• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Am I the only one that though the the first had a terrible storyline?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Allister Rose

French Lover
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
10,344
kh2 had potential, but it wasnt structured as kh1.

for example axel coming back to life once again just to kidnap kairi to see if roxas would appear. that seemed pretty random.

plus the disney in it was pretty dumb, and the main enemies just seemed random aswell.
 

Allister Rose

French Lover
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
10,344
Axel's motivation in kidnapped Kairi actually made lots of sense o.o; and what do you mean "coming back to life"? When did he die? In Twilight Town? He faded out.

yeah, i know but i didnt know how exactly roxas was going to come back just by kidnapping kairi.

also in COM he shouldv'e died, but didn't which was ok, but in twilight town, they only brought him back for fanservice (nomura admitted it).

still some members defintely needed some character development. the remaining nobodies could have had a bigger impact on the worlds.
 

SilverJ-17

spams bombs, not posts
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
3,042
Awards
4
Age
35
Location
Florida
That's one of the main things I found lacking in KH2, Smile, thanks for mentioning it. I swear.. even my most favorite member had fairly weak character development, at least in KH2. In general, KH2's character development sucked.
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
By kidnapping Kairi, he'd bring inner unrest to Sora who was already going through a hard time. Chances of him turning into a Heartless again all on his own - and thus casting Roxas off again - would go noticeably up.
 

.Oji

赤いテキスト
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,988
Location
王子駅
Ah, destinykh pretty much nailed it.

Storytelling in Kingdom Hearts 2 being better than the first game is objectively false; it traded the more simple, logical form of storytelling in KH for a narrative so incompetently told--it's mind-boggling how anyone could consider it better and keep a straight-face.

Realism in the Organization? They had little to no intrigue in KH2, unfortunately being nothing more than hooded nimrods. The piss poor treatment of DiZ (yes, the possessed Riku tidbit was cliche, yet vengeful fucking DiZ is so innovative. Of course, funny how you loved it before); it was a cluster of nonsense in KH2. What you call "intricacy," I call sloppy, stupid shit. It had potential, to be sure, but Nojima wiped his ass with it. Naturally.

Also, hi Smile. ;D
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
I still say most people consider KH2 to be more complex and mysterious simply because less was told.
KH1 as I said before introduced development for both sides and kept answering its own questions, like where did Alice disappear to or who ended up snatching Jasmine from Agrabah.
Or why Sora saw visions of Kairi as opposed to Roxas being Ven's carbon copy.
Given, KH1 had to be as self contained as possible in that sense as they weren't certain there'd be a sequel, but it's not like they answered and exposed everything, still leaving us with plenty of questions, an urge for more and of course with Riku and Mickey locked up behind the DtD and Sora floating away to look after them, they could do whatever the deuce they wanted since the ending was open (thank gods I had both CoM and KH2 on me when I finished that game T_T;;; would've been horrid otherwise).
KH2 just didn't tell us anything, riding on the false impression that was mystery.

Hi Oji. Long time.
 

rokudamia2

Dream eater ally.
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
3,753
Awards
5
Age
31
we had to wait for three games and a final mix to get awnsers for those questions
 

Xammag

New member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
481
Location
Where Nothing Gathers
I failed to notice where there was meat. Was it when Sora stood aside and watched Simba fight Scar on his own, or when you had to beat Ursula by singing because Ariel forgot she was not to be trusted?
Oh I know how about the zero screen time for the actual plot elements being Riku, Namine, Diz and... well yeah, the Organization?



I'll tell you right off the bat why KH1 >>>> KH2 to me on that aspect.
Riku screen time.
And it has nothing to do with me being a Riku fangirl since at the time I didn't like him all that much.
We got to see both Sora and Riku screen time and thus, got proper insight on both sides. Even the Disney villains got more insight and development, both in their plotting as well as in their own worlds.
Hell, they interacted in regards to each other as well, like with Hades calling Riku out on not helping Jafar when SDG fought him. You don't get that with the Organization. They each show up in their lone worlds, detached from having any true significance to the plot and then they die, without really meaning anything.
Aside from Sora going through a mental breakdown in Hollow Bastion which he already did without Demyx's help, what good did that Demyx fight have in the long run?
Squat. It was just... there because they needed to kill Demyx off and they had nowhere better to put it at.
At least the Disney villains had relation to the worlds they showed up at by definition - Jafar in Agrabah, Hades in Olympus, etc.
Why Demyx in Olympus? Why? No reason whatsoever.



