About Kingdom Hearts and The Legend of Zelda... (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

I've always wondered this, was Kingdom Hearts inspired by The Legend of Zelda, I know, I've heard it was actually inspired by Mario, but I see more similarities with The Zelda series, like the treasure chest that are all over the place, a kid from a forest or an island that is chosen by a sword type weapon, that goes on an adventure, to stop a bad guy from obtaining ultimate power, from an item that grants ultimate power, and a princess with a powerful light inside her, and creatures of darkness, what are your thoughts? for the record this is only counting the first Kingdom Hearts, as for the Zelda series, I'll leave that up to you.

 

[Xblade13]

I've always wondered this, was Kingdom Hearts inspired by The Legend of Zelda, I know, I've heard it was actually inspired by Mario, but I see more similarities with The Zelda series, like the treasure chest that are all over the place, a kid from a forest or an island that is chosen by a sword type weapon, that goes on an adventure, to stop a bad guy from obtaining ultimate power, from an item that grants ultimate power, and a princess with a powerful light inside her, and creatures of darkness, what are your thoughts? for the record this is only counting the first Kingdom Hearts, as for the Zelda series, I'll leave that up to you.

The things you describe about the Legend of Zelda are what are known as "fantasy tropes". As in, quite a lot of epic fantasy works are based around one or more of those concepts, a lot of which go back as far as Excalibur and Arthurian legend. One could argue most of those tropes also apply to elements of Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and even Disney's own films to an extent.

The reference to Mario was more a need for Square Enix to make a game as revolutionary as Mario 64, which is why Kingdom Hearts 1 featured a bigger focus on platforming than later entries.

 

[vaderskywalker]

The things you describe about the Legend of Zelda are what are known as "fantasy tropes". As in, quite a lot of epic fantasy works are based around one or more of those concepts, a lot of which go back as far as Excalibur and Arthurian legend. One could argue most of those tropes also apply to elements of Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and even Disney's own films to an extent.

The reference to Mario was more a need for Square Enix to make a game as revolutionary as Mario 64, which is why Kingdom Hearts 1 featured a bigger focus on platforming than later entries.

Yeah but this exact combination of tropes in two games? that doesn't feel like a coincidence. As for the platforming thing, your telling me the Zelda series doesn't have platforming, at least the 3d ones?

 

[KudoTsurugi]

It really is just a coincidence. A lot of stuff in storytelling can also be linked to things like the hero's journey/ the man with a thousand faces.
Like Xblade said, a lot of the tropes in stories involving a chosen hero, creatures of darkness or a maiden of light or what have you, they have all shown up in a lot of fantasy stories, including Zelda and KH. I don’t think there’s anything more to it than that

 

[vaderskywalker]

It really is just a coincidence. A lot of stuff in storytelling can also be linked to things like the hero's journey/ the man with a thousand faces.
Like Xblade said, a lot of the tropes in stories involving a chosen hero, creatures of darkness or a maiden of light or what have you, they have all shown up in a lot of fantasy stories, including Zelda and KH. I don’t think there’s anything more to it than that

Fair enough, but what about the treasure chests at least? And why isn't the Zelda series considered a platformer, or at least the 3D ones?

 

[KudoTsurugi]

Fair enough, but what about the treasure chests at least? And why isn't the Zelda series considered a platformer, or at least the 3D ones?

Treasure chests are a thing in other fantasy/sci-fi/science-fantasy games too last I checked, like Final Fantasy, Dark Cloud, Xenoblade, Elder Scrolls and them Souls-bourne games. As for why Zelda’s not considered a platformer, I’d say it’s because it’s more of a dungeon crawler.

Yeah you can climb on things in the newer games but the main method of combat and puzzle solving is using weapons like the Master Sword, a bow and arrow, the occasional bomb and other tools. You’re not really jumping on top of enemies to squash or destroy them like you would in Mario or Sonic, nor are you using your whole body as a weapon like Crash Bandicoot. There can be elements of platforming in Zelda sometimes, sure, but it’s not really a major part of it.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Treasure chests are a thing in other fantasy/sci-fi/science-fantasy games too last I checked, like Final Fantasy, Dark Cloud, Xenoblade, Elder Scrolls and them Souls-bourne games. As for why Zelda’s not considered a platformer, I’d say it’s because it’s more of a dungeon crawler.

