About sora's level... (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

Why does Sora keep getting reset after every game? this got old after KH2, and Aqua didn't start at level 1 in 0.2, so what are your thoughts?

 

[Sonofjafar]

Well the game would be far too easy if your LV stuck with you from game to game. Every character with exp would be op. Heck Sora alone would have a max lv of 600 (100 for each playable appearance)

 

[Ðari]

I see you're starting to understand what I referenced in the unpopular opinions thread.

Theres always some textbook event that happens in the games prologue or precursor to the game starting that usually initiates Sora getting reset.

-CoM it was the moment they stepped into the castle itself.
-KH2 the new threads = regrind skills and magic from scratch.
-DDD (maybe someone can explain this one, I've only played this entire game all the way through once at release and vaguely remember the reason for the reset regarding the MoM Exam)
-KH3 - The events that lead to Sora's capture placed him in a weakened state at the start of KH3, and a callback to KH2, with his new threads came a full skillset regrind while Character's like Pete diss him outright for being "punier" (LOL).

Oddly enough, Aqua technically was at the level she's always been and evidently still had access to her skillset. Even though time doesn't flow in the RoD, in theory you can say she "remained at the same level" for 10 years while traveling inside the RoD.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

KH4 will use the excuse that Sora used the Power of Waking this expending his life force and is now in a new reality with different rules, so he has to start from zero.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Well the game would be far too easy if your LV stuck with you from game to game. Every character with exp would be op. Heck Sora alone would have a max lv of 600 (100 for each playable appearance)

That's like saying Batman should have been weak at the beginning of Arkham City and Knight, or Sonic in every Sonic game, yeah, he starts out without his super form, but that's because that is for final boss stuff, he's still very powerful even without his super form, I just don't think levels for characters should be canon, or at least there shouldn't be a canon reason for starting at level 1, it just seems ridicules.(I probably spelled that wrong.)

I see you're starting to understand what I referenced in the unpopular opinions thread.

Yeah, I've always seen this problem, I just kept forgetting to bring it up, but you reminded me, so thank you.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

That's like saying Batman should have been weak at the beginning of Arkham City and Knight, or Sonic in every Sonic game, yeah, he starts out without his super form, but that's because that is for final boss stuff, he's still very powerful even without his super form, I just don't think levels for characters should be canon, or at least there shouldn't be a canon reason for starting at level 1, it just seems ridicules.(I probably spelled that wrong.)

Yeah, I've always seen this problem, I just kept forgetting to bring it up, but you reminded me, so thank you.

It’s stupid in as far as it is wild they have really approached it like this but it is how they have decided to approach it. Every game thus far there has been a reason for why Sora or whoever is playable is at the level they are at.

KH1 - New to it all
CoM - Rules of Castle Oblivion
KH2 - Sora’s memory loss and year of sleep
Days - Roxas is a new Nobody
Coded - Data Sora is just a babey
BBS - TAV are in a new journey
KH3D - The Mark of Mastery required them to start from zero and learn from the Dream Eaters
0.2 - Aqua isn’t set to LVL 1
KH3 - Sora getting fucked over by Xehanort and needing to be woken up by the Power of Waking caused him to have to build himself back up again

And now we are at KH4 and Sora has ultimately thrown himself into a place where he will likely be reset again because he technically died and crossed over into a new reality with new rules. He also got beat the fuck up by Yozora (unless the game chooses the ending where Sora wins).

It’s clear this is absolutely thought over by the dev team and isn’t just something randomly done. They try to follow the structure of the story, or make the story work to reset the player’s level.

I think eventually they won’t be able to do this anymore and will eliminate traditional leveling.

 

[AegisXIII]

COM was a missed oportunity to decrease the level of Sora as we progress instead of increasing it.

 

[Ðari]

COM was a missed oportunity to decrease the level of Sora as we progress instead of increasing it.

I sit here and complain about Sora remembering NOTHING about Castle of Oblivion, but that version of him was my least favorite. Missed opportunity to see two different personalities collide and for him to actually be remorseful for how awful he was to Donald and Goofy, but hey, I'm not the writing team.

 

[Clue.Less]

COM was a missed oportunity to decrease the level of Sora as we progress instead of increasing it.

Now I want to figure out how that could work in terms of game design. I unironically love that concept XD

 

[AegisXIII]

Now I want to figure out how that could work in terms of game design. I unironically love that concept XD

The game would become harder and harder as you progress as ennemies like shadows would feel more powerful. Then, the question would be whether you would loose sleights or not. XD

 

[Clue.Less]

The game would become harder and harder as you progress as ennemies like shadows would feel more powerful. Then, the question would be whether you would loose sleights or not. XD

"To lose is to find" --- so I guess you would sacrifice levels in exchange for sleights?

 

[AegisXIII]

"To lose is to find" --- so I guess you would sacrifice levels in exchange for sleights?

That's so beautiful.

 

[Face My Fears]

That's like saying Batman should have been weak at the beginning of Arkham City and Knight, or Sonic in every Sonic game, yeah, he starts out without his super form, but that's because that is for final boss stuff, he's still very powerful even without his super form, I just don't think levels for characters should be canon, or at least there shouldn't be a canon reason for starting at level 1, it just seems ridicules.(I probably spelled that wrong.)

