Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BBS)

[hemmoheikkinen]

Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BBS)

Warning! This analysis will contain spoilers from KH Dream Drop Distance and Birth by Sleep.

Apologies if this scene has been analyzed million times, but some stuff occurred to me. I got inspired and I decided to wrote an analysis with a burning passion, and thought it would be cool to share it also here.
So the scene which I am referring to is the one in KH2FM, where Xemans gives Roxas his name. So first Xemnas summons the name Sora in front of Roxas:

So the letters in Sora`s name are blue. I like to think the blue color is also an reference to Sora`s name, which means sky(blue color, the color of the sky = Sora). So then Xemnas rearranges the letters, and we get this:

After the rearrange, the color of the name changes. The different name is a pretty obvious sing for Roxas new identity. Now I am being named Roxas, not Sora(different name, different person). The color change is also an sign of this in my opinion. When you watch the scene, the color of the name changes only after when Roxas says out loud his new name(so he has accepted this new identity). Also Roxas title in the 358/2 Days goes like this:” Awakened in the flickering light of Dusk.” So Sora`s name being colored the same as the blue sky we see in Destiny Islands, Roxas name represents the twilight/dusk sky of Twilight Town. Another mark of a new identity.
So most of this stuff about Roxas different new self has been pretty poetic and positive, right? Unfortunately, there is also on negative meaning. In Dream Drop Distance we learn that all of the original Organization XIII members were planned to become new vessels for Xehanort. The Nobodies were marked with an X which meant the abandoning of their old identities, but also that they were vessels candidates for Mister Oldnort. Some were not good enough, some were suitable. Now, let`s look Roxas naming ceremony with this perspective in mind:

As you can see here, the other letters of the name are still blue, but the freaking X, a.ka The Recusant`s Sigil, is yellow. This yellow color spreads to all of the other letters when Roxas says his name. I like to think that the yellow color invading to the other letters is representation of the “poisoning” nature of the Recusant. Now you have been marked as vessel, soon you will belong to me. Also what is the color of Xehanort`s yes? Yeah, it is yellow(or gold if you wanna be precise). And we all now what happens to the persons eye color, when Xehanort`s heart piece starts to corrupt the user. I just think it is very interesting, that the X`s color is the same as Xehanort`s eyes.
Also a funny note: the X is perfectly in the middle, leaving two letters to each side: R and O to the left, S an A to the right. The perfect balance, and MX`s is obsessed about balance(well he talks about the Tyranny of Light and balance, but I think his ideals were corrupted in the way).

What do you guys think? (please have mercy, I am still a noob in stuff like this)

 

[Chuman]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

I'd also like to point out, the rescuants symbol appears on the clothing of all vessels, which roxas clearly has for a necklace. Take from this what you will, which might explain why roxas still needs to be saved despite joining with sora, or what made sora a target of xehanort, besides being the missing variable.

 

[Lonbilly]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Well, it is fairly common knowledge that Xehanort planned on using Roxas as a vessel (and Xion, though eventually it became a "Xion needs to eat Roxas and blahblahblah" plot but that;s unrelated). However, we do know that the Norting process didn't stick/was never done (we don't actually know if it was done), since Xehanort himself talks about how Roxas wasn't a viable option, so next was Riku, and when he proved too resistant, Sora became the next target.

It is interesting to see that spin on the scene however. While not initially intended to be viewed that way, it does work with the plot Nomura introduced in DDD. Now I have a whole new perspective when viewing this scene.

 

[Chuman]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

It's great whenever I see something Nomura wrote in 10 years ago and another 3 years come together without having the slightest clue of the other. Almost as if he planned it.

 

[Lonbilly]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

It's great whenever I see something Nomura wrote in 10 years ago and another 3 years come together without having the slightest clue of the other. Almost as if he planned it.

Spoiler Show

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

since Xehanort himself talks about how Roxas wasn't a viable option.

Xehanort did say that however only in light of Roxas becoming "too aware of himself" as in that Roxas was developing an own, independent identity (and thus a heart) so fast that he ceased to be a viable option.
Him openly rebelling (and then returning to Sora) just drove the last nail into the coffin of that issue.

