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Be brutally honest: what is the absolute worst world in the kh franchise?



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MATGSY

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KH’s take on Wonderland in general was just weird. I still don’t get why all the outside areas where made to look like they were inside boxes.
My theory is that KH1 may have at 1 point been a late PS1 game & Wonderland as the 1st world they worked on was designed around that system's specs. It's a dumb theory that makes no sense but it's all I got.
 

disney233

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Also, to the argument about worlds "being done to death", would there be such an uproar of disgust doing a world like Agrabah again and fighting Jafar over visiting a new world that awkwardly fits into the KH story and ends with a giant heartless boss fight?
Honestly....yes. Or at least to me. Because despite the fact that the KH story in 3 would usually end with a giant Heartless fight, there's surprisingly a lot that can be done with the Heartless bosses that can't AT ALL be matched if we were fighting bosses like...Hans or Gothel. I kinda feel I would be the ladder and kinda take new worlds over the returning ones. Maybe that's the gameplay standpoint talking. I mean, Just...look at what we could have.
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If it's any consolation, Caribbeans is the only returning world I actually enjoyed the most in the entire series, despite Davy Jones being an...eh Disney boss. I kinda want to think that it (hopefully) paved way to the idea of making worlds much more open.

That being said, I...can't say I really have high hopes on the idea of...reviving Jafar or other Disney bosses again solely to...fight him again, and have the fight exceed expectations. At this point, I'm...kinda just feeling that the original humanoids (Like the org) & the Heartless have more to them that could make unique & fun bosses than the Disney bosses. I've always felt that the Disney aspect of the game kinda just got shafted since KH1, and in regards to Disney bosses, it's what you said.
 
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Face My Fears

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Honestly....yes. Or at least to me. Because despite the fact that the KH story in 3 would usually end with a giant Heartless fight, there's surprisingly a lot that can be done with the Heartless bosses that can't AT ALL be matched if we were fighting bosses like...Hans or Gothel. I kinda feel I would be the ladder and kinda take new worlds over the returning ones. Maybe that's the gameplay standpoint talking. I mean, Just...look at what we could have.
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If it's any consolation, Caribbeans is the only returning world I actually enjoyed the most in the entire series, despite Davy Jones being an...eh Disney boss. I kinda want to think that it (hopefully) paved way to the idea of making worlds much more open.

That being said, I...can't say I really have high hopes on the idea of...reviving Jafar or other Disney bosses again solely to...fight him again, and have the fight exceed expectations. At this point, I'm...kinda just feeling that the original humanoids (Like the org) & the Heartless have more to them that could make unique & fun bosses than the Disney bosses. I've always felt that the Disney aspect of the game kinda just got shafted since KH1, and in regards to Disney bosses, it's what you said.
Well that's why I wanted it to be 2-phase boss fights like in KH1. You got "Sorcerer Jafar" and then "Genie Jafar" which was two different forms to fight him. You really don't think a giant Genie Jafar with the gameplay/graphics of KH3 couldn't be a fun fight?

Also, they could still do a giant heartless fight. It would have been cool to fight a darkness possessed Gothel (with Rapunzel only) in the tower, then the cutscene where Rapunzel cuts her hair happens and then Gothel falls out of the tower and turns into the giant heartless which Sora, Donald and Goofy fight alone.

The same could have gone for Hans. Even Randall could have been an actual mid-world boss fight. They could have made the conveyor belt segment be a "boss fight" where Randall had a health bar and we did things to decrease his health, kind of like the KH2 Oogie Boogie fight.

All I'm saying is that they didn't even TRY to include Disney villains as an actual boss fight. Clayton was standing up in the background just shooting while the Stealth Sneak was the boss of Deep Jungle. Even if Hans was standing on the sidelines watching the Arendelle boss fight, that would have been cool too. But it was very jarring how out of the way most worlds went to exclude the DISNEY villains at all costs. Even The Queen of Hearts was a mid-world "boss fight" with the playing cards attacking you. They even made the Magic Mirror into an Unversed... and they can't think of SOMETHING to do with Hans, Gothel, Randall etc? Even if they're not THE boss in the fight, they could have been involved with the fight somehow.

