Atheist?

[kingdomkey96]

Just going to say: of course we shouldn't. If we did things like our ancestors purely for the reason that our ancestors did things that way, we'd never have any change or advancement in society or science.

That's what I meant.

Shinra seemed to suggest that we can only believe in God based on what our ancestors say. Hence the reason I said : 'Oh? So we should or shouldn't believe in a concept based solely on our ancestors?' I wasn't asking which he meant, it was a rhetorical question.

I was trying to send across the message that all our thoughts need not be linked to the past. Can't we view God in a new way? Must we be bounded by preconceived notions?

That's what I meant.

 

[Siren]

>Christianity and Catholicism

Yeah, you just lost.

 

[kingdomkey96]

>Christianity and Catholicism

Yeah, you just lost.

What?

Are you talking to me?

If so, how did I 'lose'?

 

[Siren]

I was talking about Shinra, given the fact that he (like many others) felt the need to separate Catholicism from Christianity, as though someone can be straight-up 'Christian' as opposed to Congregationalist, Catholic, Baptist, etc.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

Just going to say: of course we shouldn't. If we did things like our ancestors purely for the reason that our ancestors did things that way, we'd never have any change or advancement in society or science.Because those that believe typically are bombarded with the 'message of God' from a very early age when they've no way to know any different or resist such indoctrination.

A friend approached me with a question similar to those for his research paper my response, while pretty messy, is as follows:

Basically, we are all born as atheists. Then whatever our parents decide to raise us as we become. We are essentially told that it is true for our entire lives, much like Santa. Except we aren't told when we become 13 that it really isn't. Most Americans are some sort of Christian/Catholic because we are in America and that is what we are raised as. You go look at India and you see a lot of Buddhists. Middle East a lot of Islam. It is very much a thing we are conditioned into believing. Going to church as children, receiving communion, ect.
I know this may be hard to do but imagine no one ever telling you that God is real. Imagine just being handed a Bible or a Qur'an and reading it. Chances are you would dismiss it as a story. You would have no [rational] reason to think of it as fact. However, when you are raised you are told it is real and that is what you find true.
Of course there are exceptions to this such as those who claim "they found God" or are born again.

I apologize for the garbage formatting of this as I'm pretty exhausted, I'm not even sure if I answered your question. If you need me to elaborate on or explain anything I'd be happy to.

 

[Solar]

I slightly agree with Victor. Virtually everyone I have meet or seen on some level who has converted to another religion or left religion tend to be more rational and educated about their beliefs or lack thereof.

While you can call it brainwashing all you want, I will educate my children in religion much more properly than my parents. It is not enough to simple told this is how it is, because my parents never ever answered the 'why' question which resulted in me becoming, for a lack of other words, an agnostic/inclusivist or religious relativist (don't ask about the latter two terms, long story) for some time . Abstract thinking on theology has become virtually non-existent. Either you cling to dogmatic beliefs or you completely and utterly reject them. Condescend all you want but I am of the opinion theists need to evolve how they think about their faiths instead of completely scrapping them.

 

[Orion]

Teaching of religious theory is - personally - an absolute must in this day and age, given how quickly many people seem to dismiss and criticise religion without proper foreknowledge of its propositions, teachings, and so on. Anything to do with religion aside from the teaching of its theory (or the celebration of virtually de-religionised days such as Easter and Christmas) I think is an absolute no-no for a child until they're old enough and knowledgeable enough to make their own informed decision on what their belief or lack thereof will be.

As an extension, teaching the theory of just one religion is not good enough, no matter how much you stress it is purely for education purposes. It still biases the child to one religion over all others. If you can't teach more than two (very differentiated) religions, you shouldn't teach them any.

 

[kingdomkey96]

Of course, I agree almost entirely with Victor. My neighbor's are Christian and their son is a Christian. My parents are Hindu and I am Hindu. Coincidence? Obviously not.

However, if I were to view this personally, I would not say that I am 'brainwashed.' I could well and truly tell my mother that I was converting to Atheism right now, and after a minute of explanation she would accept that. Therefore the concept of God isn't being forced down my throat. Is it?

However, I understand that this doesn't hold true with everyone. I realise, that by being born into Hinduism, I naturally accept it. At the same time,however, I would like to believe that I've been brought up in such a way that, I can question my religion freely. And indeed I have.

Like I said in the OP, I have questioned God several times and have reached the same conclusion.

