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A Meaning Behind "Unbirth"



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This is what I think:

General, generic memories reside in the mind like they always do. This explains why The Org has memories of their past life without having a heart.

The truly important memories...the memories that allow someone to never ever forget their friends and things important to them, those reside in the heart. It's like remembering the people you love with your heart.

That's what I think, anyway.

Actually, all memories are generally stored in the heart. It's only when a Nobody is created that the memories are released from the heart to the Nobody (in what we can assume to be the mind).

That the Nobodies get memories is fact based on the Secret Ansem Reports and Another Report:
Apart from Naminé, Nobodies retain their memories of their time as humans, but Sora's Nobody, Roxas, has lost Sora's memories.

A Nobody's main characteristic is that without a heart they use memories to form the parts of a personality and emotions. For them, memories have become an essential element.

So how do we know that the Heartless lose the memories and the Nobodies don't simply have a copy of them (I was in an argument with someone over this once...). Simple. Look at Sora. When he turned into a heartless, he described the process of forgetting absolutely everything (all of his memorries were going to Roxas, but when he was regenerated by Kairi's light, Roxas lost those memories and they returned to Sora's heart).

I think it's safe to say that the memories are in the heart unless that heart is lost to the darkness of the heartless.

While it is interesting, the problem I have with this theory is that it's similar to the Heartless. Heartless are comprised of hearts without memories.

By the way, for anyone reading this, I'll be on a family vacation for the next five days just to give a heads up, so I won't be here during that time. (I also have to get off the family computer now since others have been waiting to use it. Unfortunately my laptop was infected with spyware yesterday and can't even reach the desktop :[ ... )
 

Cissy

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Actually, all memories are generally stored in the heart. It's only when a Nobody is created that the memories are released from the heart to the Nobody (in what we can assume to be the mind).

That the Nobodies get memories is fact based on the Secret Ansem Reports and Another Report:


So how do we know that the Heartless lose the memories and the Nobodies don't simply have a copy of them (I was in an argument with someone over this once...). Simple. Look at Sora. When he turned into a heartless, he described the process of forgetting absolutely everything (all of his memorries were going to Roxas, but when he was regenerated by Kairi's light, Roxas lost those memories and they returned to Sora's heart).

I think it's safe to say that the memories are in the heart unless that heart is lost to the darkness of the heartless.

While it is interesting, the problem I have with this theory is that it's similar to the Heartless. Heartless are comprised of hearts without memories.

By the way, for anyone reading this, I'll be on a family vacation for the next five days just to give a heads up, so I won't be here during that time. (I also have to get off the family computer now since others have been waiting to use it. Unfortunately my laptop was infected with spyware yesterday and can't even reach the desktop :[ ... )

I suppose that would make sense, also.

I just figured that having the most important memories of all stored in the heart would explain how Donald, Sora, and Goofy were supposed to "remember each other even if they're memories get erased."

Though I suppose your theory makes more sense.

Have a nice vacation, G.
 

Raz

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Who ever said Xehanort was begging TERRA for help??...

Are you talking about MX? Because most people think Terra is Xehanort.
Well, he's been seen working with Maleficent.
 
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Ren

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This is the one theory on Unbirths that has made sense while I'm reading it. Memories have a huge role in KH--if this theory turns out to be true or even partly accurate, it will explain a lot. I'm super impressed!
 

Owaz

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Hey OmniChaos, I appreciate that you pointed the flaws out. I had no idea there were that many, but I'll answer them as best I can.

A large part of me doubts this...

Well, I am just giving my own interpretation of what that heart shaped void in the emblem could mean symbolically. Doubtlessly it has something to do with the heart.

Except that does not tie in with the name...

Maybe I didn't explain it good enough. But what I'm getting at is that Unbirths could be beings born without memories. That ties in better, right?

Kinda seems like a stretch... And, like I said, does not tie in with the name...

Nothing to say here.

And how would you explain the enemies being around before he accessed KH...? I'm sure when MX is after the "seven of pure heart," he is planning to open KH...

What enemies? If you're talking about the ginormous thing that turned to dust in the first segment of that video I linked, I think it's fair to say it was an early concept for Birth By Sleep that is no longer considered valid, just like the three missing Keyblades. But I think it's Maleficent who's after the Princesses, not Xehanort. Other than that, I don't really know.

Try more toward the end... That scene, referring to the secret ending, will most likely take place before the final battle...

Can't argue with that.