To me it does take away from the DISNEY experience in KH. After clearing a DISNEY world, you would look forward to actually confronting an iconic villain. That was part of the KH magic. I think Nomura knew this in KH2, hence almost every DISNEY villain that "died" came back from the dead for at least one boss fight. I think it's a fair request, especially because I'm sure KH wouldn't be as iconic as it is today if KH1 just had to you go to DISNEY worlds and the boss fights were heartless instead of the DISNEY villains.
 

Elysium

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About Wonderland, I personally always took it as them trying to re-create sort of a pop-up storybook feel and also to give you an extra "weird" feeling while navigating the world since it's the first Sora (and the player) will have ever visited besides his own. Back then, every world felt like it had its own system of rules in a way.

About Gothel, Hans, etc., I agree, they didn't even try. I mean, Oogie Boogie, Clayton, and Scar shouldn't have been interesting bosses either on paper. Scar is literally written as being weak story-wise; the Heartless is how we get that fun fight on top of Pride Rock. They used Heartless to make Oogie combined with his manor and give Clayton a monster to ride atop. They could've easily done the same with Gothel and Hans--particularly if Marluxia and Larxene involved themselves in the fights in some way or another. Larxene could've given Hans extreme speed, for example, and since you'd be fighting him in the middle of a snow storm, they could make it so he often catches you from behind or disappears from place to place. I always thought a Gothel battle could operate similar to the one with Young Xehanort at the end of 3D on a lesser scale, with her regularly restoring herself to full health with Rapunzel's hair while Marluxia causes poison effects on the party.
 
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Face My Fears

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About Wonderland, I personally always took it as them trying to re-create sort of a pop-up storybook feel and also to give you an extra "weird" feeling while navigating the world since it's the first Sora (and the player) will have ever visited besides his own. Back then, every world felt like it had its own system of rules in a way.

About Gothel, Hans, etc., I agree, they didn't even try. I mean, Oogie Boogie, Clayton, and Scar shouldn't have been interesting bosses either on paper. Scar is literally written as being weak story-wise; the Heartless is how we get that fun fight on top of Pride Rock. They used Heartless to make Oogie combined with his manor and give Clayton a monster to ride atop. They could've easily done the same with Gothel and Hans--particularly if Marluxia and Larxene involved themselves in the fights in some way or another. Larxene could've given Hans extreme speed, for example, and since you'd be fighting him in the middle of a snow storm, they could make it so he often catches you from behind or disappears from place to place. I always thought a Gothel battle could operate similar to the one with Young Xehanort at the end of 3D on a lesser scale, with her regularly restoring herself to full health with Rapunzel's hair while Marluxia causes poison effects on the party.
I always thought that pop-up book design is what they were going for in Wonderland. Even now (I never watched the movie), I feel like that's how the world is in the film.

I thought a Gothel fight could have used the darkness/shadows as a way for her to hide (like in "Mother Knows Best"). She would pop in and out of the fight for sneak attacks. Now that you mention Rapunzel's hair and healing herself, I'm thinking the fight could have been something like this:

Gothel has sneaky, fast attacks and hides in the darkness. On the floor is Rapunzel's hair in a maze of hair. In the darkness, Gothel uses the hair to heal herself - however, doing this exposes her as the hair glows when it's used. When she's exposed, you have to get to her in time to be able to attack (that's when she's vulnerable). It could even be a sort of timed game of Gothel trying to get to Eugene to kill him, so not so much to do with reducing her HP, but rather beating her in whatever the game is. Or like you said, include Marluxia somehow (like his boss fight with the whispered thing and then a timer pops up).

For Hans, I would have it be total chaos, so he can get in cheap shots. Larxene (and I guess Elsa's rage) could summon a massive snow storm. Larxene electrifies the snow, so you have to dodge that frequently, while heartless also appear and attack you. The snow temporarily blinds you (unless you use Fire or Aero at the right time) at which time Hans will run in for the attack. When the snow calms down, he runs away again. Larxene can even do a move that electrifies the entire field (since it's all snow) and you have to watch for when Hans climbs up on a rock to know when to jump. Also, I would have Larxene's electricity stun Sora, so you really have to be on point dodging.
 

