Do we even need Square characters anymore?

[leonidus]

About a week ago I made a thread about how little Square characters had to do with the general plot and while thinking about it, I accepted the fact that they are what they are: underutilized guests in a series already complicated enough without them. So, while thinking about it I asked myself: "Are new Square characters needed at all anymore?"

In fact, the question becomes whether the existing cast is needed either. Even Squall and the gang, the most important of the bunch, seem to have lost a lot of their status now that the original Org members are back in charge in RG. We haven't even seen or heard of them in DDD when the Org folks waked up and Lea supposedly searched for Braig and Isa "all over the place." I mean, aren't the FF guys technically in charge of Radiant Garden now? Restoration committee and all that? Squall's importance in RG now is basically in the rank of a regent. While this situation would create an interesting tension, I have a feeling it will be underdeveloped like always.

But I digress. Back to the original question and the poll at hand. What do you think, should Square ditch the FF/TWEWY characters at this point?

 

[Ruran]

Huh...these sort of topics usually address Disney. Color me impressed. No really, it's usually "remove Disney, put more Square, and let us go to FF worlds".

Technically, they were never really needed. The Square characters are half advertisements, half to persuade Square fans to go along with their crazy Disney/Square experiment. After KH became a hit they weren't really needed anymore so their was less effort in including them. Being someone who didn't grow up with Square I'm neutral on their presence. They were cameos and they always felt like it, even in KH1. Although, I don't mind them there. It's the kind of thing that if they were to just stop including them, I don't think I'd really notice, but it doesn't bother me them being there either.

 

[Blackdrazon]

a series already complicated enough without them.

If you're gonna go that way you might as well ditch Disney too, because the complication comes from the original plot. Even the Disney feels like an unnecessary appendage most of the time, a series of matte paintings for the plot to play out in front of (and the plot so rarely takes place in front of Disney worlds to begin with). That's why I voted "Yes. It was concieved as a Disney/Square crossover. Let it be that way." Because I feel Square isn't using either of them effectively, and Final Fantasy worst of all (though I liked TWEWY in DDD). What is "Kingdom Hearts?" Is it a crossover, the original story of the keyblade weilders, or both? If it's a crossover or both, why is the crossover so shoddy? If it's just the keyblade bits, why is there a crossover? We've either sprung a leak or we're too heavy! So even though I like the original story, I think future Kingdom Hearts games should repair the crossover into being part of the story. If they want to make an original story they should just make more action-based Final Fantasies after XV, or start a whole new series with no ties to Disney and their other products. Perhaps they will?

That said, if KH3 is nothing but original plot it still wouldn't be enough to tie all the loose ends, so I'm not going to complain if we don't see a single Final Fantasy, TWEWY or non-core Disney character from 3's start to 3's finish. Let's wrap this up.

 

[kuraudoVII]

I personally feel that the Square Enix characters are still needed in the series. Part of the reason that the game sold so well was due to fans who were fans of both Squaresoft and Disney that were interested to see how something so harebrained can actually work. While I didn't quite grow up with them in my earlier years, I became more invested in the Final Fantasy series as I grew older with Kingdom Hearts being part of the reason for my piqued interest. The only real problem with the Square Enix characters in the series overall is that they are often underutilized even for purposes of a cameo (cough*Setzer*cough) and that aside from the major characters such as Squall and co. (and Auron), they are rarely interwoven into the overall plot particularly well. I honestly believe that peoples' opinions are affected by how little they are represented in the Kingdom Hearts series and that if they were given more prominence, then this question would be less of an issue. This is partly why I was disappointed that the developers decided not to add Squall co. in Radiant Garden in Birth by Sleep and have Laguna appear in the game (though to be fair to Laguna, it was either this or Dissidia: Duodecim).

 

[Solo]

In addition to what has been said, it has to be kept in mind too that KH is actually a Disney game developed by SE. That's the reason why we have prominent Disney worlds instead of FF worlds and characters that play significant roles in the game. As for FF worlds, it seems that original worlds such as Radiant Garden, Destiny Islands, and Twilight Town already serve as a parallels to them (in that many FF character in KH hailed from those worlds).

