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Eraqus isn't getting enough hate?



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Smithee

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Of course was Eraqus acting out of a position of desperation and therefore I am also firmly of the belief that this attempted action of him (while indeed objectively spoken awful/"evil") cannot be equated with the several crimes Xehanort commits while indeed thinking clearly and just not giving a single crap about it or be used in any way to relativize those.
Unlike Xehanort, Eraqus also realized how idiotic and hurtful he had been acting soon afterwards, but any further development that could have come from this was cut short with his removal from the active story curtesy by that very same MX.

Him having those flaws certainly brings some variety to the table and there are indeed several things he could have done better, but in regards to the original OP of this thread I still think that actually comparing Eraqus to Xehanort and/or even lumping them in the same category of being "wrong" or "dangerous" goes quite too far as it overexaggerates Eraqus' flaws while simultaneously playing down and trivializing Xehanort's devious actions and mindset.



Well, it could be a case of Eraqus willingly turning a "blind eye" and wanting to see/believe there is still something good left in Xehanort and that he abandoned his obsessive ambitions.
It is implied they were rather close once. Possibly a similar situation to Sora and Riku during KH 1 with Eraqus obviously in Sora's shoes.

We do not get to see either what explanation Xehanort gives when he brings Ventus to LoD four years before BBS (and he does manage to spin quite a touching well-acted false account of what happened to Terra in-game) nor Eraqus' actual reaction to what Xehanort tells him.
In Xehanort's letter MX states that Eraqus was apparently very forgiving and in one scene Yen Sid too states "I had hoped, Xehanort, your heart would no longer lead you astray.".
It's as if both Eraqus and Yen Sid were willing to give Xehanort a second or even a third chance and now the whole KH universe is paying dearly for this benevolence.

It is odd though I agree as Eraqus practically gets two instances of Xehanort going off the deep end somewhat, first being himself scarred by a Darkness attack and the second being coming to learn that he literally broke a kid's heart apart and left him with severe mental damage.
Even if Xehanort managed to spin it as a tragical accident-sob story like he did with Terra, Eraqus as one of the big masters should be able to figure there was more behind it.



He could probably have saved the whole universe a lot of grief if he stopped Xehanort when he had the chance and I do think he himself knows or realizes that as he makes such a sort of comment before even turning against Ven in the first place.
Why he wouldn't go and at least try to stop Xehanort now instead of offing Ven I don't know, but that was possibly plot-demanded-stupidity as several things and situations in BBS as a whole were.

Birth By Sleep: "Forgiveness is dumb (e.g.: Eraqus inviting Master Xehanort to the Mark Of Mastery despite said scarring, and Ansem The Wise's amnesia due to losing the anti-Organization feelings that previously helped him survive the Dark Realm), and hatred is the best solution (e.g.: the Lingering Will)."

You know, for kids!
 
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Absent

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I keep forgetting that Eraqus was even a character in Kingdom Hearts. I didn't care for the set up or execution so I don't really hate or like him.
 

catcake

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I keep forgetting that Eraqus was even a character in Kingdom Hearts. I didn't care for the set up or execution so I don't really hate or like him.

This, pretty much. I do remember that my reaction to pretty much everything he ever did on screen was "wait what why", but I had bigger issues with the game than him to really care. And I kind of like the idea behind it, but like so many things with the handheld KH games, it just didn't work.
 

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The fact that he might be coming back in KH3 rubs me the wrong way somehow. Like they should have just kept him dead and that would be that.

Except that instead of going against an innocent pawn in the whole scheme if Eraqus had truly guts he would go against the actual root of the problem which is Xehanort.
It is the typical idiocy of focusing on symptoms instead of the actual cause of a problem.

True, Eraqus didn't really seem like a competent master to me anyway. He reminds me of Yen Sid, they just sit around and don't really do much.

I'd like to add, Eraqus not knowing/foreseeing something is... kinda his fault, honestly.
He's a Master, not to mention the chosen Master to lead his order. He's not in a position where ignorance can be used as an excuse.

It's like the whole shtick of Xehanort being blatantly evil: Terra is more excused in trusting him due to the fact that he was and old and renowed Master and Terra only an apprentice; Eraqus should've seen through his whole act.

Especially considering he literally scarred his face with an almighty aura of Darkness while not even denying it

Not to mention that Xehanort literally used darkness during the Mark of Mastery exam and Eraqus didn't even suspect anything.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Well, it could be a case of Eraqus willingly turning a "blind eye" and wanting to see/believe there is still something good left in Xehanort and that he abandoned his obsessive ambitions.
It is implied they were rather close once. Possibly a similar situation to Sora and Riku during KH 1 with Eraqus obviously in Sora's shoes.

Him wanting to somewhat test the former friend hoping he would turn back on the light side is an interesting spin on the whole issue, true.

I keep forgetting that Eraqus was even a character in Kingdom Hearts. I didn't care for the set up or execution so I don't really hate or like him.

