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A Lea question



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Chuman

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Really doubt it from how he was really friendly with Lea, however brief. He didn't have any issue with Axel as Zexion and was pretty surprised Axel was there to off him. It wasn't like anything bad came from it. If Axel had never had Repliku strike him down, he would have never become a Somebody again (at least not until somebody else came along and eliminated him) so Axel did him a favor in a very unconventional way.

this makes more sense. axel isn't evil, but he had something to get off his chest. so he murder!resurrected zexion and killed two birds with one stone.

(and zexion is a bloodhound so he probably dgaf)
 

Zettaflare

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Really doubt it from how he was really friendly with Lea, however brief. He didn't have any issue with Axel as Zexion and was pretty surprised Axel was there to off him. It wasn't like anything bad came from it. If Axel had never had Repliku strike him down, he would have never become a Somebody again (at least not until somebody else came along and eliminated him) so Axel did him a favor in a very unconventional way.

ienzo could easily be faking his friendleness towards lea. despite it being beneficial towards ienzo, lea still had him killed

what about even though? how will he feel towards lea?
 

Taochan

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ienzo could easily be faking his friendleness towards lea. despite it being beneficial towards ienzo, lea still had him killed

what about even though? how will he feel towards lea?
Why would they even care? They're all Somebodies again.
 

Chuman

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ienzo could easily be faking his friendleness towards lea. despite it being beneficial towards ienzo, lea still had him killed

what about even though? how will he feel towards lea?

it doesn't matter because ever's actions only benefit even. he is, and has been, a cold person.

it is however possible that he may side with the 7 lights as that could be beneficial towards him, but his personality is the same: he hates everyone.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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it doesn't matter because ever's actions only benefit even. he is, and has been, a cold person.

it is however possible that he may side with the 7 lights as that could be beneficial towards him, but his personality is the same: he hates everyone.

He did care about Ienzo though probably on an intellectual level, and he was deeply invested in his research. He's not the nicest person, but I wouldn't go so far to say he hates everybody. He probably sees everybody as a science experiment.

ienzo could easily be faking his friendleness towards lea. despite it being beneficial towards ienzo, lea still had him killed

what about even though? how will he feel towards lea?

There is no need for him to fake being amicable. Zexion got his heart back. I doubt he's going to hate anybody for getting the one thing he wanted back through an unconventional method. Ienzo is a scientist and this is probably more fascinating to him than upsetting.

Even is Even. He'd probably be dramatic about it but I doubt he'd suddenly decide he should exact his revenge on Lea. Like Ienzo he'd probably find it fascinating that a brute, unrefined action was the key to becoming whole again.
 
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Rydgea

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Also, it's likely that since Vexen and Zexion were offed by Axel, they'd just kindof heel to him now and also have almost no room for righteous indignation considering the horrible experiments they performed on god knows how many people. Maybe they all figure each got what he deserved. It's too early to say for Even, but they all seemed civil in Ansem's study.

We certainly do know that the black coat is magical.
-Conforms to the user's build (ie. Riku turning into his Ansem appearance and back)
-Changes the clothes they're wearing inside the coat (ie. Mickey wearing the coat had black gloves and shoes. When he removed the coat during his badass moment cutscene/when he thought Goofy died, they magically transform into his white gloves and yellow shoes)
-Natural resistance to Darkness.

The coat has an alibi, but I was really poking jest at this general miscroscopic shortcoming with the clothing. Ienzo waking up in his apprentice outfit, Naminé, TAV, all teenagers "not aging" for years, wearing the same old thing, a slew of Disney characters and so on.
 
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auburn-flare

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I sincerely doubt that Axel had something against Vexen and Zexion. They seemed way too neutral towards one another and I think Axel in CoM straight up said that he didn't want to off Vexen. However, reading this thread made me wonder if Lea and Isa were experiments solely for Apprentice Xehanort and no one else knowing about it (well, Braig could've been in on it too). I mean, I'm not too sure about the coat but it gives way to some interesting thoughts on the matter.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I sincerely doubt that Axel had something against Vexen and Zexion. They seemed way too neutral towards one another and I think Axel in CoM straight up said that he didn't want to off Vexen.

