A big pet peeve of mine with the series (and other games in general)

[AR829038]

There's a trend that started taking hold in the KH series after the first game, and I wanted to vent about it.

In the first KH game, you could complete all the side quests and the superbosses—in other words, you could 100% the game—in a single run-through. But ever since KH2, each and every game in the series has reveled in taking a bunch of sidequests and superbosses and locking them away until you complete the game for the first time. Now, to some this might not mean much, but for me, I really want to be able to feel like I'm playing through everything in the order in which it's meant to take place chronologically. So it doesn't feel right to me to go through the final boss and the ending, and then to just time jump backward to do the other stuff. It makes it all feel superfluous. Like it doesn't actually matter. I mean, I've already beaten the game. Why should the last thing I see in a game be my character just standing at a save point awkwardly after beating the hardest boss rather than seeing the ending sequence and the credits rolling? It feels so anticlimactic. And yes, I know you can go through the final boss again after completing everything, but it doesn't make sense to have to go through the same gauntlet of fights, only way easier, and it just feels redundant more than anything else.

To top it off, there isn't any point to the items you get by completing these quests if they all happen post-game. I suppose there isn't really much of a point anyway, considering that if you beat a superboss who's way harder than the final boss without the item you get from beating them, then it does stand to reason that you shouldn't have any trouble with the final boss by comparison (e.g., who has trouble fighting Final Xemnas after beating Lingering Will?)

It's just something I've gotten sick of being such a routine habit of these games.
First you had the Data Battles, Mushroom XIII, synthesis, and Lingering Will all locked into post-game in KH2.
Then you had all the extra reports and stuff in 358/2 Days.
Then you had the Bug Data-Roxas fight and Ultima Weapon in Coded.
The Vanitas LS and MF fights in BBS, as well as a couple Mirage Arena fights depending on which order you played in.
The Julius fight (and again, Ultima Weapon) in DDD.
The Mirror Phantom Aqua gauntlet in 0.2.
And then of course the Battle Gates in KH3.
KH2 was by far the worst offender on this list, but it's still a running issue in the series, and a lot of other games too, although I only really know KH since I haven't done much gaming outside of that franchise in the past decade or so.

It's just so jarring and feels so wrong to complete a game, get that sense of finality and conclusion, and then run right back to your last save file to do some other stuff for no good reason after the fact. KH1 did it perfectly. I could complete every sidequest, get Ultima Weapon, fight the Unknown, and THEN go off to face Ansem, all in one clean playthrough, making everything feel like one smooth journey from beginning to end. I just wish the KH games would get back to that format. There's no good reason to lock so many things behind the end credits.

Sorry for the rant. Just had to get that off my chest. It's a relatively small thing, but I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[MATGSY]

The secret bonus bosses typically are some of the best parts of KH games. The devs can never truly go fully all out on Boss design in the main story because said story has to actually be beatable. Bonus bosses allows them to flex their game design muscle more without having to hold back.

To top it off, there isn't any point to the items you get by completing these quests if they all happen post-game. I suppose there isn't really much of a point anyway, considering that if you beat a superboss who's way harder than the final boss without the item you get from beating them, then it does stand to reason that you shouldn't have any trouble with the final boss by comparison (e.g., who has trouble fighting Final Xemnas after beating Lingering Will?)

It's just something I've gotten sick of being such a routine habit of these games.
First you had the Data Battles, Mushroom XIII, synthesis, and Lingering Will all locked into post-game in KH2.
Then you had all the extra reports and stuff in 358/2 Days.
Then you had the Bug Data-Roxas fight and Ultima Weapon in Coded.
The Vanitas LS and MF fights in BBS, as well as a couple Mirage Arena fights depending on which order you played in.
The Julius fight (and again, Ultima Weapon) in DDD.
The Mirror Phantom Aqua gauntlet in 0.2.
And then of course the Battle Gates in KH3.
KH2 was by far the worst offender on this list, but it's still a running issue in the series, and a lot of other games too, although I only really know KH since I haven't done much gaming outside of that franchise in the past decade or so.

Although in the case of DDD, there's also the secret portals with the harder versions of world bosses. With Julius having an exploitable weakness, it's feasible to get Ultima weapon 1st & use it on the rematches.

 

[AR829038]

The secret bonus bosses typically are some of the best parts of KH games. The devs can never truly go fully all out on Boss design in the main story because said story has to actually be beatable. Bonus bosses allows them to flex their game design muscle more without having to hold back.

Although in the case of DDD, there's also the secret portals with the harder versions of world bosses. With Julius having an exploitable weakness, it's feasible to get Ultima weapon 1st & use it on the rematches.

Actually, what I was referring to was specifically the trend of locking sidequests and optional bosses behind the endgame screen. The Unknown in KH1 was optional, so you didn't HAVE to fight it to beat the game, but you also didn't have to beat the game to fight it. See what I mean?

 

[MATGSY]

Actually, what I was referring to was specifically the trend of locking sidequests and optional bosses behind the endgame screen. The Unknown in KH1 was optional, so you didn't HAVE to fight it to beat the game, but you also didn't have to beat the game to fight it. See what I mean?

Look, if you don't like the post-game stuff, then don't play it, ignore it, & move on. Simple as.

 

[AR829038]

Look, if you don't like the post-game stuff, then don't play it, ignore it, & move on. Simple as.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I LOVE the post-game stuff. In all of the KH games. I just get irritated that they have to be unlocked by finishing the game first. I would at least like the option to do these things on a first playthrough. I'm not dissing any of the content itself.

 

[Elysium]

I, too, love all the side quests opening up throughout the course of the game. It's fun on re-play trying to keep up with everything as it becomes available in KH1, and the challenge to accomplish some things earlier, for example. Content being left to post-game isn't just a KH problem though, I think it's becoming sort of a standard practice in games, unfortunately.