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The Frozen one. Every time I go back to KH3, the Frozen world is one that I always dread going back to because it's so utterly boring.

Deep Jungle's annoying too but at least it's memorable just for that alone. There is nothing that I remember about Arendelle at all.
 

Face My Fears

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The Frozen one. Every time I go back to KH3, the Frozen world is one that I always dread going back to because it's so utterly boring.

Deep Jungle's annoying too but at least it's memorable just for that alone. There is nothing that I remember about Arendelle at all.
Just Let It Go.
 

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Also, to the argument about worlds "being done to death", would there be such an uproar of disgust doing a world like Agrabah again and fighting Jafar over visiting a new world that awkwardly fits into the KH story and ends with a giant heartless boss fight? I would have taken a returning world over (what we got for) Arendelle any day. I think it adds some depth to the story, where Sora can actually visit a world and have history there, so it doesn't feel like we're starting brand new in each world. That way, some main story stuff can be covered in that world instead of looking at the new, shiny world. On top of that, we wouldn't have to "maintain world order".
*raises hand* I might as well throw my hat in the ring then, because I'm one of the most vocal on worlds being done to death. I know I can't speak for everyone, but I'm personally VERY tired of having to visit places like Olympus, Agrabah and Wonderland. I don't care if UE4 can make every grain of sand visually distinct, it's still the same world that we've been going to just with new areas/visual flair. Is it great that Olympus added stratos and pyros to the titan bossfight at the top of Mt. Olympus, yes because prior to that rendering something such as a sentient hurricane and living lava mass with PS2 era hardware would've looked terrible, but now looks as you'd expect. Does that mean I want to fight them and Hades again? no, just no, because I've already done that 5 times at this point, and I don't want to do it any more. If Nomura's desperate for an arena, just use the mirage arena, it gives more to work with and I miss it terribly.

I know the argument for Agrabah is that they could do Snake Jafar or King of Thieves which would bring in new locations. But to me it still doesn't matter because they're falling back on their safety net. They KNOW the world will be a hit because it's Aladdin, you run around in the damn desert, fight desert themed heartless and have Aladdin as a party member (again...). That isn't to say I'm against worlds returning, I LOVED The Caribbean in KH3 and was amazed at the level of detail they put in for areas that are largely optional to the player. Wouldn't it be great if Sora were to join Blackbeard and his hunt for mermaids to find the fountain of youth, and him feeling conflicted because of him knowing Ariel and what they're really like? But no, we've got to go hang with Aladdin and Hercules again because their stories are public domain, no nasty copyrights to fight over in the house of mouse.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not against certain worlds returning that haven't appeared recently. Worlds like Neverland and Deep Space (or Kakaoa Town I guess) would make great locations for future settings with updated graphics. But if another world slot or two has to be wasted on Agrabah or Olympus, then what's the point. I'd take another muddled mess like Arendelle (though not that movie again please) over Agrabah any day of the week.
 

Face My Fears

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*raises hand* I might as well throw my hat in the ring then, because I'm one of the most vocal on worlds being done to death. I know I can't speak for everyone, but I'm personally VERY tired of having to visit places like Olympus, Agrabah and Wonderland. I don't care if UE4 can make every grain of sand visually distinct, it's still the same world that we've been going to just with new areas/visual flair. Is it great that Olympus added stratos and pyros to the titan bossfight at the top of Mt. Olympus, yes because prior to that rendering something such as a sentient hurricane and living lava mass with PS2 era hardware would've looked terrible, but now looks as you'd expect. Does that mean I want to fight them and Hades again? no, just no, because I've already done that 5 times at this point, and I don't want to do it any more. If Nomura's desperate for an arena, just use the mirage arena, it gives more to work with and I miss it terribly.

