Cropped Cutscenes

[johnboy3434]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

But that's not fully real. A lot of the elements on the side were stretched, like the HUD and the command menu. I'll give you that most of the 3D graphics are skillfully done, but it's still not true widescreen in cutscenes because of the thin black bars.

The basic point still stands: if a couple nerds can do that much with nothing but a retail copy of the game and some elbow grease, it would be child's play for Square to produce a non-cropped widescreen version when they have access to all of the original elements and a group of industry professionals. I'm hoping that they actually are doing that and the code just wasn't ready when they made the trailer.

 

[ajmrowland]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

In an improvement, there actually is some changes in the angle for the framing.

http://i.imgur.com/URuDY.jpg

 

[Rydgea]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

You could argue they cropped off Ansem SoD though. The point is, what's important of what's being cropped is mostly relative for now. Let's wait and see what all unfolds. Undoubtedly, there will be magical ending results.

 

[Jadentheman]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

Here is the comparison scenes video (spanish I know). I see the aspect being ruined. One thing to note though is that Square also change some post production effects like bloom and lighting too (other then re:com models, though it just looks like the same KH1 models with re:com/ddd textures).


[video=youtube;6y9PVuPJZdo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y9PVuPJZdo[/video]

 

[ajmrowland]

That video uses the 4:3 screens so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

And to respond to Rydgea, I dont think it's that subjective that Ansem SoD's chin is that important in that shot. Is the chin even in the original cutscene and not just shown in the 4:3 version?

 

[prjio307]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

The basic point still stands: if a couple nerds can do that much with nothing but a retail copy of the game and some elbow grease, it would be child's play for Square to produce a non-cropped widescreen version when they have access to all of the original elements and a group of industry professionals. I'm hoping that they actually are doing that and the code just wasn't ready when they made the trailer.

This could actually very well be the case. After all, they did say that the game wasn't finished yet. They must be working on something​.

 

[Hillboy]

Am I the only one who prefers the cropped cut-scenes?

Whatever~

 

[Luap]

Am I the only one who prefers the cropped cut-scenes?

Whatever~

I just think it's a non-issue. It looks beautiful. On an emulator you won't get all these upgraded textures and models. In 1.5, you do!

 

[rokudamia2]

I just think it's a non-issue. It looks beautiful. On an emulator you won't get all these upgraded textures and models. In 1.5, you do!

I agree with this. I didn't even notice the cropping.

 

[ajmrowland]

yeah, it is kinda hard to notice, even for me. Sometimes tighter framing works out better(read: Riku/Repliku in CO), and sometimes it doesnt(read: Jungle Book DVD)

And to add to that, in movies, sometimes the opposite happens and the newer cut/version gets an open matte Aspect ratio, like Titanic's Imax 3D and 3D Blu-ray.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Bumping this so people can talk about cropping all they want.

 

[MasterSora91]

There is no cropping in the cut scenes. here is a link to the original "once we set sail" cut scene. Let's Play: Kingdom Hearts - Part 4 - I just Can't wait. Once we set sail, it'll be great. - YouTube Its the original 4:3 cut scene but its being stretched, but that doesn't matter because all of the image is visible. Compare the hd scene with sora and kairi sitting on the dock and you will see the same amount of the image is being shown. There are some videos of this scene on youtube with the original version running on emulators with the ability to remove the bottom and top bars in cut scenes which allowed more of the image in cut scenes to be shown. No Cropping!

the original ps2 version always had the top and bottom black bars.

I disagree. while losing a few pixels in and of itself is trivial, sometimes the framing may feel a little cramped, and a lack of pan and scan can make a shot like Ansem floating in the air for the first time lose it's feeling because the top of his head is missing. still trivial by comparison, but that's where I feel the power of that shot lies and makes you feel more like you're looking up at him than in the trailer.

the same reasons why many think it's wrong to crop for widescreen viewing. as a movie buff and future filmmaker, i feel everyone must watch in the original aspect ratio or a ratio that doesnt sacrifice the integrity of the original product. Spock, I see your point, but this is not simply a crop. it's a badly done one-at least in that one shot. pixels are pixels. framing is everything else.

Edit: Actually, I just looked at a screen of the original. It really is the bottom that gets cropped, so it's nothing.

