monstropolis.

I think we can go off of what we know about the worlds - they used to be connected, but are broken up into individual worlds. Maybe some worlds are still connected (like Monstropolis/"human world"). Maybe the "human world" that Sandy Klawz visits is simply a part of Halloween Town/Christmas Town, all within that one world?

Sandy knowing about Sora, Donald, and Goofy is interesting. Perhaps he has a way of travelling worlds and researching worlds? I mean Jafar, Ursula, Captain Hook, Oogie Boogie, and Hades used non-Gummi Ship/corridor of darkness methods of travelling worlds.

But now that you bring this up, I think it was a missed opportunity for someone post KH3 to visit Christmas Town and ask if Sandy Klawz could help locate Sora or knew what he was doing (since Sandy has knowledge of whether one does good or bad deeds). It would have been such a surprise if Sandy joined the Fairy Godmother to help us find Sora.

Interesting theory, certainly has some weight to it. As for the whole Maleficent league travelling, I think it's more of the matter of them having contact with the evil fairy to begin with that they're able to do that in KH 1. Notice that following KH 1, they don't use that method of travel anymore and are for the most part confined to their own worlds. Captain Hook is a perfect example, for someone who once had a whole crew comprised of buccaneer style heartless runs from them the first chance he gets in Days, despite being an accomplished swordsman himself.

(also, I would legitimately love a game where Sandy Claws and the Fairy godmother team up to help rescue Sora, The series is already off the rails with its confusing continuity, why not throw another curveball?)

 

[Face My Fears]

Interesting theory, certainly has some weight to it. As for the whole Maleficent league travelling, I think it's more of the matter of them having contact with the evil fairy to begin with that they're able to do that in KH 1. Notice that following KH 1, they don't use that method of travel anymore and are for the most part confined to their own worlds. Captain Hook is a perfect example, for someone who once had a whole crew comprised of buccaneer style heartless runs from them the first chance he gets in Days, despite being an accomplished swordsman himself.

(also, I would legitimately love a game where Sandy Claws and the Fairy godmother team up to help rescue Sora, The series is already off the rails with its confusing continuity, why not throw another curveball?)

Clearly there are different ways of travel besides corridors of darkness and the gummi ship. Magical beings seem to have a way (like Merlin and the Fairy Godmother). I'm guessing Sandy's way is with the magical reindeer.

I think in KH2 they're confined to their worlds because they want nothing to do with the outside worlds. What purpose would Hades have going to Agrabah or for that matter, Radiant Garden. Just look at Hades' reaction to Maleficent in KH3. It's possible that in KH1, they were all transported by Hook's ship. But I can see Jafar, Hades, and Ursula using magic to travel the worlds. Oogie probably needed a lift.

But getting back to Sandy, there is another character that has knowledge of outside worlds somehow. The Magic Mirror seems to be aware of the Keyblade Graveyard. How? Magic. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are some entities in worlds that have knowledge beyond their world's understanding, like Triton and the keyblade. To your point about Sandy delivering gifts to all the worlds, well Kairi/Axel "trained" in a timeless forest and there are spells that stop time, so maybe Sandy is the master of time magic?

 

[Soldier]

Clearly there are different ways of travel besides corridors of darkness and the gummi ship. Magical beings seem to have a way (like Merlin and the Fairy Godmother). I'm guessing Sandy's way is with the magical reindeer.

I think in KH2 they're confined to their worlds because they want nothing to do with the outside worlds. What purpose would Hades have going to Agrabah or for that matter, Radiant Garden. Just look at Hades' reaction to Maleficent in KH3. It's possible that in KH1, they were all transported by Hook's ship. But I can see Jafar, Hades, and Ursula using magic to travel the worlds. Oogie probably needed a lift.

But getting back to Sandy, there is another character that has knowledge of outside worlds somehow. The Magic Mirror seems to be aware of the Keyblade Graveyard. How? Magic. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are some entities in worlds that have knowledge beyond their world's understanding, like Triton and the keyblade. To your point about Sandy delivering gifts to all the worlds, well Kairi/Axel "trained" in a timeless forest and there are spells that stop time, so maybe Sandy is the master of time magic?

I think in the case of magic mirror it's an all-knowing being by default, but what it can tell you is limited due to it's inclination to rhyme. And yes, there is room for magical people to be capable of warping themselves and or others to another location. And Santa Claus with time powers? now I've heard everything. Wonder if he just routinely casts stopza everywhere he goes? And we still don't know how triton learned of the keyblade yet, so it's possible he encountered someone with a keyblade that we haven't seen.

 

[Willow A113]

I can't imagine him delivering presents to every house in the GALAXY. I think he is the one who delivers them in the holiday towns, and everywhere else there's a different VERSION of Santa.
I'm thinking most worlds have their own version of Santa and Christmas Town Santa knows about Sora, Donald, Goofy, and Riku because the Santas have some way to communicate with each other.
Maybe it's kinda like "the council of santas" or maybe they communicate telepathically through Christmas magic. If you want to get really crazy, you could theorize that they're all the same person that controls multiple bodies, but that's probably a bit far.

 

[Face My Fears]

I think in the case of magic mirror it's an all-knowing being by default, but what it can tell you is limited due to it's inclination to rhyme. And yes, there is room for magical people to be capable of warping themselves and or others to another location. And Santa Claus with time powers? now I've heard everything. Wonder if he just routinely casts stopza everywhere he goes? And we still don't know how triton learned of the keyblade yet, so it's possible he encountered someone with a keyblade that we haven't seen.

Well I imagine Sandy Klawz casts ZettaStopza on Christmas Eve combined with a device that transmits the magic to every world in existence.