I know the argument for Agrabah is that they could do Snake Jafar or King of Thieves which would bring in new locations. But to me it still doesn't matter because they're falling back on their safety net. They KNOW the world will be a hit because it's Aladdin, you run around in the damn desert, fight desert themed heartless and have Aladdin as a party member (again...). That isn't to say I'm against worlds returning, I LOVED The Caribbean in KH3 and was amazed at the level of detail they put in for areas that are largely optional to the player. Wouldn't it be great if Sora were to join Blackbeard and his hunt for mermaids to find the fountain of youth, and him feeling conflicted because of him knowing Ariel and what they're really like? But no, we've got to go hang with Aladdin and Hercules again because their stories are public domain, no nasty copyrights to fight over in the house of mouse.

What I'm trying to say is I'm not against certain worlds returning that haven't appeared recently. Worlds like Neverland and Deep Space (or Kakaoa Town I guess) would make great locations for future settings with updated graphics. But if another world slot or two has to be wasted on Agrabah or Olympus, then what's the point. I'd take another muddled mess like Arendelle (though not that movie again please) over Agrabah any day of the week.
So what's the difference if The Caribbean returns in KH IV and we go on an adventure with Blackbeard versus Agrabah returning and doing the King of Thieves storyline? Both are returning worlds and both are new storylines. The only difference is what your issue with Agrabah seems to be and that's The Caribbean would be THE most recent world... while Agrabah was last done over a decade ago, unless you actually count Dark Road.

Does anyone actually count Agrabah or Halloween Town or Wonderland visits in games like Days or coded as ACTUAL visits? I don't. They're clearly just filler because the assets exist already and they don't want to waste a new world on a spinoff game. I do consider (unfortunately) La Cite des Cloches an actual visit (wasted on a spinoff game) and the same goes for The Grid. So in my eyes, Agrabah hasn't really been done since KH2.

And on the topic of new worlds over old ones... just like the discussion about DISNEY villains nowadays lacking gravitas unlike the older ones, so are the worlds. Sure, the worlds work for the films, but how can worlds from films like Luca, Encanto, SOUL etc. work in MODERN KH games? It would be loads of padding that won't feel authentic to the world and to top it all off, there wouldn't even be an iconic DISNEY villain to fight or even IN the world. The older films had worlds way more attractive to use for a game like KH and offered variety. That's why KH1 was so much fun - each world was vastly different - not only visually, but also how they played.

I definitely don't want Olympus to return - I think Hades should ditch the world and traverse other worlds to get revenge on Sora. Also, Sora's storyline there seems completely done. There's still actual main story stuff that can be done with Agrabah - like Jasmine being a former princess of heart - or the fact that Xehanort was there. Ariel can become one of the new PoH. Halloween Town could be used as a gateway from the land of the dead (Coco) which can be used as a way to get Sora back to life. Sora and Kairi NEED to fly together in NeverLand. WonderLand can actually turn into the new 3D world and actually be understandable. Kiara can be a PoH in The Pride Lands.

Like there's actually a lot that can be done with worlds that Sora established a rapport with the cast. I think that was something that was missing in KH3. The familiar faces that bonded with Sora and the history we built with them is fun to experience. It's kind of sad that the one world GUARANTEED to return (Arendelle), Sora built NO relationships or experiences except barely with Anna.
 