You failed to read the line before it... Terra says "friend"... Ven and Terra's friendship has already been established, so what is the point in referring Ven as "friend"...? The fact is that there is no reason... Is it impossible that he is referring to Ven...? No... Is it very likely...? Probably not...

I didn't fail, I just didn't think it was necessary to type. However, I can't imagine who else Terra would be talking about aside from Ven.

Or, should Ven be one of these "pure of heart", he may be referring to the purity...

"Recover everything" definitely implies recovering lost memories. I mean that scene depicts Ven having no clue who Xehanort is when he says "As for having met you..."

Submit =/= use of darkness...
Submit = giving into darkness...


I know. I'm just saying that if he submitted to the darkness, maybe he lost his Keyblade. Or he could be warning Terra not to submit to the darkness.

Possibly...

Yeah, not much else to say.

This can actually be used as proof to prove you wrong... "This power" that Terra speaks of most likely refers to the Fatal Mode...

I think the power Terra speaks of is the darkness. But Fatal Mode might be an ability spawned from it.

Or, he could be taking about erasing him in general... Seeing as how he seems to have something MX is after (his heart perhaps), Ven may want to be erased so that MX can never obtain it...

Maybe, but I wonder about the impression it would give if Aqua slaughtered her friend? :p

The dialogue indicates nothing...

If it indicated nothing I would not have wasted time typing all of that and responding to your post. :/

Or, it could still be the regular "Heart of all Worlds" KH...

Maybe.

Yes, but I doubt through the process in which you guess...

Fair enough.

Someone who isn't at best a pawn...?

LMAO!

I don't... Your theory on the unbirths does not even connect to their name... Plus the fact that the Secret Ending is obviously toward the end...

Unbirths = Those born without memories. That's my definition for them.

Anyway, I did my best to respond to your statements. Now I'll move on to others.

O my god this is the best theory about BBS yet! And wait so theyre pretty much sayin that unbirths are zombies:confused:

Not zombies. Just kinda like a cross of the characteristics of a Nobody and Heartless.

This is what I think:

General, generic memories reside in the mind like they always do. This explains why The Org has memories of their past life without having a heart.

The truly important memories...the memories that allow someone to never ever forget their friends and things important to them, those reside in the heart. It's like remembering the people you love with your heart.

That's what I think, anyway.

I think you're right. :3

Who ever said Xehanort was begging TERRA for help??...

No one.

*claps*

I like the idea of the blue heart in the sky to be the heart of all memories, also the idea of Ven wanting to be turned into an Unbirth.

Well, I wasn't implying that Ven wants to become an Unbirth himself. He probably just has important information or even painful memories that he wants to be rid of.

Phew... Finished.
 

OmniChaos

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Doubtlessly it has something to do with the heart.

I do agree with you on that...

Maybe I didn't explain it good enough. But what I'm getting at is that Unbirths could be beings born without memories. That ties in better, right?

But memory loss does not tie in with the name... I just don't see how you get the idea of memory loss from the name Unbirth... The two just don't work with each other...

What enemies? If you're talking about the ginormous thing that turned to dust in the first segment of that video I linked, I think it's fair to say it was an early concept for Birth By Sleep that is no longer considered valid, just like the three missing Keyblades.

I'm talking about the Unbirths... You are saying MX created them through KH, but MX doesn't open/summon KH until near the end...

But I think it's Maleficent who's after the Princesses, not Xehanort. Other than that, I don't really know.

There has been ingame proof that he is... Here's the conversation:

Aqua: "Is there a clue of Master Xehanort?"
Terra: "He is interested in hearts of pure light."
Aqua: "A heart of pure light..."
Terra: "We'll chase the light too."
Terra: "Master Xehanort should appear if we do so."

So, yeah...

I didn't fail, I just didn't think it was necessary to type. However, I can't imagine who else Terra would be talking about aside from Ven.

Possibly DS...

I know. I'm just saying that if he submitted to the darkness, maybe he lost his Keyblade. Or he could be warning Terra not to submit to the darkness.

Except he didn't loose his keyblade, as we saw him with one during the secret ending...

If it indicated nothing I would not have wasted time typing all of that and responding to your post. :/

Seeing as how the secret ending is obviously toward the end, there is no way the quotes can indicate that those scene happened after the secret ending... And since you were trying to use those quotes to do such, they indicate nothing...

Unbirths = Those born without memories. That's my definition for them.

Then why not call them "Unmemory" or something like that...? The name would imply a backward process of normal birth, hence "UnBirth"...
 

Captain Garlock

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Un-Birth could indeed mean the fact that it is not a heartless and it is not a nobody but it lays inbetween.