Axel took too much pleasure in destroying them and when you think about his character in the overall scheme of things, he is not the type to really be like that.

However, reading this thread made me wonder if Lea and Isa were experiments solely for Apprentice Xehanort and no one else knowing about it (well, Braig could've been in on it too). I mean, I'm not too sure about the coat but it gives way to some interesting thoughts on the matter.

Lea wakes up in the lab with the other Apprentices and they wholly expected the other Apprentices and Isa to appear there as well, so they were well aware of Lea and Isa prior to whatever events unfolded in the lab that day they all lost their hearts.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It's one of the few things that makes sense. Something had to have happened to Isa for him to get that X shaped scar on his face and for Axel and Saix to have some big plan against the Organization, whatever it was.



Not sure if it would contradict it. Axel got what he wanted: Vexen and Zexion's brutal deaths by his own hands. I'd say that'd be enough to satiate his urge to seek vengeance if he was part of the experiments. Ienzo didn't seem upset at all at Lea when they awoke, but there wasn't much that could be taken from their brief interaction. It was impossible to tell what Lea really felt about them since he got his answers and then high-tailed it to Disney Castle.

Although, it'd be in the nature of the game's theme for all of them to forgive and forget.

Something in KH makes sense...Nomura must have overlooked something. *ggg*
Yep, there has to be also something that eventually made Isa a perfect "vessel" and Lea an "unfit" one earlier in the nine-year gap before Days.
Roxas and Xion befriending Axel was definitely not the catalyst as Saix was a emotionless jerkass with golden eyes even before Roxas was even born.

Ah, you mean along the mindset of "I had my payback, now we're equal" on Lea's part, and Ienzo and Aeleus seem to get along with this as well since it is implied that they also have the memories of their Nobodies and Ienzo makes no mention of Axel offing him by proxy through the Riku Replica.

Indeed, although it'll get a bit predictable if nearly everyone gets to be so forgiving for past misdeeds.

maybe ienzo does hold a grudge against lea and will get his vengeance in kh3 or another game. i cant imagine him brushing it off

Unlikely considering his behaviour in DDD, furthermore if they are on a silent "agreement" that Axel's actions are the payment Ienzo had to pay for his past misdeeds concerning Lea during the experiments.
This would be the "eye for an eye"-issue by the word.

it doesn't matter because ever's actions only benefit even. he is, and has been, a cold person.

it is however possible that he may side with the 7 lights as that could be beneficial towards him, but his personality is the same: he hates everyone.

Even might be a cold person and mostly indifferent/amoral, but I won't say that he hates everyone, that's too strong of an emotion for a scientific mind like he has.
Hating everyone is more Vanitas' shtick.
Even/Vexen is more like a slightly tamer version of FF VII's Professor Hojo, as he doesn't see people as people and beings in their own right, but rather objects/specimens to further his research and own curiosity.
 

ajmrowland

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Why would they even care? They're all Somebodies again.
This.


Though it begs the question of whether or not Ienzo even knew about Xemnas' plan for Kingdom Hearts. But assuming he doesn't....


either way, there seemed to be no hard feelings.
 

Zettaflare

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Sigh, apparently murder and betrayal is easily forgivable in the kh universe. As sephiroth said, hopefully forgiveness to past misdeeds doesn't become a trend.

I wonder why Lea was wearing his organization cloak when he was revived?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Sigh, apparently murder and betrayal is easily forgivable in the kh universe. As sephiroth said, hopefully forgiveness to past misdeeds doesn't become a trend.

I wonder why Lea was wearing his organization cloak when he was revived?

No one spoke about "easily forgiveable" as far as I can recall. The thesis is that in Ienzo's and Lea's case they even out their misdeeds and therefore don't speak about them anymore.
Ienzo would not have any moral high ground against Lea anyways due to the nefarious deeds he himself committed.