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So what's the difference if The Caribbean returns in KH IV and we go on an adventure with Blackbeard versus Agrabah returning and doing the King of Thieves storyline? Both are returning worlds and both are new storylines. The only difference is what your issue with Agrabah seems to be and that's The Caribbean would be THE most recent world... while Agrabah was last done over a decade ago, unless you actually count Dark Road.
My main issue is that it's been used so much, It's been in KH 1, COM, KH2, Re:Coded, Days, Dark Road and EVEN the lost KH phone game and I can guarantee you if they weren't focused on the 3 other princesses during BBS, it would've been there too. As much as I find 3D tedious, I am thankful it gave us a break from the world because there's only so much Agrabah I can take.
And on the topic of new worlds over old ones... just like the discussion about DISNEY villains nowadays lacking gravitas unlike the older ones, so are the worlds. Sure, the worlds work for the films, but how can worlds from films like Luca, Encanto, SOUL etc. work in MODERN KH games? It would be loads of padding that won't feel authentic to the world and to top it all off, there wouldn't even be an iconic DISNEY villain to fight or even IN the world. The older films had worlds way more attractive to use for a game like KH and offered variety. That's why KH1 was so much fun - each world was vastly different - not only visually, but also how they played.
While Luca and SOUL don't have an actual villain in them (unless we really want Sora to commit more child abuse, he hasn't done enough of that in a hot minute) I think the setting can lean in to more creative heartless designs. Give me a heartless that look like Vespas, or reuse some of the spear lizards from The Caribbean to give the people of Portorosso some justification for their fear of sea monsters, they already look like they'd fit the world anyways. Yeah, KH has been leaning more on heartless for the final bosses of worlds but is that such a bad thing? Would fighting Mother Gothel have had as much impact as the Grim Guardianess? she'd be bascially Maleficent just with a steel dagger and no magic save for Rapunzel's hair. I think it speaks volumes about the team's creativity given the locales they have to work with instead of having to fight X because X is the villain of this world.
I definitely don't want Olympus to return - I think Hades should ditch the world and traverse other worlds to get revenge on Sora. Also, Sora's storyline there seems completely done. There's still actual main story stuff that can be done with Agrabah - like Jasmine being a former princess of heart - or the fact that Xehanort was there. Ariel can become one of the new PoH. Halloween Town could be used as a gateway from the land of the dead (Coco) which can be used as a way to get Sora back to life. Sora and Kairi NEED to fly together in NeverLand. WonderLand can actually turn into the new 3D world and actually be understandable. Kiara can be a PoH in The Pride Lands.
I don't know, out of all the Disney worlds that have appeared, Olympus seems to be one of Nomura's favorites and he'll use ANY excuse to shoehorn it into the plot even if it doesn't make any sense. Need I remind you of the hero's theme that plays in Country of the Musketeers in KH3D? a game where we were so close to going without any nods to that world? Nomura might make up an excuse and say Sora lost his car keys there and necessitate a whole *#@ visit JUST for that. What I want to see is worlds that haven't been featured as much as others, namely those that we've visited 3 times or less in the series as a whole. So that would leave both Olympus and Agrabah out of the running and give us more stories with worlds like Neverland and I guess Beast's Castle if Nomura gets drunk and covers Belle's Magical World. You heard that right, I'd be desperate enough to want a POORLY MADE DISNEY DIRECT TO DVD SEQUEL over Agrabah and Olympus.
It's kind of sad that the one world GUARANTEED to return (Arendelle), Sora built NO relationships or experiences except barely with Anna.
I'm honestly hoping that this is a joke on your part, because I absolutely dread having to go there again. I already had to go through the world in KH3 five times because I wanted to get Oblivion for the secret boss, and each visit to that damn world was always the first chance I got because I wanted it over and done with.
 

Alpha Baymax

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It has to be Deep Jungle for me, it's just a chore exploring that world. The level design is awful and Kingdom Hearts' controls only make the experience even worse.

DDD in general has really lackluster set of worlds. I guess they put there all the ones that were rejected from earlier games.

I think you're right. The Grid would have been perfect for Kingdom Hearts III but I think the hype of Big Hero 6 meant that the world was relegated due to thematic duplication as the tech world. The only worlds I see specifically making sense for Dream Drop Distance were The Land of Musketeers and Symphony of Sorcery. La Cité des Cloches should have been replaced with The Sword in the Stone, I wanted The Hunchback of Notre Dame to be in Kingdom Hearts III.
 

Face My Fears

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My main issue is that it's been used so much, It's been in KH 1, COM, KH2, Re:Coded, Days, Dark Road and EVEN the lost KH phone game and I can guarantee you if they weren't focused on the 3 other princesses during BBS, it would've been there too. As much as I find 3D tedious, I am thankful it gave us a break from the world because there's only so much Agrabah I can take.

While Luca and SOUL don't have an actual villain in them (unless we really want Sora to commit more child abuse, he hasn't done enough of that in a hot minute) I think the setting can lean in to more creative heartless designs. Give me a heartless that look like Vespas, or reuse some of the spear lizards from The Caribbean to give the people of Portorosso some justification for their fear of sea monsters, they already look like they'd fit the world anyways. Yeah, KH has been leaning more on heartless for the final bosses of worlds but is that such a bad thing? Would fighting Mother Gothel have had as much impact as the Grim Guardianess? she'd be bascially Maleficent just with a steel dagger and no magic save for Rapunzel's hair. I think it speaks volumes about the team's creativity given the locales they have to work with instead of having to fight X because X is the villain of this world.