OR

Because each world moves at their own speed, maybe every day is Christmas in another world. So it's kind of like a work week for him. Monday is Christmas in Destiny Islands, then Tuesday is Wonderland, then Wednesday is Olympus, then Thursday is Atlantica, then Friday is Agrabah.

 

[The Transcendent Key]

What an interesting topic! It hadn't occurred to me that Santa in Kingdom Hearts not only would have to deliver presents to the children of his own world, but to all worlds! Does that mean he would be an extremely powerful being along the lines of Yen Sid and Fairy Godmother? 0.0

 

[Soldier]

What an interesting topic! It hadn't occurred to me that Santa in Kingdom Hearts not only would have to deliver presents to the children of his own world, but to all worlds! Does that mean he would be an extremely powerful being along the lines of Yen Sid and Fairy Godmother? 0.0

There is no evidence supporting that theory, nor is there anything against it. It's implied that the events of the movie have already passed in Halloween Town, so Santa posesses little physical combat skills.

 

[Face My Fears]

I think this whole thing opens up a can of worms.

There's two "underworlds" so to speak in two separate Disney worlds - the Underworld in Olympus and Davey Jones' locker in The Caribbean. The interesting thing is that Auron (definitely not from Olympus) ends up in the Underworld. But this contradicts Sora's death, as he ends up in The Final World.

So who knows what actually happens lol.

 

[Soldier]

I think this whole thing opens up a can of worms.

There's two "underworlds" so to speak in two separate Disney worlds - the Underworld in Olympus and Davey Jones' locker in The Caribbean. The interesting thing is that Auron (definitely not from Olympus) ends up in the Underworld. But this contradicts Sora's death, as he ends up in The Final World.

So who knows what actually happens lol.

Perhaps it's a matter of there being a collective "underworld" per se. The farplane (Final Fantasy X's version of the underworld). Davy Jones Locker and Olympus's underworld could be connected in a few ways. In KH 2, Hades says "and I know just the warrior" when plotting with Pete. He mentions warrior as though he's likely seen countless souls (presumably from multiple worlds) and chose Auron specifically for the task of killing Hercules. It's a little known secret that Auron was supposed to appear in KH 1, but they couldn't fit him into the plot. But when KH 2 expanded Olympus to include the underworld, he now had a reason to be in that world.

Alternatively, It could be a matter of some worlds having a specific underworld where people go to when they die. Sora Donald and Goofy end up in Davy Jones locker after proving that the world is flat and not the final world or realm of darkness (other appropriate underworlds/purgatories). Maybe Auron was journeying around Olympus at some point and met his demise, forcing him into the underworld before the events of KH 2. Olympus always has been a bit of a meeting ground for final fantasy characters, so who knows who else is down in the underworld that Hades could have picked.

 

[The Transcendent Key]

There is no evidence supporting that theory, nor is there anything against it. It's implied that the events of the movie have already passed in Halloween Town, so Santa posesses little physical combat skills.

Oh, he doesn't have to possess combat skills to be powerful. Fairy Godmother and Yen Sid are more on the magical side of things, anyway.

I think this whole thing opens up a can of worms.

There's two "underworlds" so to speak in two separate Disney worlds - the Underworld in Olympus and Davey Jones' locker in The Caribbean. The interesting thing is that Auron (definitely not from Olympus) ends up in the Underworld. But this contradicts Sora's death, as he ends up in The Final World.

So who knows what actually happens lol.

Ah, a can of worms indeed! Imagine if we ever saw the Realm Of Darkness lead us to all the variations of the underworld we've seen in different worlds?

 

[Face My Fears]

Oh, he doesn't have to possess combat skills to be powerful. Fairy Godmother and Yen Sid are more on the magical side of things, anyway.



Ah, a can of worms indeed! Imagine if we ever saw the Realm Of Darkness lead us to all the variations of the underworld we've seen in different worlds?

That would be cool. Maybe each world has its own "underworld" depending on the rules of that world (like Olympus having gods). But there is one ultimate afterlife IE The Final World. I imagine that souls eventually go from Olympus' Underworld to The Final World.

 

[Soldier]

Oh, he doesn't have to possess combat skills to be powerful. Fairy Godmother and Yen Sid are more on the magical side of things, anyway.



Ah, a can of worms indeed! Imagine if we ever saw the Realm Of Darkness lead us to all the variations of the underworld we've seen in different worlds?

Well, Let's think this logically, the realm of darkness is supposed to be "a place of darkness where hearts are gathered" as evidenced by mickey in one of the extra scenes in KH 1 final mix, suggesting that it's likely a sort of limbo. Riku ended up there because he still has lingering attachment to the realm of light, and desired to see Sora and Kairi one last time. This is evidenced by him beginning to glow and presumably fade, but shrugs it off. Though it's likely the final world was far from even being a figment in Nomura's eye, it's implied that that's where he would've gone if it existed at that time.

 

[Face My Fears]

Well, Let's think this logically, the realm of darkness is supposed to be "a place of darkness where hearts are gathered" as evidenced by mickey in one of the extra scenes in KH 1 final mix, suggesting that it's likely a sort of limbo. Riku ended up there because he still has lingering attachment to the realm of light, and desired to see Sora and Kairi one last time. This is evidenced by him beginning to glow and presumably fade, but shrugs it off. Though it's likely the final world was far from even being a figment in Nomura's eye, it's implied that that's where he would've gone if it existed at that time.

I'm thinking Nomura believed that all hearts went back to "Kingdom Hearts" back in KH1. The question is whether he knew back then whether the Kingdom Hearts we encounter in KH1 was going to be fake or not.