Changed Opinions on KH Games

[Launchpad]

are there any hard opinions you used to hold on KH games, where you feel opposite now? I'll start.

- I used to think DDD was AMAZING and way better than KH2, and also thought the command deck was much better than the command menu. Now, without recency bias (DDD is 13 years old) I think DDD is truly awful and there are so few good parts to look forward to. I think my dislike of KH2's level design allowed DDD's relatively mediocre but highly vertical levels dazzle me.

- KH2FM and KH3RM used to be equal for me, but now I've got KH3 ahead. KH3 is just easier to replay, it's a lot breezier and it lacks the built-in chores of KH2 (form grinding, mini-game onslaughts, more intrusive gummi). KH2's combat is more fancy, but it takes a long time for that fanciness to come into play, whereas KH3 gives you all your relevant tools in the first world.

- Until recently, I was kind of ambivalent to the story. Like thousands of others, I was a "i just wanna laugh at it" guy, but I honestly DO want to see more in KH4. There ARE characters I care about and want to have effective moments.

 

[AR829038]

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I've kinda gotten tired of Roxas over the years.

Not that I don't like his character, I just think he's been over-utilized and overhyped in the lore. I loved him when he was just this kid that had all this messed up stuff happening to him because of an aspect of his identity he couldn't control or resist. After KH2 and Days he just became this lingering background fixation that the series was constantly bringing up to tug on our heart strings. By the time he showed up in KH3, I was glad to have him back, but I was also feeling like, "alright, mission accomplished, we don't have to keep milking your tragic backstory anymore, you can go now."

Idk, maybe I'm a bit cold for feeling that way, but I just feel like Roxas had this really nice potent story that just got beaten to death by both Nomura and the fans over the years. Even 15 years later, it's like, "Ugh, yes, Roxas is best sad boy and we love him, but can we PLEASE do something more interesting with him or move on from this now?" I mean, the KH2 prologue was sad and all, but it wasn't freaking Schindler's List.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if he and Xion and the Wayfinder trio and a lot of the characters whose tragedies were the crux of the last saga just take a well-earned backseat for a while and let some other people be the focus from now on.

 

[Perkilator]

After beating it in KH1 recently, I found Atlantica pretty harmless, even for all its finicky control styles.

 

[Launchpad]

After beating it in KH1 recently, I found Atlantica pretty harmless, even for all its finicky control styles.

Same-- it's still my least favorite but something clicked for me recently. All KH1 worlds have a peaceful, no-enemies state AFTER you seal the keyhole and BEFORE you leave the world. The most irritating thing in Atlantica is having enemies interrupt your treasure hunting with how many enemies spawn. Getting all the treasures AFTER beating Ursula eliminates a lot of pain.

Also the shortcut from the sunken ship straight to Ariel's Grotto is a huge time-saver that I've neglected for too long.

 

[Squood!]

Unpopular opinion perhaps, but I've kinda gotten tired of Roxas over the years.

Not that I don't like his character, I just think he's been over-utilized and overhyped in the lore. I loved him when he was just this kid that had all this messed up stuff happening to him because of an aspect of his identity he couldn't control or resist. After KH2 and Days he just became this lingering background fixation that the series was constantly bringing up to tug on our heart strings. By the time he showed up in KH3, I was glad to have him back, but I was also feeling like, "alright, mission accomplished, we don't have to keep milking your tragic backstory anymore, you can go now."

Idk, maybe I'm a bit cold for feeling that way, but I just feel like Roxas had this really nice potent story that just got beaten to death by both Nomura and the fans over the years. Even 15 years later, it's like, "Ugh, yes, Roxas is best sad boy and we love him, but can we PLEASE do something more interesting with him or move on from this now?" I mean, the KH2 prologue was sad and all, but it wasn't freaking Schindler's List.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if he and Xion and the Wayfinder trio and a lot of the characters whose tragedies were the crux of the last saga just take a well-earned backseat for a while and let some other people be the focus from now on.

I dunno. I feel like ReCoded is sort of...the one instance where it feels like they're pushing it, partially by actively making him an almost stereotypical antagonistic sad boy via Data-Roxas who despite his role there actively seems to wanna knock Data-Sora down a peg for not feeling the way he does.

As for my changed opinion...I thought KH2 was perfect but realized that outside of the gameplay I only enjoy certain worlds and vastly prefer the original stuff, while also thinking that even the second visits aren't exactly up to snuff.