Probably because he wore it when he lost his heart in whatever experiment caused it at the time.
 

rac7d

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Sigh, apparently murder and betrayal is easily forgivable in the kh universe. As sephiroth said, hopefully forgiveness to past misdeeds doesn't become a trend.

I wonder why Lea was wearing his organization cloak when he was revived?
Theere not ready to make a new outfit for him yet. He was 15 when he lost his heart, his clothes would not fit, however that doesnt explain zexion magic clothes. It like age one of the mysteries we will never know for sure
 

Zettaflare

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No one spoke about "easily forgiveable" as far as I can recall. The thesis is that in Ienzo's and Lea's case they even out their misdeeds and therefore don't speak about them anymore.
Ienzo would not have any moral high ground against Lea anyways due to the nefarious deeds he himself committed.

Probably because he wore it when he lost his heart in whatever experiment caused it at the time.

Either that or the developers were to lazy to make him a new outfit :)
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Though it begs the question of whether or not Ienzo even knew about Xemnas' plan for Kingdom Hearts. But assuming he doesn't....

It was implied in BBS and KH2FM that Ienzo/Zexion was keeping an eye on everything concerning Xehanort. If he found out or not remains unknown, but he is often described in his game bio as a person who has a keen perception and pays attention to everything around him.

Xigbar goes as far as discussing the Chamber of Repose and Waking and "Xemnas' secret" with Zexion, and Zexion kind of just says he wants to go do his job and for Xigbar to leave him alone.

It wouldn't be shocking in KH3 if Ienzo serves as an info dump when Sora and co. start trying to find out more about Xehanort and his plans.

Something in KH makes sense...Nomura must have overlooked something. *ggg*

He didn't go back and add more info to it, that's why. The second it is said in game, it will be a big convoluted mess. 8D

Yep, there has to be also something that eventually made Isa a perfect "vessel" and Lea an "unfit" one earlier in the nine-year gap before Days.
Roxas and Xion befriending Axel was definitely not the catalyst as Saix was a emotionless jerkass with golden eyes even before Roxas was even born.

Roxas and Xion were the straw that broke the camel's back for Axel and Saix's rocky "friendship". Axel was distant, Saix grew jealous...I agree they weren't the catalyst, and sadly there isn't anything that could hint at what it was nine years ago.

Unless the jealousy is the hint. Saix didn't hesitate to use the "true friendship" card on Axel, so I wonder if Isa was ever jealous that Lea continually went out of his way to make friends with strangers even if he'd never see them again. It was jealously that partially weakened Riku's heart and made him turn to the Darkness, and I wouldn't be surprised if Isa might have fallen under similar circumstances.

Ah, you mean along the mindset of "I had my payback, now we're equal" on Lea's part, and Ienzo and Aeleus seem to get along with this as well since it is implied that they also have the memories of their Nobodies and Ienzo makes no mention of Axel offing him by proxy through the Riku Replica.

Indeed, although it'll get a bit predictable if nearly everyone gets to be so forgiving for past misdeeds.

Yes. Exactly!

And lol yeah it would be, but I think if they do it to different levels it wouldn't be too bad...like one person can forgive and forget (like Sora), another become pissy and angry about it but not really go out of their way to antagonize the offender.

Either that or the developers were to lazy to make him a new outfit :)

Doubt that! They are probably saving an outfit reveal for KH3~
 

Sephiroth0812

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Either that or the developers were to lazy to make him a new outfit :)

Possible, but I wouldn't think of that as the primary reason. Lea was said by Nomura to be one of the Key characters of DDD and Riku and Sora got new outfits as well.

It was implied in BBS and KH2FM that Ienzo/Zexion was keeping an eye on everything concerning Xehanort. If he found out or not remains unknown, but he is often described in his game bio as a person who has a keen perception and pays attention to everything around him.

Xigbar goes as far as discussing the Chamber of Repose and Waking and "Xemnas' secret" with Zexion, and Zexion kind of just says he wants to go do his job and for Xigbar to leave him alone.