And yes, it's just a trailer. For all we know, they're planning on reprogramming the cutscene camera and havent gotten around to it yet. Of course, considering it's an in-game camera it could take just about every shot.

And to you, Oathkeeper: can you remind me what the reactions to the first DDD trailer was? All I remember was the awesomeness of flowmotion and the fact they were returning to TT to fight Xemnas and Ansem.

Notice anything weird about that? That's not even the proper aspect ratio. the true AR of cutscenes in the PS2 games is 1.66:1. This is closer to 1.33:1 or 4:3. I didnt notice until just now, so it kind of a trivial difference, but how can somebody who posted a link to this as a representative of the original make an accurate comparison

this isn't an original screen shot of this scene. if it was there would be black bars on the top and bottom. this is a screenshot of this scene ran on an emulator with the ability to remove those bars. try to find the original on youtube and you will see. seems many people have forgotten that the scenes always had top and bottom bars.

 

[Luap]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

For those concerned about cropping:

Kingdom Hearts Part 4# - Destiny Island, Day One [Cutscenes] - YouTube

In this video, go to about 2:45.

Then look at the screenshot of SRK on the tree in this scan:
http://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM HEARTS HD ReMIX/Scans/Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Scan.jpg

No cropping at all.

 

[MasterSora91]

or compare these videos. in this original video go to about 18:36 Kingdom Hearts: Hollow Bastion - First Visit - YouTube

then compare with the HD version at about 1:17 Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 HD Remake Trailer Official KINGDOM HEARTS 1.5 HD ReMIX TGS Trailer - YouTube

In an improvement, there actually is some changes in the angle for the framing.

http://i.imgur.com/URuDY.jpg

Lol this is also an image from an emulator. you see how there are no bars at the top and bottom. seeing ansems teeth is not suppose to be possible on the ps2 version because the top bar would be covering them. so this is a misleading comparison

 

[ajmrowland]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

If the sides were extended, no visuals from the original 4:3 render would have been cut off. It would have shown everything as we remembered it with even more showing on the sides (it would most likely look a bit odd too, since added footage would be looking "empty" as the original scenes were directed to have everything happen within a 4:3 frame so there was no need to make things happen off screen).

Like I said, I would be happy if someone would prove me wrong, but it really looks to me like they've cut off visuals at the top and bottom from the original aspect ratio to make it widescreen.

And the cutscenes will definitely be cropped. The pre-rendered ones, I mean. There were no additional information outside of the original 4:3 frame created for them. Square Enix cropped the CGI movies for all of the Final Fantasy remakes they released for the PSP for this very reason. They seem to think people will rather watch them cropped so that they can fill up the entire screen than in their original aspect ratio with black bars on the sides. Their crops are well done, but it would still be nice to have a theatre mode with the original aspect ratio videos for purists, imo.

reframing refers to any combination of cropping *and* extension. It's not necessarily a complete retooling of the shot along the lines of adjusting the camera angle as much as it is adjusting the shot to match the aspect ration without diverting the focus. Otherwise it's simply open-matte.

Since Kh was made in 4:3, with the intent of cropping for some cutscenes, there was no foresight of it being given a full widescreen release. the cropping then was done to signal a cutscene and the shots were framed with that cropping in mind but if you watch them now, it's easy to notice they're not in 16:9 even then. 16:9 is closer to 1.78:1(math: 1=height, everything else is width relative to the height for those who arent well versed in this), but the cutscenes are closer to what some Disney movies had on DVD which are 1.66:1 noticeably much narrower(a few inches of black bars than 16:9 but wider than 4:3). I assume this because the way KH presented cutscenes looks similar how they(Disney movies) appeared on a standard def 4:3 tv.

Here's a comparison:

Spoiler Show

3:2 being 1.66:1 here now here's an image from KH it's not the same size, but I think you can get the general idea.

It may not appear 3:2 but it's still not 16:9. I might superimpose them later but its christmas. You could argue that they could just replace the camera with a widescreen one that opens the image, but myself and plenty of DVD reviewers will tell you that sometimes, for some shots, just opening the image up whether on the sides or top and bottom could give it too much empty space in which nothing of note is or happens and could run the risk of things like removing viewer attention from the intended subject. that image of xemnas in 4:3 would have a lot more headspace, and one could argue that the empty space on the sides wouldnt matter in that shot but it would in a lot of others, but in this case, the primary subject of attention is his face which itself is actually pretty small here.