Xehanort starts with saying
"Roxas... Now, there was a worthy candidate."

, which was definitely true by the time of the scene analyzed here and for quite some time after since Roxas was more or less an empty, malleable slate. Ventus' heart may have been there, but it was inactive and asleep, not interfering with anything.
Notice how Roxas, even after becoming more "responsive" and acting less than a Zombie, still loyally carried out anything the Organisation ordered him to do and was pretty easy to control for the first half of 358/2 Days?

Saix takes note of that, too:

Axel failed to report that the imposter and Xion are working together.
Instead, that news came from Roxas. The boy is far more easily handled
than Axel, but now Axel has captured Xion and returned her to us. His
motives are impossible to read. Our plans can be altered if necessary,
but doing so can only delay their realization.

One could even go so far and claim that out of all the original Organisation members except Xigbar and Saix, Roxas initially was the most promising and worthy vessel candidate of all.

As Xemnas revealed most of the experiements were conducted to eventually convince/force people to throw away/lose their hearts in order to leave their vessels ripe to be possessed by Xehanort.
With the events in BBS (and Terra's implied continuing resistance) Xehanort had learned that it was far too strenuous and exhausting to control a vessel while constantly battling the original "owner" for dominance.
While he may have been able to confidently fight that inner battle with Terra, I doubt that even he would have been able to sufficiently do that in thirteen vessels at once.

Thus he came up with the idea to make the intended vessels Nobodies. Yet, he knew that due to their memories still being available they may eventually regain an identity and grow a new heart, which he sought to undermine with the whole "you cannot truly feel-it's only your memories playing tricks on you"-brainwashing combo.
Roxas on the other hand had no memories at the start and was thus the ideal candidate to be molded into the "perfect" vessel at first. Ventus' fractured heart within him and his constant connection to Sora himself though made Roxas also the one with the highest (and fastest) potential to grow an own heart and become a new person on his own as both Xemnas and Ansem the Wise state in DDD that connections to other hearts are the fastest (and only sure-fire) way to give birth to and nuture a new heart.
Add on top his quick bonding with both Axel and Xion and it is no surprise why Roxas soon was more "human" than any of the other, older Organisation members

Had Xemnas decided to take Roxas under his personal tutelage, Roxas may have indeed have become that vessel since if he had been under Xemnas' thumb, he would never have bonded with Axel and Xion and the Superior could have found countermeasures to the influence of Roxas' connection to Sora's heart and maybe have even done something about Ven's sleeping heart.

In hindsight, it seems to be a huge mistake/missed opportunity on Xemnas' part that he had not decided to "mold" Roxas himself on his own terms, at least when considering Xehanort's plans. Who knows, maybe there's a reason Xemnas did not "take care" of Roxas himself.

Looking at that though in context with BBS, if Xemnas had been really nearly 100% Xehanort, Roxas could probably have become another abomination like Vanitas...

 

[gamerobber7]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Nice attention to detail. I hadn't noticed the color change. I like how you put it that the X "poisoned" the other letters and the whole name changed into that color.

 

[hlc1988]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Well, it is fairly common knowledge that Xehanort planned on using Roxas as a vessel (and Xion, though eventually it became a "Xion needs to eat Roxas and blahblahblah" plot but that;s unrelated). However, we do know that the Norting process didn't stick/was never done (we don't actually know if it was done), since Xehanort himself talks about how Roxas wasn't a viable option, so next was Riku, and when he proved too resistant, Sora became the next target.

It is interesting to see that spin on the scene however. While not initially intended to be viewed that way, it does work with the plot Nomura introduced in DDD. Now I have a whole new perspective when viewing this scene.

Actually my understanding is that Riku was the original choice for a vessel (KH1 and CoM being the attempts to 'nort' him) and then it was Roxas (in 358/2 days) and then Sora (DDD).

 

[Audo]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Actually my understanding is that Riku was the original choice for a vessel (KH1 and CoM being the attempts to 'nort' him) and then it was Roxas (in 358/2 days) and then Sora (DDD).