Yeah, I've always seen this problem, I just kept forgetting to bring it up, but you reminded me, so thank you.

I mean, it's just basic video game design. If Sora starts with everything unlocked, where's the fun in levelling up? The same goes for Batman in the Arkham games. Why doesn't he have all the gadgets from Arkham Origins to Arkham City in Arkham Knight?

I think it really just boils down to whether what we do while fighting on the field is actually what Sora is capable of doing (or does) during the story. Because the amount of stuff that Sora can do by the Keyblade Graveyard in KH3 compared to what Aqua, Mickey or Riku can do seems like a huge disparity, and quite frankly questionable if Sora can do that IN CANON. Why does Sora run and only swing his keyblade during cutscenes instead of going into full god-mode and stopping whatever problems he has to deal with in a cutscene?

 

[vaderskywalker]

I mean, it's just basic video game design. If Sora starts with everything unlocked, where's the fun in levelling up? The same goes for Batman in the Arkham games. Why doesn't he have all the gadgets from Arkham Origins to Arkham City in Arkham Knight?

I think it really just boils down to whether what we do while fighting on the field is actually what Sora is capable of doing (or does) during the story. Because the amount of stuff that Sora can do by the Keyblade Graveyard in KH3 compared to what Aqua, Mickey or Riku can do seems like a huge disparity, and quite frankly questionable if Sora can do that IN CANON. Why does Sora run and only swing his keyblade during cutscenes instead of going into full god-mode and stopping whatever problems he has to deal with in a cutscene?

I think all keyblade wielders are capable of those feets (I'm not sure I'm using the terminology right), but I think Sora is the only one willing to go all out compared to the others, and your right not everything needs to be unlocked at the start, but there are some spells that I think should be unlocked from the start, like cure, fire and thunder, but again we don't need a canon explanation for why he starts at level 1, they could just start us off at level 1 without any explanation, that's how most video games do it, for example, you know the unlockable skills in Spider-Man 2018, well it's getting a seqeul, and I'm pretty sure your going to have to unlock them again, and without a canon reset, that, to me, is how it should be done.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I think all keyblade wielders are capable of those feets (I'm not sure I'm using the terminology right), but I think Sora is the only one willing to go all out compared to the others, and your right not everything needs to be unlocked at the start, but there are some spells that I think should be unlocked from the start, like cure, fire and thunder, but again we don't need a canon explanation for why he starts at level 1, they could just start us off at level 1 without any explanation, that's how most video games do it, for example, you know the unlockable skills in Spider-Man 2018, well it's getting a seqeul, and I'm pretty sure your going to have to unlock them again, and without a canon reset, that, to me, is how it should be done.

Idk, I’m sure there will probably be some sort of “actually Peter’s got a new suit” or “gets beat tf up” reason behind him having to rebuild his skill tree.

Insomniac did it for R&C. Because Ratchet got pulled through the rift to another reality, he had to go find new guns and gear again.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Idk, I’m sure there will probably be some sort of “actually Peter’s got a new suit” or “gets beat tf up” reason behind him having to rebuild his skill tree.

Insomniac did it for R&C. Because Ratchet got pulled through the rift to another reality, he had to go find new guns and gear again.

What about Miles? remember, he got his own game too?

 

[AegisXIII]

What about Miles? remember, he got his own game too?

Miles never fought crime in the original Spider-Man so he was a newbie.
But in Spider-Man 2, that's where we will get to see how they do it.
I also remember God of War 2 (the one from two decades ago) where Kratos started the game as a god and when lost his powers, you could see the hp bar decreasing to level 1. Great stuff.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

What about Miles? remember, he got his own game too?

He’ll probably get a new suit, too. Or they will not make him immediately playable.

 

[Face My Fears]

I think all keyblade wielders are capable of those feets (I'm not sure I'm using the terminology right), but I think Sora is the only one willing to go all out compared to the others, and your right not everything needs to be unlocked at the start, but there are some spells that I think should be unlocked from the start, like cure, fire and thunder, but again we don't need a canon explanation for why he starts at level 1, they could just start us off at level 1 without any explanation, that's how most video games do it, for example, you know the unlockable skills in Spider-Man 2018, well it's getting a seqeul, and I'm pretty sure your going to have to unlock them again, and without a canon reset, that, to me, is how it should be done.

I kinda like that there's always a reason why he starts at Level 1. It's pretty clear that the reasoning will be that he "died" which is probably more reasonable than any of the others.

I actually think starting out without magic helps the player gradually understand the game. It teaches them how to play without the magic, then get slowly introduced to new mechanics along the way.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I kinda like that there's always a reason why he starts at Level 1. It's pretty clear that the reasoning will be that he "died" which is probably more reasonable than any of the others.

I actually think starting out without magic helps the player gradually understand the game. It teaches them how to play without the magic, then get slowly introduced to new mechanics along the way.

Sorry for the late reply, really had to think about this, why not just scale up the enemies in every game instead of starting Sora off at level 1? that way there's always a reason to level up without having to have a canon reason for it.