I don't know, out of all the Disney worlds that have appeared, Olympus seems to be one of Nomura's favorites and he'll use ANY excuse to shoehorn it into the plot even if it doesn't make any sense. Need I remind you of the hero's theme that plays in Country of the Musketeers in KH3D? a game where we were so close to going without any nods to that world? Nomura might make up an excuse and say Sora lost his car keys there and necessitate a whole *#@ visit JUST for that. What I want to see is worlds that haven't been featured as much as others, namely those that we've visited 3 times or less in the series as a whole. So that would leave both Olympus and Agrabah out of the running and give us more stories with worlds like Neverland and I guess Beast's Castle if Nomura gets drunk and covers Belle's Magical World. You heard that right, I'd be desperate enough to want a POORLY MADE DISNEY DIRECT TO DVD SEQUEL over Agrabah and Olympus.

I'm honestly hoping that this is a joke on your part, because I absolutely dread having to go there again. I already had to go through the world in KH3 five times because I wanted to get Oblivion for the secret boss, and each visit to that damn world was always the first chance I got because I wanted it over and done with.
I mean I get that Agrabah has been used in almost every game, the same applies to Olympus, but is there something wrong with having a little consistency? Although, I do admit that I don't think Sora had the best relationship with Hercules. If there were a recurring DISNEY world, I think it should be one that Sora is very good friends with the character and a world that is from a popular movie and has a lot of potential.

Honestly, I think Agrabah is a world that has endless potential because of locations like the Cave of Wonders and the genie/magic aspect. Aladdin and Sora also seem more like friends that Herc/Sora. Another world I think should be recurring is Atlantica. Sora and Ariel have really good chemistry as friends, also Atlantica can have several stories expanded from it because Triton knows about the keyblade and there's a lot of magic and secrets involved with that world. I definitely would not want to see Agrabah and Olympus in the same game, but I would rather Agrabah because we haven't seen what can be done with the world. Also, the most I can see happening with Olympus is another extension: Underworld and Coliseum added to what's already in KH3. I don't get why Nomura loves Olympus so much because Hercules wasn't a great movie.

I was actually saying that I was sad that Arendelle was the guaranteed world to return, out of all of the worlds in KH3. I don't want Arendelle to return, but it's basically guaranteed. Mainly because Sora barely made any connections in that world - like ONE conversation with Elsa. Ugh.
 

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I'm still kindly new to the franchise, but I would have to say Wonderland. It was just so infuriating, and the Trickmaster gave me such a headache.
 

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I'm hearing Deep Jungle and Arandelle, but...*sigh*- I mean-- seriously, does anyone- like, remember Neverland in 358/2 Days!!?? How can you complain that Deep Jungle and Arandelle were sooo boring when Neverland in Days was literally probably the smallest world in KH ever. Plus, to add to that, there is less to do than Arrandelle or Deep Jungle. I mean, at least Deep Jungle had parkour, and Arandelle had good, fun bosses.
 

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I'm hearing Deep Jungle and Arandelle, but...*sigh*- I mean-- seriously, does anyone- like, remember Neverland in 358/2 Days!!?? How can you complain that Deep Jungle and Arandelle were sooo boring when Neverland in Days was literally probably the smallest world in KH ever. Plus, to add to that, there is less to do than Arrandelle or Deep Jungle. I mean, at least Deep Jungle had parkour, and Arandelle had good, fun bosses.
I distinctly remember Neverland as I always wanted to go there in any KH iteration. I was stuck on the final boss of beast's castle for the longest time until I was able to unlock it. And the point with Neverland is that it's implied to be very expansive, given the amount of times you're put on various islands to justify the flight mechanic that is a prevalent theme to the visits.
And on the point of smallest world in KH ever, you're wrong, Olympus Colliseum in KH 1 holds that distinction with only 2 (3 if you count the arena) for the entire game. Neverland, as small as you might think it is, is at least bigger than that world.
 
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