While it can be a bit confusing given time travel weirdness and the way things are talked about (especially YMX's convo with Riku), but technically all of the original Organization were the "original" choices for vessels, with Riku (and then Sora) actually being part of the "backup" choices, right? Xemnas didn't intend for all of the original Organization to be useless vessels, the idea was that they would all serve that purpose, it's just that they had the foresight to come up with a backup plan in case it didn't work. So even though Riku is technically sought after before Roxas due to the timeline, Roxas was technically the first choice before Riku...

Time travel =____=;;

EDIT: Although, I suppose one could argue that YMX intended for Roxas to also be used as part of the backup vessels (and thus making the backup vessels Riku->Roxas->Sora). But that's a little... eh?

 

[Riku-KH]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Actually my understanding is that Riku was the original choice for a vessel (KH1 and CoM being the attempts to 'nort' him) and then it was Roxas (in 358/2 days) and then Sora (DDD).

Yes. It was originally Riku... and right after CoM, he moved down to Roxas I believe.
You sure picked up a lot of details with that video! If we all looked that closely to every scene, we would know more mysteries. I too have always figured if XehaSnort had a color, it would have to be yellow. So that does kinda make sense!

 

[hlc1988]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

While it can be a bit confusing given time travel weirdness and the way things are talked about (especially YMX's convo with Riku), but technically all of the original Organization were the "original" choices for vessels, with Riku (and then Sora) actually being part of the "backup" choices, right? Xemnas didn't intend for all of the original Organization to be useless vessels, the idea was that they would all serve that purpose, it's just that they had the foresight to come up with a backup plan in case it didn't work. So even though Riku is technically sought after before Roxas due to the timeline, Roxas was technically the first choice before Riku...

Time travel =____=;;

EDIT: Although, I suppose one could argue that YMX intended for Roxas to also be used as part of the backup vessels (and thus making the backup vessels Riku->Roxas->Sora). But that's a little... eh?

What YMX says, suggests at least to me, is that Roxas was a back-up. Riku was the original choice - but he didn't get to the point where Xemnas could induct him into the Organisation. If Riku had been fully-norted by Ansem, then he would have been, I guess?

YMX: "We originally had our sights set on you but you developed a certain resistance to darkness. So we did what the keyblade did. And moved down the list. Roxas. Now there was a worthy candidate. But, unfortunately he became too aware of himself and returned to Sora.

Riku was the inheritor of the keyblade, which passed onto Sora/Roxas after he fell to darkness. Roxas was easy to get into the organisation as he had no memories. Now, we know Xemnas was sneaking around Hollow Bastion at the time of KH1. So he probably knew what his Heartless half was up to with Riku. Xemnas probably saw Sora unintentionally create Roxas when he stabbed himself. We know Xehanort had numerous back up plans. Why not find Sora's Nobody and induct him into your Organisation in case the primary plan - involving Riku - fails?

I figure Riku was the original choice because of his connection to Xehanort through Terra and it is explicitly stated that he was. Both Ansem and Xemnas are made from Terra and Xehanort. Assuming both have memories of their time as both the original Xehanort and Terra and then as Apprentice Xehanort, it stands to reason both would know, from Terra's memories, that Riku had inherited the keyblade. Someone must have opened that dark portal for Riku to travel through to Hollow Bastion when he fell into darkness in Destiny Islands. He didn't do that himself. Aren't people who survive losing their words sent to Traverse Town? Riku didn't go there... He was deliberately taken to Hollow Bastion. Though that isn't said, that is how I view that scene. The use of the word 'originally' at the end of DDD (in the quote up there), if taken at its definition meaning, it means comes first or in the beginning. It all points to Riku being the original vessel and Roxas and then Sora being the back-ups.

That's my two cents on that though, but people have their own interpretations as to the order of the choice for the 13th vessel.

 

[Audo]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Yeah I'm thinking that Roxas was also being considered as part of the back-up vessels (in addition to the original Org).

I don't think Riku was ever intended to become a member of the original Organization though. Xehanort's actions in KH1 were all about getting Riku's body for himself, not to cast it off to become a Nobody. And yeah, it's made clear that Xehanort opened the corridor to HB.