It might not have been too intent on messing things up, but it was pulled off very well and we got to see both sides of the story. Also, the various developments on all fronts was wonderful.
Traverse Town as home back.
Wonderland introducing the PoHs.
Deep Jungle showing us people falling to Darkness with Clayton and some needed SDG development.
Olympus had Hades and introduced Cloud.
Agrabah got things going. Another PoH, more Disney Villains explanations and insight. Riku cameo we learned of later.
Monstro was lots and lots of SoRiku development.
Atlantica had more insight on the whole Heartless situation, and for the first time - insight about the Keyblade itself.
Halloween Town is about the most useless world in the game but it raised the question of what the hell is a Heart anyway?
Neverland was pure plot, as was Hollow Bastion and the end of the world.

So excuse me if while they weren't the most unexplained things ever, if I could do with KH1 a lot better than I can do with basically all worlds west of Disney Castle in KH2 xD;



And yet for the first time you play it, without knowing the shit fest that would cause, it's one of the game's biggest twists that unless you really thought about all those Kairi visions throughout the games, came out of nowhere. You mock it no in retrospect but it's without justification. That bit was a good twist and one of Kairi's finest plot moments in the series.



At least in KH1 the Disney had meaning and value unlike aforementioned Simba vs. Scar fight. And then they remembered this wasn't the Lion King, it was KH, and we had our token boss fight.
And so what if the Org are square characters? With how much they moved and did and WERE SHOWN, they were redundant save for maybe Saix and Axel.
And the true plots were, again, missing, being Namine and Riku.



I just do hope you realize the irony of this as without KH1 and CoM, the little KH2 had to give to us wouldn't have been there.



...I'll be blunt.
This explains so much.

You say Olympus introduced Cloud and had Hades. Um, ok? Why is Haloween town useless, it introduced Jack and had Oogie Boogie. See how that works out?

Why not have Demyx in Olympus? Org.13 can go anywhere in a snap. Who was better positioned there? Seems like your just picking out things that really have no reason not to be.

Also, you're playing way to much off of Disney Villians. Frikkin obviously Jafar is in Agrabah and Hades in Olympus. It's their goddamn movie. Completely unfair comparisons.

Org. 13 was getting killed off decisively. In CoM, Saix was making room for himself and Axel and killing off traitors. In KH2, Saix was toying with Sora the whole time, Xemnas just waiting til everyone else had died so he could have Kingdom Hearts for himself. Not EVERY SINGLE MEMBER has a much significance as another (namely Axel, Saix, Xemnas, Xigbar).

CoM is namely essnetial for all of the following games (Days booklet did a great job at explaining all the previous games, KH2 wasn't as good). And good lord people, anyone know what KHwiki is? ANYONE? If they don't spoon feed you every part of every previous game, maybe you can get a goddamn summary? Maybe, if that search function doesn't exhaust you too much.

I don't see what you are saying about the Lion King fight. You saying Simba should've had his fight with Scar and square took that away, or that it should've been a boss fight? Frankly, I think it was a fine fight. He became a heartless, giving at least a reason as to why it didn't end EXACTLY like the movie.

Course, I'm a bit biased here and defensive, but you're arguement is heavily one sided as well.
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
Why not have Demyx in Olympus? Org.13 can go anywhere in a snap. Who was better positioned there? Seems like your just picking out things that really have no reason not to be.

Saix had plot value wherever the hell he went.
Luxord fit in well with the pirates so I can at least give him that.
Xaldin was after recruitments.
What the hell was up with Demyx, mm?

Also, you're playing way to much off of Disney Villians. Frikkin obviously Jafar is in Agrabah and Hades in Olympus. It's their goddamn movie. Completely unfair comparisons.

Not really, no. Because they had a reason to be where they were - by definition.
It's obvious and stupid even but it has a good point.

Not EVERY SINGLE MEMBER has a much significance as another (namely Axel, Saix, Xemnas, Xigbar).

So you're saying it was alright Demyx and Luxord had... none?
And Xaldin had zero active impact?
Hell as much impact as Xigbar might have all around, in KH2 he was just another has-been.

And good lord people, anyone know what KHwiki is? ANYONE?

Yes.
It's ridiculously untrustworthy.

I don't see what you are saying about the Lion King fight. You saying Simba should've had his fight with Scar and square took that away, or that it should've been a boss fight? Frankly, I think it was a fine fight. He became a heartless, giving at least a reason as to why it didn't end EXACTLY like the movie.

AT LEAST 90% of most worlds in KH2 were based on the Disney movie.
In KH1 you didn't care because the overall plot was integrated into it.
I didn't fight Scar's freaking debatable HEARTLESS in a game about NOBODIES.

Course, I'm a bit biased here and defensive, but you're arguement is heavily one sided as well.