I still wish KH would allow you an option to play as new game+, however. It would be fun going through the game with all the Keyblades at the start, for example, and how they feel different at lower levels v. the higher levels when you receive some of them.

 

[Seasaltrio]

There's a trend that started taking hold in the KH series after the first game, and I wanted to vent about it.

In the first KH game, you could complete all the side quests and the superbosses—in other words, you could 100% the game—in a single run-through. But ever since KH2, each and every game in the series has reveled in taking a bunch of sidequests and superbosses and locking them away until you complete the game for the first time. Now, to some this might not mean much, but for me, I really want to be able to feel like I'm playing through everything in the order in which it's meant to take place chronologically. So it doesn't feel right to me to go through the final boss and the ending, and then to just time jump backward to do the other stuff. It makes it all feel superfluous. Like it doesn't actually matter. I mean, I've already beaten the game. Why should the last thing I see in a game be my character just standing at a save point awkwardly after beating the hardest boss rather than seeing the ending sequence and the credits rolling? It feels so anticlimactic. And yes, I know you can go through the final boss again after completing everything, but it doesn't make sense to have to go through the same gauntlet of fights, only way easier, and it just feels redundant more than anything else.

To top it off, there isn't any point to the items you get by completing these quests if they all happen post-game. I suppose there isn't really much of a point anyway, considering that if you beat a superboss who's way harder than the final boss without the item you get from beating them, then it does stand to reason that you shouldn't have any trouble with the final boss by comparison (e.g., who has trouble fighting Final Xemnas after beating Lingering Will?)

It's just something I've gotten sick of being such a routine habit of these games.
First you had the Data Battles, Mushroom XIII, synthesis, and Lingering Will all locked into post-game in KH2.
Then you had all the extra reports and stuff in 358/2 Days.
Then you had the Bug Data-Roxas fight and Ultima Weapon in Coded.
The Vanitas LS and MF fights in BBS, as well as a couple Mirage Arena fights depending on which order you played in.
The Julius fight (and again, Ultima Weapon) in DDD.
The Mirror Phantom Aqua gauntlet in 0.2.
And then of course the Battle Gates in KH3.
KH2 was by far the worst offender on this list, but it's still a running issue in the series, and a lot of other games too, although I only really know KH since I haven't done much gaming outside of that franchise in the past decade or so.

It's just so jarring and feels so wrong to complete a game, get that sense of finality and conclusion, and then run right back to your last save file to do some other stuff for no good reason after the fact. KH1 did it perfectly. I could complete every sidequest, get Ultima Weapon, fight the Unknown, and THEN go off to face Ansem, all in one clean playthrough, making everything feel like one smooth journey from beginning to end. I just wish the KH games would get back to that format. There's no good reason to lock so many things behind the end credits.

Sorry for the rant. Just had to get that off my chest. It's a relatively small thing, but I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I honestly prefer that the secret bosses are y'know, secret. Because they tend to be super difficult, even more than the final boss. I guess they are for hardcore players who really want a challenge, so I would prefer it to be totally optional.
For example, if it was in chronological order and a beginner KH player was playing, they wouldn't want to be stuck on a super hard boss for 2 weeks that shouldn't be mandatory.

 

[AR829038]

I honestly prefer that the secret bosses are y'know, secret. Because they tend to be super difficult, even more than the final boss. I guess they are for hardcore players who really want a challenge, so I would prefer it to be totally optional.
For example, if it was in chronological order and a beginner KH player was playing, they wouldn't want to be stuck on a super hard boss for 2 weeks that shouldn't be mandatory.

But again, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying everything in the game should be mandatory—I'm just saying that you should be able to find them and complete them without having to finish the game first and then load up a save file. Why not just have all the side quests and superbosses available to find (they can still be secret and hard to find) on a first run through?

 

[kirabook]

I do get what you mean.
I suppose the biggest problem I see is sometimes when you have secret bosses ala KH1 style, you might surprise players into thinking they're required or accidentally lock off cool areas of your game for the sake of a boss arena.

I remember when I was 12 or 13 before the days of youtube and I wanted to go back to Big Ben and fly around again. To my surprise and horror, an evil grim reaper showed up there and killed me and all my party members one by one. My dumb child brain had no idea what just happened except to try again and die again. I never got to go back to Big Ben. I still haven't defeated that boss actually, but I suppose I realize I didn't need to beat him to complete the game.

The same with Kurt Zisa.

I can see it both ways. It's cool to be surprised and find a super boss in an area you previously were just chilling and ready to fight.
It sucks that you can't revisit these areas cause there's a big boss in the way that you can't defeat.

KH2 had the right of it, or rather, KH2FM. Maybe they should set up these "portal" set pieces in the game prior to the ending but somehow make it clear it's optional content. Don't lock off locations cause of boss battles either.

But anyway. Another reason do the post-ending lock off of content is to keep players playing a little longer. Maybe hope they go back into the game to explore a little more and find more understanding if they didn't get it the first time (while also making them re-experience the ending again just to drive it in home) But in most games, it does seem pretty pointless to set it up this way.

I think it makes a lot of sense for like, Birth by Sleep. You're playing individual stories. I don't remember when the super bosses become available but I think it's before the ending? Plus each new "ending unlock" is all new stuff (Final Episode and then Secret Episode, though the decision to lock those behind Xehanort reports is also questionable)

 

[MasterOfMasterOfMasters]

my problem is some sidequests are a chore. the mushrooms are a chore, like half of them are luck based, its not fun and the benedits arent mch either. better to have a couple really good minigames than 13 that are just bad. data battles were really cool though