 

[hlc1988]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Yeah I'm thinking that Roxas was also being considered as part of the back-up vessels (in addition to the original Org).

I don't think Riku was ever intended to become a member of the original Organization though. Xehanort's actions in KH1 were all about getting Riku's body for himself, not to cast it off to become a Nobody. And yeah, it's made clear that Xehanort opened the corridor to HB.

Yeah, I agree with that assessment.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

I wonder how Xemnas would have dealt with Ven's heart. Maybe, the reason why he didn't take in Roxas was hat Terra was interfering somehow.

 

[Hovhannes1998]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

First off I would like to tell to the original poster... wow that's paying attention. How many times did you have to look at that? That being said, I liked the part with the balance of the letters, but why would all the other ones not have the X in the middle. Could it be that Nomura wanted to again show how pure and balanced Sora is? Just a thought.

 

[Audo]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Vexen + Larxene also have the x in the middle. I don't think it really means they're particularly pure and balanced though?

 

[hemmoheikkinen]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Nice attention to detail. I hadn't noticed the color change. I like how you put it that the X "poisoned" the other letters and the whole name changed into that color.

Thanks! It is an interesting part of the scene, how the yellow spreads to all the other letters.
But also it can be seen as an acceptance of a new identity in my opinion(since the color turns only after Roxas says the name out loud, which I found pretty cool). But I also do find it fascinating, that the X yellow colored. It can be also seen that hey just picked a different color so you could see the X better, but that would be an boring answer, would`n it? There are some cool little nice touches in this scene.

First off I would like to tell to the original poster... wow that's paying attention. How many times did you have to look at that? That being said, I liked the part with the balance of the letters, but why would all the other ones not have the X in the middle. Could it be that Nomura wanted to again show how pure and balanced Sora is? Just a thought.

Actually only a few times, not that many. But I have seen this scene before quite a many times, so it was pretty well preserved in my memory. Yeah, the balance stuff is what I came up with last. I new it is not present in all the Org XIII members names, but I wanted to present the balance idea with Roxas, since in his name it can be so well seen. I am pretty sure Nomura did not had this idea in his head when he made that scene, but after I played further games and heard about the balance stuff MX`s speaks of, I wanted to add that perspective as well. But it kinda works only on Roxas name, so that is purely speculation in my part.
Sora being balanced is an interesting idea.

 

[DarkGrey Heroine]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Sora's name being in balance in this scene could be another reference to the fact that he has both Light and Darkness within himself, and somehow manages to deal with both force (or now at least starts to consider the Darkness as a part of him and wants to check that too, after the given events of DDD). He may be the Hero of Light, but he creates connections between people belonging to Light, Darkness and In-Between, rescues those who lost their way or helps the ones with unfortunate destinies. Though I doubt the idea of Sora being the 'balance' between realms was thought-of in this scene, as it focuses mainly on Roxas' gaining of a new identity, Sora still is the one who connects them all, so I think the idea is valid.

 

[Anagram]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Wow what an in depth view of the scene? o_o
A bit random but am I the only one that notices the X and orther letters in Roxas name are the same yellow as Xehanorts eyes? Meh probably just coincidence.

 

[hemmoheikkinen]

Re: Analyzing "The new You" scene in KH2FM with other games in mind. (Also spoilers from DDD and BB

Wow what an in depth view of the scene? o_o
A bit random but am I the only one that notices the X and orther letters in Roxas name are the same yellow as Xehanorts eyes? Meh probably just coincidence.

Nope, you are not the only one. I shall quote myself from the op:

As you can see here, the other letters of the name are still blue, but the freaking X, a.ka The Recusant`s Sigil, is yellow. This yellow color spreads to all of the other letters when Roxas says his name. I like to think that the yellow color invading to the other letters is representation of the “poisoning” nature of the Recusant. Now you have been marked as vessel, soon you will belong to me. Also what is the color of Xehanort`s yes? Yeah, it is yellow(or gold if you wanna be precise). And we all now what happens to the persons eye color, when Xehanort`s heart piece starts to corrupt the user. I just think it is very interesting, that the X`s color is the same as Xehanort`s eyes.