One sided =\= biased, I do hope you realized the difference in terms.
I don't have to support both sides to not be biased :\ it's just that lol and behold, KH2 sucked, imo, compared to KH1 in every aspect save for the gameplay's glitter aspect.
And the camera. All hail KH2's camera.
But that's about it. Storytelling, character development, story structure, basic involvement...
It's like Nojima took KH1 - to a dark alley, mutilated its body after he raped it, raped it again, and then left it to rot, thus giving us KH2 as we know it.
And all of this because Watanabe was busy elsewhere, giving us the masterpiece which is CoM.
 

Xammag

New member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
481
Location
Where Nothing Gathers
Ah, destinykh pretty much nailed it.

Storytelling in Kingdom Hearts 2 being better than the first game is objectively false; it traded the more simple, logical form of storytelling in KH for a narrative so incompetently told--it's mind-boggling how anyone could consider it better and keep a straight-face.

Realism in the Organization? They had little to no intrigue in KH2, unfortunately being nothing more than hooded nimrods. The piss poor treatment of DiZ (yes, the possessed Riku tidbit was cliche, yet vengeful fucking DiZ is so innovative. Of course, funny how you loved it before); it was a cluster of nonsense in KH2. What you call "intricacy," I call sloppy, stupid shit. It had potential, to be sure, but Nojima wiped his ass with it. Naturally.

Also, hi Smile. ;D

Is it cliche that an old man betrayed by people who are essential his children and trapped in darkness for who knows how long is angry and blind with hatred? I would call it natural.

Honestly, Org. 13 got a lot better treatment in terms of development in CoM, as you got those scenes that weren't possible (or at least, weren't presented) in KH2.

I haven't played Kh1 in awhile, but I agree Riku got better development and time with Disney Villians.

I mean, I want to say that Org. 13 can't even be compared to Rikus relationships. They are so many different people with different aspirations, some far more important than another. It's an unfair comparison in that regard, but I can understand why people would feel betrayed by a sudden change in antagonists development.

Saix had plot value wherever the hell he went.
Luxord fit in well with the pirates so I can at least give him that.
Xaldin was after recruitments.
What the hell was up with Demyx, mm?



Not really, no. Because they had a reason to be where they were - by definition.
It's obvious and stupid even but it has a good point.



So you're saying it was alright Demyx and Luxord had... none?
And Xaldin had zero active impact?
Hell as much impact as Xigbar might have all around, in KH2 he was just another has-been.



Yes.
It's ridiculously untrustworthy.



AT LEAST 90% of most worlds in KH2 were based on the Disney movie.
In KH1 you didn't care because the overall plot was integrated into it.
I didn't fight Scar's freaking debatable HEARTLESS in a game about NOBODIES.



One sided =\= biased, I do hope you realized the difference in terms.
I don't have to support both sides to not be biased :\ it's just that lol and behold, KH2 sucked, imo, compared to KH1 in every aspect save for the gameplay's glitter aspect.
And the camera. All hail KH2's camera.
But that's about it. Storytelling, character development, story structure, basic involvement...
It's like Nojima took KH1 - to a dark alley, mutilated its body after he raped it, raped it again, and then left it to rot, thus giving us KH2 as we know it.
And all of this because Watanabe was busy elsewhere, giving us the masterpiece which is CoM.

Alright, from top to bottom:

Xaldin could've went after Simba too, but he decided on Beast. It was a decision, nothing fit him there in terms of his own character to the world.

I mean, I could go down a list of why Demyx should not have been somewhere, but an equally satisfying list of why he should be somewhere could be made as well. He could have been anywhere, his significance is a comical disposition and a boss fight, as well as an insight as to how Nobodies can act like they have emotions (or for some theories, do in fact have emotions).

Well, I mean, of course they have reason to be there. No one can/would argue with you as to why Jafar shouldn't be in his movie world, why Hades should be in Atlantis or something.

I didn't say they had none, but less. I mean, Xaldin had significance, a different perspective on their mindsets, but moreso than Demyx imo, who had much less than Saix, who had about the same amount as Axel and Xemnas. It can be argued, but thats my opinion. (I did like Xaldin though.)

Seriously? Khwiki is going to lie to you about the summary of a game? One of their 2 main games? Maybe on like the week of release, but they even waited awhile after the Justintv feeds were done before they put up BBS info.

I don't really know how to respond. I never argued about Disney worlds. The game is about the pursuits of Nobodies and mainly Nobodies. There can't be one Heartless boss? Not one? Even when it takes a Heartless to make a Nobody in the first place? Isn't that exactly what Xaldin was trying to do to Beast? Lighten up.

Main Entry: one-sided
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: biased
Synonyms:
colored, discriminatory, favorably, inclined, influenced, partisan, predisposed, prejudiced, unequal, unfair, unjust

One-sided Synonym | Synonym of One-sided and Antonym of One-sided at Thesaurus.com

CoM was my favorite game, basically because I was young and impressionable and spent a large amount of time on it.

