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Anyone else think Sora pales in comparison to TAV?



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I think gameplay does matter.

No. It doesn't. Because, as I said, you can't quantify it, and there's a danger in blending gameplay and canon.
How do you estimate that one attack by TAV is stronger/weaker than an attack by Sora? You don't. You just say it "looks" more powerful, but that doesn't prove anything, it's almost entirely opinion based.

"TAV have shotlocks!!"
"Yeah but Sora can slice buildings in half!!"

It's completely idiotic trying to compare them.

Plus you can go on the fact that TAV were professionally trained and, again, Sora picked his keyblade up and started swinging.

I know plenty of people who taught themselves how to play the guitar and are far more skilled than "professionally trained" guitarists. So it's a null point.
 

rac7d

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I still think we can use the moves TAV used in BBS, and compare contrast to the ones Sora uses. Plus you can go on the fact that TAV were professionally trained and, again, Sora picked his keyblade up and started swinging.

I think gameplay does matter.

yeah sora can pretty much use all there mooves except shootlock which he taps into to through ragnorok
[video=youtube;4yolZeXJfrw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yolZeXJfrw[/video]
 

ross61

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I thought it was said long ago by Nomura that TAV were stronger than Sora.
 

Silverslide

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yeah sora can pretty much use all there mooves except shootlock which he taps into to through ragnorok
[video=youtube;4yolZeXJfrw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yolZeXJfrw[/video]

Yeah, too bad he forgot ALLL of those.
 

Silverslide

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No. It doesn't. Because, as I said, you can't quantify it, and there's a danger in blending gameplay and canon.
How do you estimate that one attack by TAV is stronger/weaker than an attack by Sora? You don't. You just say it "looks" more powerful, but that doesn't prove anything, it's almost entirely opinion based.

"TAV have shotlocks!!"
"Yeah but Sora can slice buildings in half!!"

It's completely idiotic trying to compare them.
It's idiotic saying that since I didn't say any of those.

I was simply saying that TAV have more mastery over the keyblade than Sora does, which makes sense considering they were trained professionally. Jiminy's journal mentions that LS mastery of the keyblade far exceeds Sora's, and it is a fair assumption that LS mimics Terra's strength before he got invaded by MX in BBS.
Grass said:
I know plenty of people who taught themselves how to play the guitar and are far more skilled than "professionally trained" guitarists. So it's a null point.

K, tell me, how many of those kids were 14 years old and used wooden sticks fighting other unskilled kids? When people are self taught, they make sure they have the right tools and procedures and techniques. Sora just fought other kids with sticks for recreation, not with discipline like self taught people.
 

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Yeah, but calling him on par with TAV? Aqua defeated Terranort, and Sora got overwhelmed by Xemnas, who is half of Terranort. What does that tell you?

I don't think it's exactly accurate to think that their power was necessarily halved.

But yeah, I don't think that Sora is on par with TAV. How could he possibly be?
Even if he is naturally more talented than all three of them, which is debatable, they got years of tutelage where he gets riddles about darkness and light and friendship. Plus he's dumb as a brick.
 

Silverslide

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I don't think it's exactly accurate to think that their power was necessarily halved.

Maybe not exactly half, but I would consider nobodies being weaker than their original persons, in Xemnas' case anyway.
 
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It's idiotic saying that since I didn't say any of those.

My point was that any discussion of power derived from gameplay degrades into such baseless points.

I was simply saying that TAV have more mastery over the keyblade than Sora does, which makes sense considering they were trained professionally.

Jiminy's journal mentions that LS mastery of the keyblade far exceeds Sora's, and it is a fair assumption that LS mimics Terra's strength before he got invaded by MX in BBS.

You're meshing strength and skill with the keyblade into overall power, which is wrong.
There's not much doubt that Terra, Aqua, and even Ven are more skilled with the keyblade than Sora, but in terms of power, we really can't say. Just because they have fancier techniques does not make them more powerful.

For instance, I would hardly consider the ability to use a keyblade rider a show of power, since Ven rather unwittingly did it on his first try with nothing more than a flick of his keyblade.

K, tell me, how many of those kids were 14 years old and used wooden sticks fighting other unskilled kids? When people are self taught, they make sure they have the right tools and procedures and techniques. Sora just fought other kids with sticks for recreation, not with discipline like self taught people.

This is yet another completely invalid point.
Sora has killed adults. He's not quite translatable into an irl 14 year old.

