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Are Lea and Isa a canon couple



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Kokoko253

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Disney just introduced their first out bisexual main character with The Owl House, currently one of their most popular shows on Disney Channel. I think Disney isn’t as afraid to push the needle as long as it isn’t their big blockbuster films where they make their billions.

A video game like KH exploring LGBTQ+ themes isn’t out of the realm of possibility if that was what the staff and Nomura wanted. Masaru Oka is a big ol’ soriku fanboy, and the novelist for the series and scenario writer for Days, Tomoco Kanemaki, literally writes Boys Love novels for a living and she was hand-picked by Nomura as far as I’m aware.

Also Japan doesn’t have the same sort of reservations about LGBTQ+ representation being present in media like other places in the world.
I heard about Owl House, but still, a Disney channel show is not the same category as KH. All the representation we will see in big budget movies (and I think KH is closer to this category) are a gay background couple at best, animated in a way for Russia and the Middle East to easily edit out. Disney is a multinational giant, it doesn't have ideals, it has buisness plans.

Looked up the japanese situation, looks like I was too quick to judge. Still, I don't believe Disney would allow it. Nomura could maybe possibly somehow push it through, but it doesn't seem like he wants to take KH to a much more relationship-focused direction. Not even with Kairi and Sora.
 

Zul

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I tend to get frustrated with the whole "SoraxKairi isn't canon" thing as well specifically because it feels to me like people are just willfully sticking their heads into the sand--

That's because that's exactly what they are doing, and while they are a nuisance, they aren't really worth wasting any time or emotional energy on. You can discuss things with those who view evidence→reach conclusion, not with people who conclude first→forcibly deny/reinterpret evidence until it fits that conclusion.

Most fandoms have their respective flat-earthers/covid-deniers, the KH one just happens to have really loud ones on twitter and a few here.

As for KH itself....

-SoKai hugs and handholding.
-Yozora+Not-Stella stuff.

Is all you can realistically expect to see, anything else is some corporate/marketing decision or writer's whim down the line.
 

Idkanymore92

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Great everyone guess I got to abandon the game cause LeaIsa is gonna definitely be a thing everyone thinks or should be I don’t care what anyone says LeaIsa don’t do anything but be friends that make them any gayer than any other friendships but thanks for ruining my favorite game I’m glad obsessive unhealthy Isa gets lea and people think it’s a healthy relationship the fact people ignore many other gay lines but are sure in LeaIsa it’s romantic. And please sokai or not the way Riku talks about Sora and there scenes even though platonic put to shame the pathetic LeaIsa scenes and they parallel soriku so yea if soriku isn’t its a joke to make leaisa whatever congratulations LeaIsa shippers

Also I don’t give a you know what about Kairi or Sora or Namiku and their kiddie relationships
 
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Sign

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Great everyone guess I got to abandon the game cause LeaIsa is gonna definitely be a thing everyone thinks or should be I don’t care what anyone says LeaIsa don’t do anything but be friends that make them any gayer than any other friendships but thanks for ruining my favorite game I’m glad obsessive unhealthy Isa gets lea and people think it’s a healthy relationship the fact people ignore many other gay lines but are sure in LeaIsa it’s romantic. And please sokai or not the way Riku talks about Sora and there scenes even though platonic put to shame the pathetic LeaIsa scenes and they parallel soriku so yea if soriku isn’t its a joke to make leaisa whatever congratulations LeaIsa shippers

Also I don’t give a you know what about Kairi or Sora or Namiku and their shallow kiddie relationships
sorry your fishing expedition didn't get you the results you wanted
 

Idkanymore92

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What are talking about I’m was expressing my opinion am i not allowed to be mad or dislike something I don’t like feeling attacked or afraid to share my passion whether I like something or not
 

Oracle Spockanort

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What are talking about I’m was expressing my opinion am i not allowed to be mad or dislike something I don’t like feeling attacked or afraid to share my passion whether I like something or not

Nobody is attacking you. I think this is what happened in the last topic as well. Nobody is saying it should or shouldn’t happen, or that you should like or dislike anything. Everybody just has opinions on the pairing.

At the end of the day, though, nothing is canon. No pairing has been confirmed, in game or through interview. Anything else is just conjecture based on context clues or just us being hopeful and discussing it.
 

Elysium

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Isa's going to be paired up with Mystery Girl X just like Sora's been thrown together with Kairi, so, no, it's not going to be canon. Usually the pairing most devoid of substance or chemistry is what has the greatest chance of becoming canon, if it's heterosexual.
 

Absent

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Honestly anything being close to canon is a curse. Look at how Nomura treats Sorikai. Ships are better because they don’t get treated like crap like they do in canon.
Though I want my Soriku to continue in the novels, that shit is too much on the nose for me.
 