I've grown on dolan and Goobert bein' your bois through the final fight of KH3 compared to my initial "UGH WHY" as I felt that even with the ability to use four whole party members the finale never bothered. Nowadays, yeah it's a pretty good way to end things as they've been there from...the post Island start, especially with ReMind givin' me a Guardians battle and a SoraKiwi battle. But I still feel lingering sadness that SRK still haven't fought together yet.

 

[AR829038]

I dunno. I feel like ReCoded is sort of...the one instance where it feels like they're pushing it, partially by actively making him an almost stereotypical antagonistic sad boy via Data-Roxas who despite his role there actively seems to wanna knock Data-Sora down a peg for not feeling the way he does.

For me, I started feeling it towards the end of DDD. Mainly 'cause the scene between Sora and Roxas in TWTNW felt like a retread of what we already went through with the end of both KH2 and Coded. Like, it felt like the third straight time in a row where Sora learns that Roxas is his own person who matters. Like, we get it already.

Again, I'm not mad they brought him back in KH3, I just think his whole character arc became so one-note after Days and the series just kept rehashing it because Roxas was a fan favorite. Gave me the same vibes as giving Lea his own Keyblade just because Axel was popular.

 

[MATGSY]

I don't think any opinions of a given game have really changed, like I still say Days was a misguided mess of a game. That said, I might be coming around more to the general overall story, namely the reliance on original characters over Disney characters like in KH1. It was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, seeing just how much KH2 drastically shifted gears on what elements got the focus. & then all following games continued the trend, meaning it wasn't just a 1-off deal either.

I've come around to understanding that A. Disney are too restrictive with their characters to ever allow for any compelling story telling with any of their characters B. even if they weren't, there's still only so much that can be done with a cast of characters who's individual arcs were already completed in their respective films & C. Trying to do too much serious stuff with Disney characters would be mocked to hell & back online (imagine if Goofy actually died for real in KH2. You'd never hear the end of it). So focusing on more OCs was kind of a necessity.

A microcosm of this comes in the form of Disney villain boss fights & how they've diminished over the years. Back in the day, getting to throw down with some of the biggest bads of my childhood was 1 of, if not THE, coolest things about KH1. The 1st scene with all the villains gathered is practically what sold me on the whole damn series. & I feel like my continued following of this series is basically just me chasing that particular high again. Thus, it's always a disappointment whenever a potential boss battle doesn't happen or when a game feels lacking overall in that department (again, Days is a misguided mess). That said, it is also something that was probably inevitable with multiple glaring problems that come with Disney bosses:

1. Most of the heaviest of heavy hitters were all in the 1st game. A witch that became a dragon, an immortal god of the dead, 2 of the 4 titans, an all-powerful genie, & a gargantuan sea witch. All subsequent games are either repeating some of these foes or having to put in less powerful villains.

2. Sora's escalating skillset over each game. The Disney villains of KH1 are a lot more imposing when the player only has a basic 3-hit combo, flimsy-ass magic, & a zoomed in camera. Significantly less so when Sora's doing 15-hit human-buzzsaw combos while doing flips & running up walls.

3. Disney villains are at least somewhat restrained by their canonical abilities (Scar notwithstanding). Whereas original villains can be designed to do whatever Square wants them to & thus can scale accordingly with the player.

4. Many Disney villains don't even have any real physical strength or magic & were just scheming masterminds.

5. Disney & Pixar backing off on traditional villains for the last decade-ish. Gothel was the last outright evil character they've had until Wish & her superpower was gaslighting.

6. The aforementioned restrictions that Disney/Pixar put. It's downright weird that Pixar were against allowing for any such bosses in their worlds & isn't promising for the future. Imagine a Turning Red world that didn't have the giant angry Mom boss? Or Incredibles without any of the supervillains even if they were fought in other games?

So basically, there isn't even a super huge list of viable candidates left at this point. You got some that throw a punch like Sere Khan or Sheriff of Nottingham who could've posed some threat to a low-level KH1 Sora like Sabor & Clayton, but are a joke by today's standards. Hell, I was disappointed in the Davy Jones fight because sword attack & teleporting was all he did.

As a side note, this is also part of why I'm ok with the inclusion of Star Wars, Marvel, & Fox IPs for future worlds. Square kinda has to start dipping into sith lords & comic book villains to flesh out future Disney villain line-ups.

 

[Squood!]

