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Do you forgive him?



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blueheart

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Something you seem to be forgetting: intention. Riku didn't mean to do bad things, but after listening to Maleficent and Ansem's enticing words, in his mind, he was doing the right thing. They made him think Sora didn't care about him and Kairi anymore. They made him they that Sora stole the Keyblade from him. They made him think that he was just off galavanting across the worlds, fooling around with his new best friends, regardless of everything that had been happening.

By your logic, Robin Hood was wrong for stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, because he stole, and stealing is bad, even if the people were living a life of oppression and poverty while Prince John slept in the comfort of his own castle with everything he'd ever wanted.

-had just finished watching 1973 Disney Robin Hood-


That does clear it up a bit. But still, he killed the people on the island and kidnapped other people.
It's messed up that he wanted to sacrifice a little boy.


I'm just not understanding this.
 
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Relix

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Riku was a victim of three things in my honest opinion: the darkness, those who reside in the darkness (Ansem SoD and Mallie), and douchebaggery.
 

blueheart

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I always thought Riku didn't know he destroyed the islands, but in Recoded they showed him walking around like it was nothing. What does that mean?
 

localorange

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I always thought Riku didn't know he destroyed the islands, but in Recoded they showed him walking around like it was nothing. What does that mean?

Re: Coded takes place after KH2. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure you're dealing with a data version of Riku the entire time. The Riku you see in Re:Coded is not the real Riku.

And I am in the firm belief that Riku wasn't truly, and fully aware that he destroyed the islands until Zexion points it out to him in Reverse/Rebirth. I strongly suggest you watch a Reverse/Rebirth walkthrough from Riku's visit to Destiny Islands up to the end.

I understand Riku is a bit hard to stomach at first. I was pretty much the same way. The Riku from KH1 up to maybe halfway through COM: Reverse/Rebirth is abrasive, cocky, and incredibly bullheaded. From the last quarter of Reverse/Rebirth, through the cutscenes you see of him in Days, and KH2, you see Riku maturing and making up for the massive mistake he made.

That being said, I do forgive Riku for what he did, because he was 1)Is aware of the full consequences of his actions, 2)Feels truly guilty for what he did, 3) Went to hell and back to make up for what he did so he could face Sora and Kairi with a clear conscience on his mind, and have hope that Kairi and Sora will forgive him for what he did (especially Sora).
 

Ikkin

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What makes someone a bad person then if doing bad things isn't?

If Ansem or Xemnas wanted to change, would you forgive them?


And some things are unforgivable, even if the person wanted to change. It depends on what they did.

In my mind, the only people who are unforgivable are those who are permanently incapable of remorse. So, for example:

- I can forgive Ansem the Wise, despite the completely awful things he did to Roxas (kidnapping, brainwashing, forceful reintegration into Sora) and Namine (dehumanizing language, treating her like a tool) to get revenge on someone else entirely, because he felt remorse when he realized the true extent of his actions.
- I could forgive Xemnas, if he regained his heart and felt remorse over the terrible things he did to Roxas, Axel, Xion, and the worlds in general.
- I probably couldn't forgive Ansem Seeker of Darkness, because he's a creature of pure darkness and is likely incapable of remorse by his very nature (though I could forgive a villain who did the same thing if he felt remorse about what he did and worked to make up for it).
- I couldn't forgive Master Xehanort, because someone who so clearly enjoys making others suffer is highly unlikely to ever feel remorse for doing exactly that, and he doesn't even have any kind of metaphysical excuse for it.

I'm pretty firmly of the mind that who a person is is much more important than who a person was -- I don't see much of a point in withholding forgiveness if a person has legitimately changed (though I do see a point in suspicion in real life where one doesn't have the omniscient view one gets of fictional characters).
 

Relix

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Re: Coded takes place after KH2. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure you're dealing with a data version of Riku the entire time. The Riku you see in Re:Coded is not the real Riku.

And I am in the firm belief that Riku wasn't truly, and fully aware that he destroyed the islands until Zexion points it out to him in Reverse/Rebirth. I strongly suggest you watch a Reverse/Rebirth walkthrough from Riku's visit to Destiny Islands up to the end.

I understand Riku is a bit hard to stomach at first. I was pretty much the same way. The Riku from KH1 up to maybe halfway through COM: Reverse/Rebirth is abrasive, cocky, and incredibly bullheaded. From the last quarter of Reverse/Rebirth, through the cutscenes you see of him in Days, and KH2, you see Riku maturing and making up for the massive mistake he made.

That being said, I do forgive Riku for what he did, because he was 1)Is aware of the full consequences of his actions, 2)Feels truly guilty for what he did, 3) Went to hell and back to make up for what he did so he could face Sora and Kairi with a clear conscience on his mind, and have hope that Kairi and Sora will forgive him for what he did (especially Sora).

In fact, in Re:Coded there is a scene from one of the real Riku's memory (the one where he is walking around the destroyed Destiny Islands and he smiles when Ansem SoD appears and opens a Corridor of Darkness for him). Riku was aware he destroyed his home. What he wasn't aware of was how much he really cared for his home. Hence his words in Reverse/Rebirth, "I never thought I'd miss the island winds so much. There was a time I couldn't wait to get off this rock." So yeah, Riku does know he destroyed the islands. He just thought it would be necessary to do so to get off of it. And that scene from Re:coded could suggest that Ansem SoD had a hand in making him think it wasn't such a bad idea.
 