Idkanymore92

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Isa's going to be paired up with Mystery Girl X just like Sora's been thrown together with Kairi, so, no, it's not going to be canon. Usually the pairing most devoid of substance or chemistry is what has the greatest chance of becoming canon, if it's heterosexual.

I rather Lea and her tbh she was mentioned in his character file that he was worried about her but according to another poster on this thread they said he don’t really care about her and she wasn’t worth saving but his character file suggests otherwise.I don’t think they would put skuld who we all know is probably subject x with Isa. I know we know nothing about her or how they are together but maybe it would be like able yet if you say you like the idea of her with either of them you get attacked since theres no way they could be not gay.

I just have no hope right now in this fandom I seriously don’t. Even if they don’t like her romantically I admit I like thought of lea/skuld there’s no reason for LeaIsa to be a thing.

I seriously do worry they will make LeaIsa a thing since they are not the main characters thats why I feel like this about them you all could like it but I have a right not to.
 
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AmaryllisMoth

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I rather Lea and her tbh she was mentioned in his character file that he was worried about her but according to another poster on this thread they said he don’t really care about her and she wasn’t worth saving but his character file suggests otherwise.

I assume you are referring to me? Perhaps my word choice was poor earlier when I said that I thought Axel was "wishy-washy" about saving her but I kind of think it's true in a way. He certainly is adamant that he wants to save her, still cares about her and always did (and maybe personally feels like he never gave up on her) but I think it's entirely true as well that he had a period of emotional conflict with the situation and didn't know how to act.

He definitely did get caught up in other things and put her on the back burner a little whether he intended to or not. Saix said as much, that this was the reason why he grew distrustful over Axel's intentions because it felt like he had "moved on" and didn't care any more. Clearly, Axel did still care in his heart, but wasn't really taking any proactive steps himself (that we could see). Essentially, he was just always keeping up hope but not really acting on it. That, to me, is a bit wishy-washy. He was basically relying on Saix to do all the heavy lifting.

Maybe I'm wrong but the way I read it was he had no idea where she was or what to do so he ended up sort of just...waiting and hoping for a lead. Had he gotten one, I don't doubt he would have acted on it. Instead, it seems he figured Isa/Saix was better at sleuthing things out and Axel was trying to support him in the hopes that his friend would get a lead.

However, stuff between him and Saix fell apart due to jealousy so he effectively lost the person who he was really counting on to help him search for her on that front. While internally he might feel like he never gave up hope, unless they add in stuff that he was doing off camera, I think Saix was completely justified in feeling like Axel wasn't really as dedicated to finding her as he could have been.

By "defying" Saix in favor of Roxas, in Saix's mind that was essentially spurning the one person who was helping him find Mystery girl X--which was in turn choosing Roxas over her. Axel defends this saying no, he wasn't giving up on her--but on paper and in theory it kind of was. Emotionally, no, he wasn't giving up, but in practice he wasn't doing much towards getting her back.

Axel is the sort of character who just sort of floors it in the direction that he thinks he needs to go in at the time. Unfortunately, that means he doesn't generally make the best decisions for his overall goals but things thankfully work out for him anyway. I don't think he personally sees himself as abandoning her, even though he was going full throttle on trying to help Roxas and not really seeing how that was affecting the search for X. Maybe he just figured he would help Roxas first then go full tilt on getting her back. Either way, he was setting her aside for a bit.

you all could like it but I have a right not to.

Certainly, no one is telling you how to feel. Personally while it might feel like I am arguing for LeaxIsa I personally actually hate Isa and wish he died with Saix. I dislike him and would really like him to leave the story, so all things considered I would rather him not be in a romantic pairing with Lea because then he will NEVER leave. I've only been trying to say that there isn't really any definitive proof any way whatsoever with their pairing be it legit or not because we haven't seen them together for long enough to really say. It certainly could happen, is all I'm saying. It could just as easily be Mystery X and either one of them. We will just have to see.
 
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I assume you are referring to me? Perhaps my word choice was poor earlier when I said that I thought Axel was "wishy-washy" about saving her but I kind of think it's true in a way. He certainly is adamant that he wants to save her, still cares about her and always did (and maybe personally feels like he never gave up on her) but I think it's entirely true as well that he had a period of emotional conflict with the situation and didn't know how to act.

He definitely did get caught up in other things and put her on the back burner a little whether he intended to or not. Saix said as much, that this was the reason why he grew distrustful over Axel's intentions because it felt like he had "moved on" and didn't care any more. Clearly, Axel did still care in his heart, but wasn't really taking any proactive steps himself (that we could see). Essentially, he was just always keeping up hope but not really acting on it. That, to me, is a bit wishy-washy. He was basically relying on Saix to do all the heavy lifting.