I don't think any opinions of a given game have really changed, like I still say Days was a misguided mess of a game. That said, I might be coming around more to the general overall story, namely the reliance on original characters over Disney characters like in KH1. It was a bitter pill to swallow at the time, seeing just how much KH2 drastically shifted gears on what elements got the focus. & then all following games continued the trend, meaning it wasn't just a 1-off deal either.

I've come around to understanding that A. Disney are too restrictive with their characters to ever allow for any compelling story telling with any of their characters B. even if they weren't, there's still only so much that can be done with a cast of characters who's individual arcs were already completed in their respective films & C. Trying to do too much serious stuff with Disney characters would be mocked to hell & back online (imagine if Goofy actually died for real in KH2. You'd never hear the end of it). So focusing on more OCs was kind of a necessity.

A microcosm of this comes in the form of Disney villain boss fights & how they've diminished over the years. Back in the day, getting to throw down with some of the biggest bads of my childhood was 1 of, if not THE, coolest things about KH1. The 1st scene with all the villains gathered is practically what sold me on the whole damn series. & I feel like my continued following of this series is basically just me chasing that particular high again. Thus, it's always a disappointment whenever a potential boss battle doesn't happen or when a game feels lacking overall in that department (again, Days is a misguided mess). That said, it is also something that was probably inevitable with multiple glaring problems that come with Disney bosses:

1. Most of the heaviest of heavy hitters were all in the 1st game. A witch that became a dragon, an immortal god of the dead, 2 of the 4 titans, an all-powerful genie, & a gargantuan sea witch. All subsequent games are either repeating some of these foes or having to put in less powerful villains.

2. Sora's escalating skillset over each game. The Disney villains of KH1 are a lot more imposing when the player only has a basic 3-hit combo, flimsy-ass magic, & a zoomed in camera. Significantly less so when Sora's doing 15-hit human-buzzsaw combos while doing flips & running up walls.

3. Disney villains are at least somewhat restrained by their canonical abilities (Scar notwithstanding). Whereas original villains can be designed to do whatever Square wants them to & thus can scale accordingly with the player.

4. Many Disney villains don't even have any real physical strength or magic & were just scheming masterminds.

5. Disney & Pixar backing off on traditional villains for the last decade-ish. Gothel was the last outright evil character they've had until Wish & her superpower was gaslighting.

6. The aforementioned restrictions that Disney/Pixar put. It's downright weird that Pixar were against allowing for any such bosses in their worlds & isn't promising for the future. Imagine a Turning Red world that didn't have the giant angry Mom boss? Or Incredibles without any of the supervillains even if they were fought in other games?

So basically, there isn't even a super huge list of viable candidates left at this point. You got some that throw a punch like Sere Khan or Sheriff of Nottingham who could've posed some threat to a low-level KH1 Sora like Sabor & Clayton, but are a joke by today's standards. Hell, I was disappointed in the Davy Jones fight because sword attack & teleporting was all he did.

As a side note, this is also part of why I'm ok with the inclusion of Star Wars, Marvel, & Fox IPs for future worlds. Square kinda has to start dipping into sith lords & comic book villains to flesh out future Disney villain line-ups.

Yeah, I agree with this. People go on about wanting characters like Zurg or Randall or even fucking Gothel and Hans as fights when even with his frequent returns to Level 1, Sora would steamroll them at this point.

1: Outside of the Buzz Lightyear cartoon, Zurg is a one-note joke based on Vader who can only shoot balls.

2: Randall, despite his chameleon gimmick, wouldn't even cut it as a side-piece to Lump of Horror. He's a schemer, nothing more whose most combative action was choking Sully out before being beaten up by a fucking toddler.

3: Gothel and Hans could be fucked up by even KH1 Sora.

The fact that they've been backing off traditional villains too is a good point. Like, what would that lamb from Zootopia do? Hell, we've had like THREE movies where the "villain" was some form of familial trouble that Sora legit cannot take part in unless he suddenly gains an understanding of menstruation and aspects of womanhood, mother/daughter tensions, or...your old man being racist against water.