Any more proof needed?

 

[Jadentheman]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

For those concerned about cropping:

Kingdom Hearts Part 4# - Destiny Island, Day One [Cutscenes] - YouTube

In this video, go to about 2:45.

Then look at the screenshot of SRK on the tree in this scan:
http://images.khinsider.com/KINGDOM HEARTS HD ReMIX/Scans/Kingdom Hearts 1.5 Scan.jpg

No cropping at all.

Right it seems like they just eliminated the black bars (which were technically 16x9 and in the original envision). Let's see if gameplay camera is true 16x9 though. I hope every game is like this I don't want to fret much over this, but if you can do this in 30 seconds on the emulator then two programmers can certainly go the distance. Especially since they did with model replacement and gameplay changes.

Or maybe they'll keep the cutscenes in the original ratio and extended to real 16x9 for gameplay. That would be the best bet, but we still don't know and magazine scans really don't reveal anything.

 

[-Roxas-XIII-]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

Or maybe they'll keep the cutscenes in the original ratio and extended to real 16x9 for gameplay.

This is probably what they will do.

From what I can tell, the game's cutscenes are at a ratio 1.66:1. 16:9 is 1.77:1 so even if they do slightly crop the custcenes we will only be loosing a few pixels. If it was not cropped, the image in HD would be 1920 x 1152. Since HD resolution is only 1920 x 1080, it means we loose a mere 36 pixels on the top and bottom when it is cropped, which is only 9% of the 1080p resolution. Not a big deal.

For gameplay, the original resolution is 1.33:1 (4:3). Most HD collections released for PS3 have gone to a 16:9 aspect ratio simply by adding extra width to the old 4:3 image. This makes the most sense because if you chop off the top and bottom of the image we would loose 180 pixels on both the top and bottom of the screen (360 pixels total) which is 25% of a 1080p resolution. That is a big deal.

Hopefully they make the correct decisions. It is impossible to tell what they have done simply form trailers and scans, so I guess we'll all have to wait for the game's release before we know for sure. Whatever SE decides to do, I'm sure we won't even notice anyway while we are playing it.

 

[Luap]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

Right it seems like they just eliminated the black bars (which were technically 16x9 and in the original envision).

Doing this seems like the best thing for them to do. Adding in the image covered by the black bars isn't really needed because that stuff wasn't meant to be seen anythings. Sure, an emulator can show you it, but it's not meant to be seen.

Let's see if gameplay camera is true 16x9 though. I hope every game is like this I don't want to fret much over this, but if you can do this in 30 seconds on the emulator then two programmers can certainly go the distance. Especially since they did with model replacement and gameplay changes.

Or maybe they'll keep the cutscenes in the original ratio and extended to real 16x9 for gameplay. That would be the best bet, but we still don't know and magazine scans really don't reveal anything.

From all the gameplay shots it looks like they've made it full 16:9. A lot more stuff is shown on both sides of the screen than possible in the originals, certainly.

 

[MasterSora91]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

Doing this seems like the best thing for them to do. Adding in the image covered by the black bars isn't really needed because that stuff wasn't meant to be seen anythings. Sure, an emulator can show you it, but it's not meant to be seen.



From all the gameplay shots it looks like they've made it full 16:9. A lot more stuff is shown on both sides of the screen than possible in the originals, certainly.

Exactly, everything that was visible in the original cut scenes with the top and bottom black bars is visible in the HD cut scenes, nothing is missing. The scenes aren't being stretched either. The extra parts of the image in the cut scenes ran on the emulator were never suppose to be visible. At least someone gets it.

 

[ajmrowland]

Re: Discussion: Cropped Cutscenes

Doing this seems like the best thing for them to do. Adding in the image covered by the black bars isn't really needed because that stuff wasn't meant to be seen anythings. Sure, an emulator can show you it, but it's not meant to be seen.

This. I know I went into far more complicated and technical detail but generally it all comes down to what was intended to be seen. if something in a cutscene is unimportant it can afford to be cropped in small amounts, until it ends up harming the original intention of the scene. likewise with extensions.

From all the gameplay shots it looks like they've made it full 16:9. A lot more stuff is shown on both sides of the screen than possible in the originals, certainly.

this makes the most sense, for reasons MasterSora mentioned. it also helps that they modified the HUD to be in 16:9.