Maybe I'm wrong but the way I read it was he had no idea where she was or what to do so he ended up sort of just...waiting and hoping for a lead. Had he gotten one, I don't doubt he would have acted on it. Instead, it seems he figured Isa/Saix was better at sleuthing things out and Axel was trying to support him in the hopes that his friend would get a lead.

However, stuff between him and Saix fell apart due to jealousy so he effectively lost the person who he was really counting on to help him search for her on that front. While internally he might feel like he never gave up hope, unless they add in stuff that he was doing off camera, I think Saix was completely justified in feeling like Axel wasn't really as dedicated to finding her as he could have been.

By "defying" Saix in favor of Roxas, in Saix's mind that was essentially spurning the one person who was helping him find Mystery girl X--which was in turn choosing Roxas over her. Axel defends this saying no, he wasn't giving up on her--but on paper and in theory it kind of was. Emotionally, no, he wasn't giving up, but in practice he wasn't doing much towards getting her back.

Axel is the sort of character who just sort of floors it in the direction that he thinks he needs to go in at the time. Unfortunately, that means he doesn't generally make the best decisions for his overall goals but things thankfully work out for him anyway. I don't think he personally sees himself as abandoning her, even though he was going full throttle on trying to help Roxas and not really seeing how that was affecting the search for X. Maybe he just figured he would help Roxas first then go full tilt on getting her back. Either way, he was setting her aside for a bit.
I agree with everything you say but I think it's a little more complicated in that Saïx essentially gave up on finding Subject X too, which makes Axel's rift with him more understandable.

From their clocktower scene, the idea was that Axel would help Saïx rise up the ranks of the Organization to get information on Subject X. But Saïx admits that as he went on with the plan and found nothing about their friend, he 'awakened to a new purpose': becoming stronger for the sake of it. And Saïx clearly became a cold, cruel person while a Nobody. What started as two boys looking for their friend turned into a murderous power-play by Saïx, though ostensibly stil with the ultimate goal of finding her.

So even though I can understand Saïx feeling betrayed by Axel when he made new friends and eased up on the search for Subject X, I can also understand why Axel would feel Saïx actually did the same thing. There's a line in a Days Secret Report from Axel about Saïx which still stands imo: "I'm not the one who changed. You did."

Sorry, that's not really relevant to the shipping discussion, I just think it's interesting.
 

redcrown

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I'm of the opinion that the underlying homo vibe so many people get from KH is not by accident. Just like in so much shonen, it's supposed to be a tease. To confirm anything would spoil the exoticism, and break the rules, because this flavor of tension is dependent on taboo.

So many unfortunate implications in that, but explains so well why Japanese media tends to be the way it is, I understand it now. I was hoping KH would be a bit better and more emotionally honest than that, but I guess not; unless the KH4 Shibuya adventures go for a completely different tone and same sex romance will be seen as more normal/not unorthodox in fiction when it comes out in 2035.
 
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AmaryllisMoth

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I agree with everything you say but I think it's a little more complicated in that Saïx essentially gave up on finding Subject X too, which makes Axel's rift with him more understandable.

From their clocktower scene, the idea was that Axel would help Saïx rise up the ranks of the Organization to get information on Subject X. But Saïx admits that as he went on with the plan and found nothing about their friend, he 'awakened to a new purpose': becoming stronger for the sake of it. And Saïx clearly became a cold, cruel person while a Nobody. What started as two boys looking for their friend turned into a murderous power-play by Saïx, though ostensibly stil with the ultimate goal of finding her.

So even though I can understand Saïx feeling betrayed by Axel when he made new friends and eased up on the search for Subject X, I can also understand why Axel would feel Saïx actually did the same thing. There's a line in a Days Secret Report from Axel about Saïx which still stands imo: "I'm not the one who changed. You did."

Sorry, that's not really relevant to the shipping discussion, I just think it's interesting.

Oh, you are absolutely right. The "blame" if there is any? for not "properly" searching for X doesn't entirely lay on Axel's shoulders. Hopefully it didn't sound like I was trying to say it is all his fault, haha. Was just trying to clarify for someone why I thought Axel's relationship with girl X was a bit hard to gauge at this point in time since he says he cares but hasn't really put a lot of weight behind those words yet. Ultimately you are right that Saix is far more guilty of not putting in proper effort at the end of the day. He flat out started trying to tell himself she wasn't even real, I assume, to assuange his guilt over giving up. The two could have fixed quite a lot and actually made real progress on finding her had they just, I dunno, talked things out a little. Then again, if people in this series communicated more/better than half the plot points wouldn't even happen, so...