 

[Launchpad]

People are so crazy about wanting a Zurg fight and they're literally wrong about it lmao. If anything it'd have made a good joke fight, like Buzz builds Zurg up as a destroyer of worlds, and begs Sora to help. Sora gets a little nervous as Zurg appears, but then in the fight he can be killed with one combo

 

[MATGSY]

See, the thing is, King of Toys easily could've been the Zurg fight. My idea for a Zurg boss prior to the game's release was him piloting some big toy spaceship. In the end, we got the spaceship, but they made it a heartless instead for some reason. It feels like with a few minor adjustments, like if they just simply replaced the heartless' head with Zurg's, they could've had the exact same boss battle, but it's a Disney boss.

& Hell, you can't say a Zurg boss wouldn't work when Angelic Amber exists. You're seriously telling the boys' action figure has less combat viability than a wannabe Barbie?! Plus it doesn't have to be Zurg, we were teased darkness-possessed Evil Buzz & that got resolved offscreen. The Battlesaurs were an easter egg cameo, we could've Reptillus Maximus as a mini-boss. Especially if that human-sized statue of him were to come to life.

Ah hell, would you look at that? I just done did complete relapse on my opinions. Yes, there are limits as to how far they can go with Disney bosses, but they haven't reached those limits yet! The same dev team that gave us the Magic Mirror from Snow White or the cat from Cinderella seriously couldn't come up with anything for Toy Story or Monsters Inc.? Nah man, I ain't buying it.

 

[Launchpad]

See, the thing is, King of Toys easily could've been the Zurg fight. My idea for a Zurg boss prior to the game's release was him piloting some big toy spaceship. In the end, we got the spaceship, but they made it a heartless instead for some reason. It feels like with a few minor adjustments, like if they just simply replaced the heartless' head with Zurg's, they could've had the exact same boss battle, but it's a Disney boss.

& Hell, you can't say a Zurg boss wouldn't work when Angelic Amber exists. You're seriously telling the boys' action figure has less combat viability than a wannabe Barbie?! Plus it doesn't have to be Zurg, we were teased darkness-possessed Evil Buzz & that got resolved offscreen. The Battlesaurs were an easter egg cameo, we could've Reptillus Maximus as a mini-boss. Especially if that human-sized statue of him were to come to life.

Ah hell, would you look at that? I just done did complete relapse on my opinions. Yes, there are limits as to how far they can go with Disney bosses, but they haven't reached those limits yet! The same dev team that gave us the Magic Mirror from Snow White or the cat from Cinderella seriously couldn't come up with anything for Toy Story or Monsters Inc.? Nah man, I ain't buying it.

oh, I'm always an advocate of random power-ups for Disney characters. Fire and electricity Scar is funny and awesome as fuck to me. What gets me laughing with Zurg is the pre-emptive and post-release complaint that they're not using ZURG!!! How could they not use ZURG????? When... this is a world set AFTER Toy Story 2, and Zurg isn't a villain at all within the universe of Toy Story. Within the scope of the Toy Story films, Zurg is nothing more than a joke character, so trying to elevate him to primary world antagonist status is really silly.

on the topic of changed opinions, this is less of a change and more of a recent realization: Re:Coded really is as slick as people say. I still think the command deck is an innately flawed system that emphasizes cooldowns far too much for the combat system's health, but damn that game makes command usage feel fun and seamless far better than BBS and DDD ever did.

 

[MATGSY]

oh, I'm always an advocate of random power-ups for Disney characters. Fire and electricity Scar is funny and awesome as fuck to me. What gets me laughing with Zurg is the pre-emptive and post-release complaint that they're not using ZURG!!! How could they not use ZURG????? When... this is a world set AFTER Toy Story 2, and Zurg isn't a villain at all within the universe of Toy Story. Within the scope of the Toy Story films, Zurg is nothing more than a joke character, so trying to elevate him to primary world antagonist status is really silly.

on the topic of changed opinions, this is less of a change and more of a recent realization: Re:Coded really is as slick as people say. I still think the command deck is an innately flawed system that emphasizes cooldowns far too much for the combat system's health, but damn that game makes command usage feel fun and seamless far better than BBS and DDD ever did.

YX was the antagonist but not the end boss of it. Zurg as an underling to YX, especially when heartless possessing toys is already a subplot of the world, isn't an unreasonable conclusion.

 

[Launchpad]

YX was the antagonist but not the end boss of it. Zurg as an underling to YX, especially when heartless possessing toys is already a subplot of the world, isn't an unreasonable conclusion.

i mean, sure? a context can definitely be created where Zurg is changed and made into an enemy in the game. that doesn't make the broad notion that Zurg was some massive missed opportunity any less odd. I know he was a major antagonist in the cartoon spinoff, but that's an entirely different setting and story. A Zurg inclusion could be fun, but they weren't mistaken in omitting him. That, along with the fact that Buzz is meant to be taken a fair deal more seriously in KH3 is reason enough to leave Zurg out, considering Zurg plays into Buzz's more deluded, comedic side.