SoraKing3

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I forgive Riku, because I admit if I were put in his position I probably would've done the same things he did.
He is remorseful for his actions, so I do think he deserve forgiveness.
 
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Oracle Spockanort

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That does clear it up a bit. But still, he killed the people on the island and kidnapped other people.
It's messed up that he wanted to sacrifice a little boy.


I'm just not understanding this.

Riku didn't kill anybody. Being taken by the Darkness and being killed is sorta different. But that is besides the point. He didn't know that he was going to doom his friends and family and his own world to Darkness when he unintentionally called the Darkness and opened the door to the world's heart. All he wanted was to be free from his tiny world.

And Riku was a little boy just like Sora. Unless you are talking about Ansem: Seeker of Darkness, then I can explain that he was a Heartless. His only intentions were to fill the worlds and himself with Darkness, and Riku was just pawn in that goal. Master Xehanort had no qualms about splitting Ven's heart, so it doesn't seem too farfetched Xehanort's Heartless would do the same.

Doesn't make it right, but in the world of KH, it would appear age doesn't really matter when it comes to your ability to fight, think, and have strength of heart.

Riku is forgivable because he didn't do anything intentionally. He was deluded by jealousy and was screwed over by the villains of KH.

The one you need to be pointing fingers at is Xehanort.
 
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1+1=FISHXD

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THE POWER OF LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats how he was forgivin by most of the people here and in kingdom hearts............
 

impart

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He was manipulated my maleficent. So, yea I forgive him, people seem to be extremely gullible in the KH series. Besides, in the end he does his best to save everyone. I think it sort of makes up for it when you seal yourself in with a bunch of heartless to save your friends, even though you know you may never get to see them again
 

localorange

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He was manipulated my maleficent. So, yea I forgive him, people seem to be extremely gullible in the KH series. Besides, in the end he does his best to save everyone. I think it sort of makes up for it when you seal yourself in with a bunch of heartless to save your friends, even though you know you may never get to see them again

And then proceed to go undercover as a nobody to make sure that your friend has a peaceful sleep while his memories are restored - and in the process, is forced to confront the darkness by immersing yourself in it again, lol.

And I definitely agree with you about KH characters being gullible.
 

Maxyli138

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THE POWER OF LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats how he was forgivin by most of the people here and in kingdom hearts............

Friendship would be more accurate in the Kingdom Hearts world. According to Axel, loving someone is different from being friends with someone. But of course Riku's friends would forgive him because he's a part of their hearts.
 

Radar

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The way I see it, yes. Riku can be forgiven.

He stayed on the other side of the DtD with Mickey. Traveled on his own, walking his own path (way to dawn) He chose not to sleep and help out Sora during his sleep. He tried to convince Xion to return to Sora, and captured Roxas as well, so Sora can wake up. Plus, he did the whole blind-fold thing, probably from feeling guilty. (btw how the hell could he see and get around with that thing.) Plus he helped out in kh2.
 

Shadow_

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From playing BBS threw KH2 I think I will forgive Riku, I think he jsut wanted a adventure and be able to say that he went to different islands.
 

Smile

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Yeah, I forgive him. The kid's been through one of the bigger hells in the series. True, he didn't go for a decade with someone else inside him messing him up like Terra did, but Riku still had to go for a year with Xehanort's Heartless threatening to take him over, constantly repeating how Darkness is grand and how Riku should embrace it and become everything he hated before. In order to make up for the things he's done, he gave up his Self and thus sentenced himself to a fate that should've meant never again returning to life as he knew it. He was to be stuck forever, wearing the face of the person he hated more than anything and that represented everything he hated about himself. Sora and Kairi could forgive him all they want, his life would've been ruined and he'd still be blaming himself for that too.

Then we have the issues that make what he did, well... not as intentionally horrible. One has to wonder if he understood what he did, truly, when he opened the door. Leon said at the start of Kingdom Hearts - he 'didn't know' what happened to Sora's Island and everyone on it. With Maleficent being Riku's source of information for everything, it's easy to see why he'd go "oh we're finally free, Sora, lolz~" without thinking about how he basically doomed everyone he ever knew. It's only around that time that we found out that the worlds taken by the Heartless are gone, which could explain part of why he did such horrible, terrible things like puppetnapping - Kairi's Heart was at stake. Sora and her were all he had left, which despite being cold, is somewhat understandable to me. Imagine your entire country went kapoot and you only had two remaining survivors left other than you. It's a whole new moral playground.

THEN we have the next issue, being that the Darkness messed him up. Compare this to temporary insanity - he wasn't quite in control of his actions, yet unlike Terra he wasn't struggling against it because he thought the good that would come out of it was reason enough. Once he returned to his senses, however, no more shenanigans. And even if he did do something bad (see, 'offing' Roxas), he was guilt-tripping over that too. So quite literally, when you look at this aspect - it wasn't his fault.

When it all comes down to it, the question is - do we forgive Riku for being humane enough, for being weak enough that his Darkness got to him - something that was well enough established to be caused by the best of intentions as well.
And, well, yeah, I do. He messed it all up but I really can't blame him for it. If only because issues of blame aside -
He suffered enough.
 
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