If it were an SE game, then yes, we can probably have more SE characters with bigger roles and visit FF worlds, but unfortunately that is not the case. It might seem that SE characters have been all but sidelined (aside from the TWEWY cast which was just introduced in DDD), but their roles aren't exactly as significant to the advancement of the plot as those of, say, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy since their main purpose is to make cameo appearances.

 

[Zettaflare]

I wouldn't say we need them per say since the series post KH2 has done fine without them. But since the premise of the series was built upon a crossover of Disney and Square elements, it's kind of bothered me that FF characters have taken a backseat.


So I guess my answer would be that while the series probably doesn't need the Square characters anymore, there is no reason why they should be completely removed from the series as well.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

We don't need them but since that was the intended purpose of this series, I would rather we saw FF/TWEWY characters more often than we have the last four games. We don't need them to become huge parts of the story, but it is near impossible to remove the FF influences in KH anyways.

Moogles run the shops and people enjoy them doing so. Spells are traditional FF spells, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy borrowed Magnet from Kingdom Hearts (and even then I think Magnet is inspired from a monster ability in FFV), abilities are based on FF abilities.

TWEWY was actually rather well done in KH3D though it could have probably been better, but that is neither here or there. The thing is FF characters were always intended to be cameos. They weren't going to have big roles and they were in Kingdom Hearts to help sell the game. Clearly the games sell without FF characters, but it is a huge factor in why people picked up the series to begin with.

 

[doortolight]

one problem with this, this game is a square series, thus all its original characters are square characters. we can't have this series without sora

 

[Ruran]

one problem with this, this game is a square series, thus all its original characters are square characters. we can't have this series without sora

As Solosis pointed out, KH is technically a Disney game, Square just makes it. Besides, OP is referring to preexisting Square characters.

 

[khspartan14]

For me, the more the merrier. But like in the hub worlds only, for nostalgia, just, you know, to say hi to. Also, it's always fun to fight the square characters in tournaments, so a couple thrown in here or there would be pretty sweet. And I need Jecht to be introduced, and hit Sora with a blitzball, then make fun of him for crying (which he probably would). Then I'd be set.

But in the overall plot, no I doubt that Nomura is going to have the radiant garden crew do anything really substantial in KH3, let alone new FF characters.

 

[Gram]

To me, even if they are cameos, they are a part of kh to me and it's felt lacking as I watched the cameos vanish. While I dont think they need to be prominent, at least not more than Leon's group, but I do feel they add to the charm and should be implemented at least to the extent they was in kh1.

And that's saying a lot to me because when kh1 first came out I had never heard of Final Fantasy, I had no idea who these human characters were yet looking back I loved their inclusion and have been saddened to see them slowly vanish.

 

[kuraudoVII]

To me, even if they are cameos, they are a part of kh to me and it's felt lacking as I watched the cameos vanish. While I dont think they need to be prominent, at least not more than Leon's group, but I do feel they add to the charm and should be implemented at least to the extent they was in kh1.

And that's saying a lot to me because when kh1 first came out I had never heard of Final Fantasy, I had no idea who these human characters were yet looking back I loved their inclusion and have been saddened to see them slowly vanish.

My thoughts exactly. This may be a Disney game, but it is produced by Square and is filled with waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy too many elements from the Final Fantasy series to simply discard the characters that were part of those elements. A Square game with those elements without any characters from Square Enix other than the original characters that are based on Square Enix characters is just too bizarre for me. Kingdom Hearts is a series that stresses balance. Disney worlds are balanced out by the Final Fantasy mechanics. The Disney characters, many of whom are cameos themselves, vastly outnumber those from Square Enix - and that's even including the original characters in that tally as well.

 

[VenTer]

Kingdom Hearts, since it's first game it is all we know it a cross over of Final Fantasy and Disney. For the past prequals of the series, they decreased it less and less FF characters. Although the game that had the most FF characters is KH2, which has Squall, Yuffie, Aerith, Cid, Cloud, Sephiroth, Yuna, Paine, Rikku, and Auron and Selphie.
I really hoped that they do add more FF characters. Even if Disney own Kingdom Hearts, Square does the work hard for the game and they deserve also to put some of FF worlds too. That's my opinion.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

In addition to what has been said, it has to be kept in mind too that KH is actually a Disney game developed by SE. That's the reason why we have prominent Disney worlds instead of FF worlds and characters that play significant roles in the game. As for FF worlds, it seems that original worlds such as Radiant Garden, Destiny Islands, and Twilight Town already serve as a parallels to them (in that many FF character in KH hailed from those worlds).