Randall feels like the much larger missed opportunity considering not only is he one of the villains of the movie, but he takes enough of an ass-beating in the film to justify being allowed to harm him in the game. I've warmed up a LOT to Lump of Horror as one of the more engaging and enjoyable KH3 world bosses, but it still feels odd that Randall antagonizes us for the entire world and isn't fought.

 

[PikaPal]

Didn't enjoy Chain of Memories at first because of the whole card based battle system but after going back to it I definitely eased into it a little more. It's even possible to make some really wild decks as well so there's plenty of different combinations. Managed to recently make it to Level 99 on Sora's side too.

Also avoided Re:Coded for a long while up until I eventually decided to get it last year for a decent price so I can add another game into the collection and not only did I really enjoy it a lot, I prefer it gameplay wise to 358/2 Days. It's fun, it's really flashy for a DS game and I especially love the levelling up system. So much easier to play around with instead of having to play Tetris in 358/2 Days with the whole Panel system. Definitely makes up for the weakest story in the series.

 

[TheBigRed_]

HOT TAKE/CHANGED OPINION

#1 KH3 was Good At Launch DLC made it even BETTER!

#2 KHBBS was Mechanically Bad!

 

[Squood!]

Hell, you can't say a Zurg boss wouldn't work when Angelic Amber exists. You're seriously telling the boys' action figure has less combat viability than a wannabe Barbie?!

Considering said action figure's only combat option is shooting balls...yeah kinda.

Randall feels like the much larger missed opportunity considering not only is he one of the villains of the movie, but he takes enough of an ass-beating in the film to justify being allowed to harm him in the game. I've warmed up a LOT to Lump of Horror as one of the more engaging and enjoyable KH3 world bosses, but it still feels odd that Randall antagonizes us for the entire world and isn't fought.

I'd agree, but I repeatedly remember that Randall got his ass beat...by a toddler, was easily subdued, then got beat up by a hick with a broom. With that in mind, plus how before all that he was basically a working-class joe[albeit high on the leaderboard]...I just can't see him as a viable fight in any capacity cuz he's just someone Sora could take out incredibly easily.

 

[NoName]

I used to like the fact that we would be getting sequels. Not anymore. At least, I would have liked that the main characters' arc were finished.
Storywise I used to have a recency bias, now I love all the games equally except III. To be fair, I was in denial for a bit but now I realized I was disapointed by III. I still loved it but the fanservice was overwhelming and they really regressed Sora mentally. He was always about the power of friendship but I feel (after multiple playthroughs over the year) that he was more subtle and eloquent about it in previous entries.
I used to hate lion king's world in KH2. Now I am indifferent to it.
I used to think 2 had the best bosses. Now I think 3 has the best bosses (thanks to the dlc).
Otherwise, my opinions did not change much. I grew up with those games, I remember being so excited when 1.5 and then 2.5 came out. I would spend school only thinking about the time I would get home and be able to play with my brothers. Even after playing hundreds of hours to those games, they all have incredible atmosphere and tone. Even Union X evoque good feelings for me. And listening to dearly beloved is such a nostalgia trip (I restrain myself to listenning it too much to preserve the beauty and novelty of it)
But I am not sure new KH titles will manage to retain that spirit and that saddens me. (sorry for the off topic comments, first time sharing my experience with anyone of KH despite playing it for so long)

 

[Elysium]

My opinion of KH2 and Days has softened over time. FM makes 2 a little more enjoyable thanks to puzzle pieces and the mushrooms. And when I re-played Days a couple of years ago, I actually really liked it. Back when it released, I found it very disappointing.

 

[Launchpad]

My opinion of KH2 and Days has softened over time. FM makes 2 a little more enjoyable thanks to puzzle pieces and the mushrooms. And when I re-played Days a couple of years ago, I actually really liked it. Back when it released, I found it very disappointing.

I used to be a KH2 hater KH1 truther, and while my preference still generally leans away from KH2, I've grown fonder of the fact that the numbered titles all have such different strengths. KH2's generally incurious levels and incessant minigames drive me nuts but it's still such a slick and fancy game.