KH2 wasn't that bad. I thought it was a given that if you didn't play CoM, you'd be far more lost with KH2 than if you did. Character development was done much better in CoM, and KH2 was kind've like mixing the remnants of CoM with new Disney worlds and plot. So yeah, it was bad. But it wasn't terrible.
 
Last edited:

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
Is it cliche that an old man betrayed by people who are essential his children and trapped in darkness for who knows how long is angry and blind with hatred? I would call it natural.

He talked about Riku in the cliche aspect.
The non cliche, being Diz, got zero attention in KH2. And a poor redemption act.

Honestly, Org. 13 got a lot better treatment in terms of development in CoM, as you got those scenes that weren't possible (or at least, weren't presented) in KH2.

It's the "weren't presented" part we're arguing against. And you're kind of agreeing with us here xD;

I mean, I want to say that Org. 13 can't even be compared to Rikus relationships. They are so many different people with different aspirations, some far more important than another. It's an unfair comparison in that regard, but I can understand why people would feel betrayed by a sudden change in antagonists development.

Not really. Even in KH1, the Disney villains had differences in importances. But they all were still out there, still presented, still explained. And they still were introduced despite there not being that much of a need for it because we all knew them or at least should've known them from the movies.
The Organization were "lol villains" characters that came out of nowhere.

Also, there's a reason why there are "Edit" and "M.Q" buttons on posts. Use them appropriately please as double posting is against the rules.
 

7thspade

New member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
164
Location
Everywhere
"Terrible" sounds a little over the top to me. I do like the second game better, but I think both have good story lines.
The first KH didn't have the mysteries that the second game had, but the second really lacked the emotional aspect the first game had. I still find it very sweet how Sora literally stabbed himself in the chest to save Kairi and the other princesses.
In KH2 the only thing that came close to that was when Goofy was hit on the head by a crystal. That would have been a lame death and it was a really poor plot twist, because you saw through it. The very moment I saw that scene, I was like "Goofy isn't dead. Who honestly dies (In a story) from getting hit in the head by a falling crystal?"
 

493pokemon1

New member
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
855
Location
Florida,USA, North America,Earth, Solar System, Mi
Don't get me wrong, I like the first one a lot. When I first got it I adored it because of it's strong emotional punch and mixture of dark atmosphere and a child-like innocence (the pseudo-suicide scene and the ending made me break a tear, no joke). But playing it again, now that the emotional effect has worn out, I realized that it really is quite bad. Game-play wise it's better than 2, no contest; you actually had to use strategy and the bosses were challenging (Oh God the Sephiroth battle!)

Whilst the second wasn't perfect (Maleficent turning into a joke, the Heartless inexplicably returning), at the very least it sported more intricacy and had some meat on it's bones. Diz's want for revenge (or "revenggggggggggggge" as he puts it), the Organization's motives and want to become human, all felt more thoughtful and gave the game a sense of realism that the first game didn't have. It felt like every plot point in the first game could be described with some lame vague cliche like "he gave into the darkness," or "he lost his heart." It didn't feel real to me. I nearly puked out vomit when possesed Riku told Sora in his serious dark voice that Kairi's heart was inside Sora. Yikes, could you get anymore cliche? And the balance between Square and Disney was way off kilter. The only Square characters were the three main ones, Sora, riku and Kairi and even they struck me as more Disney-eque to me. Ansem was a mature threatening Square villain, but by the time he showed up after hoards of Disney characters it was too little too late.

THose are disney characters

A lot of people say the first had a better story and I simply don't see it. I still love the first one because of it's unqiue blend of Final Fantasy and Disney motifs, but the story doesn't really start star until the second one (haven't played Chain of Memories)

Obviously you are going to not like the storyplot after you played itand probably know the lines. Anyway, it isnt any real reson you should like it anyway, for the fact that the game is made for younger people. Yes it gets cliche, for the fact thta this game was more disney, but unlike in KHII the Disney worlds connect. THey have an influence in the plot, not just filler. to say the truth you just grew up. You are no longer welcome in Neverland.
 

Sora^Fan

New member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
478
Age
32
Location
7th Heaven Bar
How can you say that?
Yes, it kind of had a cliche story but if KH had somethig, anything at all..it was that "strong emotional punch" you find to be lacking..that's what makes KH such a great game..the emotional appeal.
 

Allister Rose

French Lover
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
10,344
i actually think kh introduced some original elements. riku definitely spinned things around. it was suppose to give us a deja vu feel of the disney movies. the first kh did something none of the other kh games have done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top