If it were an SE game, then yes, we can probably have more SE characters with bigger roles and visit FF worlds, but unfortunately that is not the case. It might seem that SE characters have been all but sidelined (aside from the TWEWY cast which was just introduced in DDD), but their roles aren't exactly as significant to the advancement of the plot as those of, say, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy since their main purpose is to make cameo appearances.

While that is mostly true, the bit about FF worlds isn't because it is Nomura himself who ruled out any FF worlds, not Disney. Nomura does not want any FF worlds in KH because for one the FF characters in KH are not the same as the FF characters from the FF games and for two because he wants to use those characters in environments and situations that differ from the worlds of their original games.

So unless he changes his stance on the matter, we won't see any FF worlds ever within KH regardless if it is primarily a Disney or Square thing.

I really hoped that they do add more FF characters. Even if Disney own Kingdom Hearts, Square does the work hard for the game and they deserve also to put some of FF worlds too. That's my opinion.

Like I pointed out above, there won't be any FF worlds at all and it has nothing to do with Disney.

 

[VenTer]

Like I pointed out above, there won't be any FF worlds at all and it has nothing to do with Disney.

Yeah, you right. I was just thinking about equality. But I guess that's never going to happen.

 

[Gram]

Personally I dont mind if the FF characters get a world or not, to me, the original worlds are kinda like their own worlds. It's these original worlds where they are adapted to fit into the kh-verse after all.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Personally I dont mind if the FF characters get a world or not, to me, the original worlds are kinda like their own worlds. It's these original worlds where they are adapted to fit into the kh-verse after all.

That's why such worlds as Radiant Garden or Destiny Islands were introduced to KH in the first place, to serve as new origins for the KH-incarnations of FF characters beside the KH originals.
People whining that they want Midgar in the game keep forgetting that Cloud, Cid, Yuffie, Aerith and Tifa (Sephiroth can be argued) hail from Radiant Garden in KH, they are not from Midgar.
Likewise with Spira, Gaia from FF IX or the world of FF VIII, as Tidus, Wakka, Selphie, Yuna, Rikku, Paine, Cifer, Rai, Fuu and Vivi all hail from different original worlds in the KH universe.

 

[blksabbath74]

This made me think of an interesting spinoff game they could do...

In KH1, it was alluded that while Sora, Donald and Goofy were off adventuring in the Gummi Ship, that Leon, Yuffie and Aerith were their own Trinity of adventurers, nailing down their own side of the investigation into the Heartless threat, with Cid as the go-between. Every time you met up with them, it seemed like they had found some new information to share, which complimented your own.

It would be interesting to see a game that used them as the primary characters and chronicled those adventures, and possibily used several FF worlds...

 

[Solo]

That game isn't really likely to happen, though. KH games will always be about Sora and the people he has close ties with (such as Roxas and Ventus), and while the FF gang isn't completely disconnected from him, they aren't as closely connected with him either. I can even argue that even Mickey, Donald, and Goofy won't get a spin-off KH game that focuses solely on them.

Besides, while an interim adventure sounds pretty fun, I also don't see the necessity of such game. After all, everything that Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, and Cid found out throughout their alluded little adventure had all been shared with Sora by the time they met again in Hollow Bastion, so there probably won't be anything new that we haven't heard of before.

 

[blksabbath74]

That game isn't really likely to happen, though. KH games will always be about Sora and the people he has close ties with (such as Roxas and Ventus), and while the FF gang isn't completely disconnected from him, they aren't as closely connected with him either. I can even argue that even Mickey, Donald, and Goofy won't get a spin-off KH game that focuses solely on them.

Besides, while an interim adventure sounds pretty fun, I also don't see the necessity of such game. After all, everything that Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, and Cid found out throughout their alluded little adventure had all been shared with Sora by the time they met again in Hollow Bastion, so there probably won't be anything new that we haven't heard of before.

No, that wouldn't be a main title, but a portable game maybe...

I agree it will never happen, but...