/not sure what this adds to the thread but I felt that I should share my personal 'stance'

 

[Solar]

Teaching of religious theory is - personally - an absolute must in this day and age, given how quickly many people seem to dismiss and criticise religion without proper foreknowledge of its propositions, teachings, and so on. Anything to do with religion aside from the teaching of its theory (or the celebration of virtually de-religionised days such as Easter and Christmas) I think is an absolute no-no for a child until they're old enough and knowledgeable enough to make their own informed decision on what their belief or lack thereof will be.

As an extension, teaching the theory of just one religion is not good enough, no matter how much you stress it is purely for education purposes. It still biases the child to one religion over all others. If you can't teach more than two (very differentiated) religions, you shouldn't teach them any.

Pretty much. Even though it wasn't rational at all, the way I started everything pertaining to religious education was, for a moment accept everything. Then, slowly eliminate until I reached a conclusion I liked. Though I slightly disagree with the above. I think children should be brought up [insert Muslim, Atheist, Christian, w/e] agnostics if you want them truly nimble in their thinking. But it all depends on the kid and the parent. With some, 'brainwashing' might be good because you perceive your faith to be an objective truth, and you want to 'save your child's soul' (though this can only set them up for rejecting your teaching and limiting themselves) but this is an underestimation.

Moreover, you won't appreciate it either. An example: my parents never forced my sister to wear a hijab because if they did, would she truly appreciate it? Even if you told her the reason? I wouldn't think so. My mother never wore one growing up because again, she felt people pressuring her to do so and she felt (as virtually every hijabi I know does) that it should only ever be a personal decision, between you and God. So when they both do, I think it's better.

Anyone who's not a Muslim or even some Muslims can think our religion is archaic but I would always argue that there are many things in the Qu'ran that are so abstract and encourage deep-thinking. It's an imposing text in the sense God is always questioning you. One of the most iconic and my personal favorite verses says:

Do they not reflect upon themselves (even once)? God has not created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them save with truth (meaningfully and for definite, wise purposes, and on solid foundations of truth), and for an appointed term. But surely many among the people are in unbelief about the meeting with their Lord

This word for reflect in Arabic connotes deep, critical thinking. After all, this very text (book) directly discusses not believing in something just because one's ancestors did.

 

[Siren]

@Stooge: from what I've been reading about Taoism, that would be the most accurate label for your (hypothetical) belief.

 

[Aucune Raison]

Christians are far, far more dismissive of other belief systems than atheists. They take what beliefs they are given in their religious culture and reject those that are foreign, with rare exception. I really don't see how Christianity is more valid than Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Greek Mythology, Zoroastrianism, et cetera into infinity. This even applies to individual sects of Christianity. An evangelical would never even dream of becoming a catholic.

 

[Onasi]

Therefore, I want to ask you Atheists how many of you have exposure to other religions? How many of you Atheists have tried to find other religious philosophies? Do the majority of you Atheist disbelieve in God or simply the Christian God?

I don't dismiss the idea of a god(s) but I do think it is very unlikely. I am an atheist but It doesn't mean I dismiss the idea of god(s) existing. I have a collection of different Holy books and texts on various mythologies. I Think the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim ideas of God are highly unlikely of existing. This is due to the fact that their holy texts have many historical and scientific inaccuracies as well as having many contradictions. So far with the religions I have looked in to (which are: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Scientology, Mormonism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism) they all are made highly unlikely by similar inaccuracies.

When it comes to more ancient belief systems, IE what we would call mythologies, it gets more interesting. Certain Native tribes from the Americas and the cradle of civilization have more accurate beliefs on scientific phenomenon. Those are more likely than the religions i've previously mentioned but I still don't have enough information on them to determine where they fall.

My stance goes like this: Belief in the existence of Gods from major religions of today- no Belief in the existence of Gods of ancient religions-undecided Belief in God like Aliens that could have influenced the mythologies of ancient humans- Maybe

 

[Theart]

Condescend all you want but I am of the opinion theists need to evolve how they think about their faiths instead of completely scrapping them.

I completely agree with this. As a Christian, I am frequently frustrated when I attend Sunday School and occasionally even sermons. It all feels like the same old lecture being drawn out over and over again, rather than educating the church or possible visiting non-believers. While I have other priorities at the moment, I intend to eventually study theology more in-depthly and follow the path of Apologetics.