Yeah you can climb on things in the newer games but the main method of combat and puzzle solving is using weapons like the Master Sword, a bow and arrow, the occasional bomb and other tools. You’re not really jumping on top of enemies to squash or destroy them like you would in Mario or Sonic, nor are you using your whole body as a weapon like Crash Bandicoot. There can be elements of platforming in Zelda sometimes, sure, but it’s not really a major part of it.

Technically, KH1 also had puzzle elements, like the fire door to Merlin's house, or the puzzles in Hollow bastion, and the bombs, bow and arrows, and tools could be considered the eqeulevent (I dont think I spelled that right) of magic spells. Edit: there was one thing I forgot to mention shadow Sora is basically a copy of shadow Link from ocarina of time.

 

[TheBlindfoldedBirdwatcher]

I will be completely fair here. I do believe that there are some similarities between Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask and the first Kingdom Hearts at least in terms of mechanics because I first experienced the puppies sidequest in KH. When I got to Ocarina of Time with the Skulltulas, I was like, "no, not this again!"

Another thing is the targeting system, very Ocarina/Majora's Mask. And I'd say in NO WAY coming from Super Mario 64. I have played that game so many times that if I saw a similarity between it and KH, I'd spot it in a heartbeat (likely).

One thing (that I miss from the KH series) is the influence that puzzle-platformers like Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask, and the Banjo series had on it likely. It was that fun era of adventure and platforming.

Shadow Sora is another thing- yes, it's possible that's from Ocarina of Time (or Adventure of Link), but I say that reluctantly because Symphony of the Night also had a clone battle. Nevertheless, most of these games were from the late 90s that had that trope, so it's easy to see if it leaked in in some manner.

I'd argue that the plot is trickled down from Secret of Mana/FFIV/FFIX, not Legend of Zelda. (And I say that as someone who played Ocarina and a bit of Majora's Mask.) I've been looking at a lot of the elements (visual/mechanical/roles) from KH lately, and most of the stuff stems from FF stuff. I also think that Ocarina/Majora's Mask have different tones than KH, although there could still be some inspiration from there.

 

[BufferAqua]

I've always wondered this, was Kingdom Hearts inspired by The Legend of Zelda, I know, I've heard it was actually inspired by Mario, but I see more similarities with The Zelda series, like the treasure chest that are all over the place, a kid from a forest or an island that is chosen by a sword type weapon, that goes on an adventure, to stop a bad guy from obtaining ultimate power, from an item that grants ultimate power, and a princess with a powerful light inside her, and creatures of darkness, what are your thoughts? for the record this is only counting the first Kingdom Hearts, as for the Zelda series, I'll leave that up to you.

Honestly, OoC has influenced many action RPGs/puzzle games during that era because it was so ground-breaking, so it does not shock me if KH1 has borrowed from that trend. That being said, KH is still a fantasy series and uses many fantasy tropes, so I'd say its moreso that than direct OoC influence.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Honestly, OoC has influenced many action RPGs/puzzle games during that era because it was so ground-breaking, so it does not shock me if KH1 has borrowed from that trend. That being said, KH is still a fantasy series and uses many fantasy tropes, so I'd say its moreso that than direct OoC influence.

I'm sorry about this, but I just realized a mistake I made, I thought at first you meant Ocarina of time, but the initials don't line up with the title, so what does OoC mean?

 

[BufferAqua]

I'm sorry about this, but I just realized a mistake I made, I thought at first you meant Ocarina of time, but the initials don't line up with the title, so what does OoC mean?

Bahahaha, nah I meant Ocarina of Time. I confused that with the acronym for Out-of-character that's used in roleplay situations.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Bahahaha, nah I meant Ocarina of Time. I confused that with the acronym for Out-of-character that's used in roleplay situations.

oh, well still, sorry I didn't notice that sooner, I'm always checking for typos for myself, but somehow, I missed that one, sorry about that, could have let you know about it sooner if I had realized.