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A Question Of Shells (HUGE SPOILERS)



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Americo

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Okay. From new information we know that Roxas is #13 and Ansem is #1. Now this kind of confuses me. I can understand Ansem being in the Org, since Ansem cast away his shell. Does this mean DiZ isn't Ansem now though? I was really wondering about the Roxas thing. Since Namine can manipulate memories it's clear that Roxas might not be his real name, just a name they made up to make him think he was in the Org, and be #13, but what I REALLY don't get is if this is all true, and Roxas is Sora's shell... How can that be? Sora has his shell doesn't he? I realize he lost it for a little bit when he became a Heartless in HB but Kairi called out to his Heart and pulled him back together didn't she? I mean how could Sora be walking around if he didn't have his Shell? The Heart can't take a form by itself, this is why Ansem's Heart needed Riku's Shell.

So a recap...

1. How can Roxas be Sora's shell if Sora still has his shell?

2. Does this mean DiZ isn't Ansem, atleast Ansem's shell?

3. Is it possible that what Roxas thinks is fake? I mean they made his memories fake so why not this?
 
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riku'sheart

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I don't really think that Roxas is Sora's shell. I think that he is another part of him that's in a total different place. I don't know its really confusing. But for the Ansem and Diz thing, I think that Diz is Ansem's shell. Cause if you looked at the trailors for KH2 you'll see Diz's eye wich looks exactly like Ansem's, and at the end of the trailor Ansem returns. So yeah its confusing hard to concept. Damn you do a lot of thinking.
 

Americo

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But it's been confirmed that the leader of the Org (EM) is Ansem. I have a feeling that DiZ is just a shell that Ansem's Heart has put himself into. Ansem's heart was blinded by light so maybe that is the reason for the bandages. DiZ himself might just be a shell, like Riku was, and Ansem's Heart is controlling him, just like Riku again. We know Ansem can make the shell look like him, the whole time we fought him in KH1 he was actually in Riku's body.

As for Roxas, I think everything is fake. I think he is just a normal shell with Sora's memories (and some of his heart) put into him. The Org manipulates his memories (thanks to Namine again) to make him think he is member #13 and this allows them to have a Keyblade help them. This obviously happened a bit ago (since Roxas has had his memories for awhile it seems) so who really knows what is going on...
 

flamelord5

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ansem and DiZ are related at the very least, because the only part of DiZ we have really seen is his eye, and it looks EXACTLY like Ansems eye. I dont know if namine has fooled with Roxas' memories though...we've seen trailers with the two of them talking, and it doesnt look like theyre arguing, and it wouldnt make sense for them to be talking so normally unless they have been friends for awhile, or at least knew each other
 

riku'sheart

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OKay so Nanami meets Roxas first time in KH2. But the order probaly told Nanami to mess with Roxas memories and stuff to make it seem like he's the shell of sora. But the question is what's the purpose of the order evend doing that? I mean why do they want Roxas so badly? I know he can weild the keyblade. But there has to be another reason to their motavies. Is it because Riku is gone that there trying to find another way to get to Sora?
 

KayradeMashi

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Whoa, woah, woah...what now? So Roxas is in the Org? O.O Man, fall asleep for 8 hours and I miss info, yeesh.

1. He's proabably a made up shell o_O...or He isn't a shell afterall. I am so confuzzled..

2. Diz....I really don't know about him. I thought that he was Ansem's shell...but he could be a fake to throw off Sora, Riku and Roxas...o_O

3. I'll come back to you on this one. I need to think XD *thinks*
 

jonnyngo

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ansem explains it in his report, look at #13.... how shell exists:

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."


so, yes. if sora exists... also there exists a non-existent form of him... the "shell" in another world.
 

Americo

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jonnyngo said:
ansem explains it in his report, look at #13.... how shell exists:

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.

However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.
An in-between existence.
Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.

This mystery cannot be easily resolved.
The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.
Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."


so, yes. if sora exists... also there exists a non-existent form of him... the "shell" in another world.

Yes and no. What Ansem is saying is that when your Heart is taken by the darkness, your shell is sent somewhere else. So another you is created. He isn't saying there is another you all the time though. That would defeat the whole purpose.

When the Heart is taken by the Heartless, it is sent to Kingdom Hearts. There are some rare exceptions, like Ansem, where the Heart isn't. The shell is sent somewhere else, given the events probably to a world, Twilight Towns, since it seems all the "shells" are there. I'm getting side tracked though, the Shell has no memories of its past self normally, only the personality of its former self. Most shells turn into Nobodies it seems, though rare exceptions, where the Heart is very strong, it seems these Shells turn into living people, the cases being the Org Members and Roxas. These seem have some memories of there past, hence why the wish to get the Kingdom Hearts, to unlock their Hearts and become one again.

Anyways... That still doesn't really explain Sora. Sora has his shell. So what is Roxas?
 

Crimson Jazz

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1) When Sora lost his Heart and became a Heartless, his nobody was created, which I believe is Roxas. Why else would Namine say to Roxas "You are needed in order for Sora to become whole." And a Nobody is formed when a person with a strong Heart becomes a Heartless, which happened to Sora so that is how Roxas was possibly created.

2) I can't quite answer that

3) I can't quite answer that
 
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Americo

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Thats possible but he can't be Sora's shell. I thought Nobodies where the persons shell that came to life when the Heart was sent to Kingdom Hearts. Sora's Heart was being sent but called back by Kairi, so his Heart came back and was placed back into his Shell.
 

flamelord5

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but what if Roxas is like an after-image, because soras heart was so strong, kairi brought back part of it into sora or something and the other part went into Roxas?
 
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