Like it isnt born yet so it doesnt have a heart but it exsists.
Or it could be a human not yet born with a heart thus doesnt have a heart or memories
 

Owaz

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But memory loss does not tie in with the name... I just don't see how you get the idea of memory loss from the name Unbirth... The two just don't work with each other...

Well, actually I figured memories were related to Unbirths based on what we learned from Chain of Memories. I'm just saying that it probably derives from them being entities that have been born into the world with their memories completely stripped, but their hearts still remain intact.

I'm talking about the Unbirths... You are saying MX created them through KH, but MX doesn't open/summon KH until near the end...

At the end of the teaser video, yes. But I'm implying that the events depicted in that secret clip are just the prelude to the story of Birth by Sleep.

There has been ingame proof that he is... Here's the conversation:

I think it's fair to say Terra could just as easily have been fooled into believing that by Maleficent. After all, we've seen her lie to Riku.

Possibly DS...

The apprentice of Master Xehanort as Terra's friend? I really don't think that's the case. Especially when we saw him beat Ven in the wasteland.

Except he didn't loose his keyblade, as we saw him with one during the secret ending...

Well the problem here is you think it's at the end of Birth by Sleep and I think it's at the beginning. So we can't really reach a conclusion.

Seeing as how the secret ending is obviously toward the end, there is no way the quotes can indicate that those scene happened after the secret ending... And since you were trying to use those quotes to do such, they indicate nothing...

Would you explain why it takes place toward the end, then? Because from what's been shown in scans and the trailers, it appears more likely that the secret video is a scene from the beginning of the story. After all, why would Nomura and his team show us the ending to Birth by Sleep? Wouldn't it make more sense for Terra, Aqua, and Ven to put up a more capable fight at the end, as opposed to being completely demolished? For what other event would Terra be angry with Master Xehanort about? Why would Ven have no memory of Xehanort, and yet the old man indicates they've met before? Clearly the best explanation is that the secret ending from FM+ was the start of Birth By Sleep. I can't see how it would be the end.

Then why not call them "Unmemory" or something like that...? The name would imply a backward process of normal birth, hence "UnBirth"...

Well, what else do you have in mind that would make sense for Unbirth's derivation?
 

OmniChaos

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Well, actually I figured memories were related to Unbirths based on what we learned from Chain of Memories. I'm just saying that it probably derives from them being entities that have been born into the world with their memories completely stripped, but their hearts still remain intact.

Well, I'm just going to end this section of the debate, seeing as how there is nothing that can prove or disprove either of our ideas and we are simply going in circles...
Though I do think memories will have some role in BBS, I still can't see them tied into the Unbirths in that sort of way...


At the end of the teaser video, yes. But I'm implying that the events depicted in that secret clip are just the prelude to the story of Birth by Sleep.

The scene just obviously points toward the end...
The three apprentices gather and take on MX in order to stop his plans...
MX and DS beat the three down, steals from Ven what ever it was MX was after, and summons KH...
Also, if MX had summoned KH before BBS, I'm sure he would have used its power to wipe out VAT...


I think it's fair to say Terra could just as easily have been fooled into believing that by Maleficent. After all, we've seen her lie to Riku.

Possibly... But I can easily see MX doing the same thing XH did in KH1...

The apprentice of Master Xehanort as Terra's friend? I really don't think that's the case. Especially when we saw him beat Ven in the wasteland.

There really is no one else he can be referring to... Why call Ven "friend" in quotes, if it has already been established that they are friends...?

Would you explain why it takes place toward the end, then? Because from what's been shown in scans and the trailers, it appears more likely that the secret video is a scene from the beginning of the story.

Because it just screams "final battle"...?
Also, Ven's keyblade is destroyed in the secret ending...

After all, why would Nomura and his team show us the ending to Birth by Sleep?

Because they aren't...? It's toward the end, not the end...

Wouldn't it make more sense for Terra, Aqua, and Ven to put up a more capable fight at the end, as opposed to being completely demolished?

Not if they are against a nearly all powerful being...

For what other event would Terra be angry with Master Xehanort about?

Taking Ven's heart...? (Assuming he to be a "pure of heart")

Why would Ven have no memory of Xehanort, and yet the old man indicates they've met before?

In all honesty, I cannot counter this...

Well, what else do you have in mind that would make sense for Unbirth's derivation?

lol...
A process based off the word's original meaning...
 

Raz

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I guess you could be considered "unborn" without memories. But it's a stretch...
 
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