*flashbacks to BBS*
 

Face My Fears

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You see LeaIsa as gay but not soriku who they parallel sorry if one ain’t canon the other isn’t either I really don’t get why people think LeaIsa are this gay the things Riku says about Sora is more gay than anything LeaIsa said and xehaqus is the most gay if we have to name one uh why is it my least favorite gay ship that people are convinced of it really bothers me



what makes LeaIsa gay I really don’t get it are you all playing a different game

I despise LeaIsa then Namiku sokai after ugh I’ll tolerate sokai most out them cause you know it’s something hinted from start but Namiku if it’s a thing is more shallow than sokai with no basis first Roxas and namine were the thing now Riku who never mentions her and LeaIsa I hate it lea deserve much more than that. I know people ship it but it bothers me everyone seems to think it’s possible yet with other gay ships it’s denied and I just don’t understand. I mean am I only person who doesn’t see it and ship I mean really
How does Soriku connect to LeaIsa? I never said I don't see Soriku as possible, I just said that I really like SoKai. I admit there is WAY more evidence for Soriku (and if they actually went that route, it would be easily believable).

LeaIsa is more probable than Soriku solely because it's undeniable that Sora/Kairi are being positioned (and always have been) as a couple or at least in love with each other. Lea/Isa have always had scenes that had a lot of subtext in them, and even the ultimate revelation at the end of KH3 - getting Isa to admit that he was jealous of Lea making new friends and forgetting him - feels like something that a couple or people who have a crush on each other would deal with.

Namine/Riku is my dream ship and I wish KH would follow through with this. His dark and brooding, with her sadness and loneliness will make my heart explode.
 

Idkanymore92

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How does Soriku connect to LeaIsa? I never said I don't see Soriku as possible, I just said that I really like SoKai. I admit there is WAY more evidence for Soriku (and if they actually went that route, it would be easily believable).

LeaIsa is more probable than Soriku solely because it's undeniable that Sora/Kairi are being positioned (and always have been) as a couple or at least in love with each other. Lea/Isa have always had scenes that had a lot of subtext in them, and even the ultimate revelation at the end of KH3 - getting Isa to admit that he was jealous of Lea making new friends and forgetting him - feels like something that a couple or people who have a crush on each other would deal with.

Namine/Riku is my dream ship and I wish KH would follow through with this. His dark and brooding, with her sadness and loneliness will make my heart explode.

In kh2 ending Riku told Sora he was jealous of him and we know he was jealous of Sora making new making friends in kh1 and that don’t make them gay. My point is LeaIsa have similar scenes like soriku but everyone says one is gay and other isn’t that’s why I compare. It don’t matter though ship what you want.

Everyone has a ship that would really upset them if it actually happened that’s how I feel about LeaIsa but whatever happens in game happens

There are other games besides this that don’t cause stress I’ll stick to those.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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There are other games besides this that don’t cause stress I’ll stick to those.

I'm not sure why this would cause you stress while playing the game??? I think you are putting too much energy into pairings and ships. That should have no effect on your enjoyment of the series when couples, especially Lea and Isa, are not the focus at all.
 

Idkanymore92

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I'm not sure why this would cause you stress while playing the game??? I think you are putting too much energy into pairings and ships. That should have no effect on your enjoyment of the series when couples, especially Lea and Isa, are not the focus at all.

It’s not enjoyable anymore to me and not to mention the way I get treated by others I just see nothing good about it anymore. You know I care mostly about Lea I think he deserves way better than Isa. I wouldn’t be surprised they make it canon since they’re safe not the faces of the game and I don’t want to have to see it. It causes me lots of stress and I already have enough without this stuff.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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It’s not enjoyable anymore to me and not to mention the way I get treated by others I just see nothing good about it anymore. You know I care mostly about Lea I think he deserves way better than Isa. I wouldn’t be surprised they make it canon since they’re safe not the faces of the game and I don’t want to have to see it. It causes me lots of stress and I already have enough without this stuff.

But there is no guarantee at all that they will make it canon at all.

And your enjoyment of Kingdom Hearts shouldn't have anything to do with people not agreeing with you on a pairing. People aren't even saying you shouldn't dislike the pair. It's fine to not like it.

I'm not going to go out of my way to convince you to not drop the series, but I am going to say that your reasons for doing so have nothing to do with anything related to what is actually present in the games.

You have a fear of something that has never been discussed by the developers, and as it has been said many times in this topic, this series has no canon pairings. Everything else is just conjecture based on context clues or wishful thinking.
 
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