Moreover, you're completely disregarding the potential for innate ability. Sora may or may not be better on the sheer grounds that his heart is naturally stronger.
And lastly, training does hone skills, but not to any degree that actual combat does, so you're relying far too heavily on the fact that they were "trained professionally," when Sora is the one with far more on-the-field experience.

Note here that I'm not even trying to say that I think Sora is stronger. I really have no clue. I'm just giving counterpoints because it's so easy to, since, as I pointed out, there's no standard by which we can measure their powers, and having a definitive answer is next to impossible at this point.
 

Silverslide

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You're meshing strength and skill with the keyblade into overall power, which is wrong.
Not really, those two kind of go hand in hand in this situation. The keyblade is what ALL 4 of these people use to fight, so one person being more skilled with it than another could make them stronger. Could an inexperienced fencer defeat someone who has been doing it longer than he/she has?

Grass said:
There's not much doubt that Terra, Aqua, and even Ven are more skilled with the keyblade than Sora, but in terms of power, we really can't say. Just because they have fancier techniques does not make them more powerful.

For instance, I would hardly consider the ability to use a keyblade rider a show of power, since Ven rather unwittingly did it on his first try with nothing more than a flick of his keyblade.



This is yet another completely invalid point.
Sora has killed adults. He's not quite translatable into an irl 14 year old.

The fanciness shows that they know what they are doing, but that isn't really what I am going on since gameplay apparently doesnt matter. I am going by what Jiminy says in his journal about LS.

On his first try? How do we know that? He looked like he knew exactly what he was doing when he tapped his shoulder and was engulfed in light. Sora technically hasn't killed any adults(or anyone for that matter) He has defeated a Heartless, and 13 incomplete beings that are probably naturally weaker than their somebody counterparts.

And Sora kind of is, Nomura himself has even said Sora is a normal boy.

Grass said:
Moreover, you're completely disregarding the potential for innate ability. Sora may or may not be better on the sheer grounds that his heart is naturally stronger.
And lastly, training does hone skills, but not to any degree that actual combat does, so you're relying far too heavily on the fact that they were "trained professionally," when Sora is the one with far more on-the-field experience.

Assuming how strong his heart is matters, why would that change anything with how much stronger or not stronger he is than TAV? We have no idea if the strength of a heart directly effects someones overall power, besides, don't ALL wielders need a strong heart to wield a keyblade? The only thing I hear people say about Sora's heart is its ability to connect it to anyone.

Well, if the amount of training is greater than the amount of 'field experience' I would say it does. HOW long has Sora been on his journey anyway? I mean, COM is basically wiped from his memory so he doesn't remember any of the fighting he did there, and he went to sleep for a year. I don't think he actually has been on his journey for that long. Anyway, we don't know exactly how long TAV have been professionally training, but we know it goes back 1 year before the events of BBS judging from a flashback we see in BBS. So it is safe to assume they have been training for a while.

Thanks to ME, and MX, TAV have been taught the proper way to use the keyblade to its full potential, while 2 of them were keyblade masters(counting Terra since he basically kind of was one) while Sora on the otherhand kind of got thrown into this whole thing, without the training that TAV has, and I DO believe that makes a difference.

Grass said:
Note here that I'm not even trying to say that I think Sora is stronger. I really have no clue. I'm just giving counterpoints because it's so easy to, since, as I pointed out, there's no standard by which we can measure their powers, and having a definitive answer is next to impossible at this point.

That's fine, I am only going about this logically, Sora may very well be stronger than TAV according to Nomura, but right now it just doesn't add up.
 

Lavender13

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terra is as stong as one, therefore he can do the right of passage to riku. but he isn't considered one
 

rac7d

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the only thing that can tell us hwo stronger is nomura himself we the peopl can judge becasue of our biasedness
we might as well go back to who is better saor or roxas it jsut never ends
 

Silverslide

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the only thing that can tell us hwo stronger is nomura himself we the peopl can judge becasue of our biasedness
we might as well go back to who is better saor or roxas it jsut never ends

probably roxas

stop being so dependant on nomura lol put things together on your own
 

rac7d

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probably roxas

stop being so dependant on nomura lol put things together on your own

what do you mean he makes the game so only he could ever truly know the answer
by the way 100% roxas
 

Silverslide

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what do you mean he makes the game so only he could ever truly know the answer

Not if the pieces are right in front of you, all you need to do is put them together. God where is HeartSeams.
 

rac7d

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Not if the pieces are right in front of you, all you need to do is put them together. God where is HeartSeams.

yeah but whatever conclusion we come up with can never be 100% till he says so
plus people wont stop arguing untill he says whats what
 
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