It wouldn't be shocking in KH3 if Ienzo serves as an info dump when Sora and co. start trying to find out more about Xehanort and his plans.
Not to forget that it was Ienzo who urged Ansem to create the underground laboratory and to go further with his research. Probably the scientific influence of both Even (who was singled out in the Ansem Reports to be particularly interested in the subject) and Apprentice Xehanort rubbed off on Ienzo, so him being more into things than the others isn't so farfetched.
Wasn't it also that Saix had Axel eliminate Zexion because he had chances to eventually supplant Saix as the second-in-command.
Ienzo/Zexion may not have known as much as Xemnas and Xigbar, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was the most informed in the Org after those two, on par or even above Saix.

To be honest I can totally picture him like that. He likes to give speeches with so much theorizing and possibilities that he would serve that role well.
So far the characters most suited for info dumps on the side of the good guys were Yen Sid and Naminé though, maybe they'll form the "Info-Dump-Trio" with Ienzo in KH 3? xD


He didn't go back and add more info to it, that's why. The second it is said in game, it will be a big convoluted mess. 8D



Roxas and Xion were the straw that broke the camel's back for Axel and Saix's rocky "friendship". Axel was distant, Saix grew jealous...I agree they weren't the catalyst, and sadly there isn't anything that could hint at what it was nine years ago.

Unless the jealousy is the hint. Saix didn't hesitate to use the "true friendship" card on Axel, so I wonder if Isa was ever jealous that Lea continually went out of his way to make friends with strangers even if he'd never see them again. It was jealously that partially weakened Riku's heart and made him turn to the Darkness, and I wouldn't be surprised if Isa might have fallen under similar circumstances.
Yep, and then it will take another side game in the next saga to fully explore that mess. 8D

From what we see in Days from an emotional standpoint Axel probably cannot be blamed for growing distant as Saix increasingly started to treat him like a servant and man for the dirty work and not really a friend.

Yeesh, Spockanort, I think you might be on to something there, as the parallels to KH 1 Riku with BBS Isa are somewhat noticeable if you look closer at it.
Isa being jealous that Lea could make friends so easily everywhere and that he often gained new ones would make sense, also if he had maybe the same inner fear that KH 1-Riku had (with Donald and Goofy, and maybe even Kairi in a sense) in that he would be replaced with new friends.
Funny thing is also the subtle parallels in their mindsets, as both (BBS)Lea and Sora are more the "follow your heart" and "have your heart on your tongue"-type while both Riku and Isa are more the quiet, logical type.

Yes. Exactly!

And lol yeah it would be, but I think if they do it to different levels it wouldn't be too bad...like one person can forgive and forget (like Sora), another become pissy and angry about it but not really go out of their way to antagonize the offender.

That would actually be a logical explanation as well that isn't too fantastic.

Indeed, there are many different nuances in how that can go, and when I look at the whole series not even Sora is that easily forgiveable from the get go.
From what I observed, Sora does not hestitate to strike down an "enemy" at all, the only times when he's wanting to listen and to forgive is when the opponent in question actually shows remorse and wants to make amends for the stuff they did.
I also won't rule out that we may eventually see a call-out to someone, maybe in the variant ala "you're the one to talk, look at the shit you pulled yourself before lecturing others".
This variant was actually tried by Xemnas towards Ansem the Wise in KH 2, although of course with the somewhat irky notion that Xemnas' offences are in fact way worse than Ansem the Wise's.
 

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Maybe it's related to the plan Isa and Lea had that has yet to be revealed.
 

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with all this talk of lea and ienzo, i have to ask, am I the only person who feels like ienzo has some super important role yet to be determined/revealed? he just seems important, from the way unversed just swarmed him and he was chill at an age of like, 4, to the fact that HE was the one who convinced ansem to build the secret lab, to that little seen in BBS where he is walking with ansem and just gives xehanort a look of pure " i know what your up to, jerk."
 
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