The fact that he might be coming back in KH3 rubs me the wrong way somehow. Like they should have just kept him dead and that would be that.

I fuse these two together, personally-- he was a decent "sacrificial fatherly figure" trope, and I was fine with that.
I don't know... based on the KH III trailer it seems he could come back with/or he had a super duper awesome secret plan against Xehanort, and that would be yet another secret plan from a character that doesn't really need one in my opinion.
And yes, true, there's also the "sly fox" moment in BbS... I would be fine with that only implying Eraqus' last sacrifice gave Terra just enough Light to keep struggling within Xehanort and that's it.

Not to mention that Xehanort literally used darkness during the Mark of Mastery exam and Eraqus didn't even suspect anything.

And that's why I can't really buy a possible comeback of his... he was being naive.
 

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I kind of like Eraqus as a character. I can kind of see where they were going with him -- being a foil to Xehanort who is blinded by light, proving that light can be harmful too -- I just don't think they went far enough with it.

I see everyone mentioning the incident where he tried to kill Ven, but has anyone pointed out about how he's a big part of Terra's problems? The way he trained them to fight off any darkness within them didn't help Terra's growing insecurities about not being strong enough and not being good enough in Eraqus's eyes. Whether of not Eraqus realized this effect he had on Terra, Xehanort certainly did and figured it was an easy way to get him to trust him, by being supportive and offering help. I wonder if Eraqus taught him how to actually deal with his bad feelings and darkness, if Terra would've been better off.
 

redcrown

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It's impossible to hate a character voiced by Mark Hamil, he is the second coming of Christ after all. Divine powers prevent you from disliking him, your soul senses his Almighty light through his voice.
 
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Luxu

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If Darkness can corrode the heart and take over a person. Who says that Light can't do the same thing? Only Princesses of Heart would be immune to the effects of course.
 

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I'd like to add, Eraqus not knowing/foreseeing something is... kinda his fault, honestly.
He's a Master, not to mention the chosen Master to lead his order. He's not in a position where ignorance can be used as an excuse.

It's like the whole shtick of Xehanort being blatantly evil: Terra is more excused in trusting him due to the fact that he was and old and renowed Master and Terra only an apprentice; Eraqus should've seen through his whole act.

Especially considering he literally scarred his face with an almighty aura of Darkness while not even denying it

What makes it even more confoundingly mind boggling is that in canon this could not have been any extremely extended amount of time between when this happened and the event of BBS starting from the MoM of Mastery, surely Eraqueez (derp) must have known that had something to do with Xehanort.

Furthermore, the events at the MoM should have tipped him off as well.
 

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Eraqus and Xehanort really aren't that comparable at all. It's true he did try to kill Ventus (and later Terra), but it's made extremely clear through out the whole thing that wasn't something he wanted to do. Could you honestly see Xehanort shedding any tears in that situation? No. He killed someone that was like a brother to him with absolutely no sign of remorse or hesitation. However, I can sort of see why he decided to kill Ventus rather than going after Xehanort directly. Mainly because he probably thought he didn't stand a chance, especially after their first encounter. Though that's no excuse for he did anyway.
 

VoidGear.

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Eraqus can never get enough hate, but then again who cares about him enough to truly hate him?
 

Smithee

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Mainly because he probably thought he didn't stand a chance, especially after their first encounter.

Last I checked, Eraqus and MX never officially fought.

In the flashback, Eraqus just ran at him instead of using any Light powers (heavily implying Eraqus was holding back against his then-friend), while MX just used the Darkness equivalent of pepper spray for a quick escape.

And after the boss battle, MX just blindsided him after Terra already wore him down.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Last I checked, Eraqus and MX never officially fought.

In the flashback, Eraqus just ran at him instead of using any Light powers (heavily implying Eraqus was holding back against his then-friend), while MX just used the Darkness equivalent of pepper spray for a quick escape.

And after the boss battle, MX just blindsided him after Terra already wore him down.

There was nothing quick about how Xehanort leasurely walked away, also his "pepper spray" didn't do anything to Eraqus' eyes.
Eraqus literally fell down due to the strenght of the attack. Xehanort is confirmed to be the strongest Keyblade Master to ever live, after all.
 
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Luxu

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There was nothing quick about how Xehanort leasurely walked away, also his "pepper spray" didn't do anything to Eraqus' eyes.
Eraqus literally fell down due to the strenght of the attack. Xehanort is confirmed to be the strongest Keyblade Master to ever lived, after all.

Are we not going to question how Sora is going to defeat someone like that? But, back on topic...
Darkness is naturally stronger than Light, however the Light has less drawbacks than that of Darkness. But, I doubt that Xehanort knows the concept of holding back that small "pepper spray" was 100% power in a small area. Of course it would knock Eraqus down. However, why Eraqus didn't counter with "Reflect" or a light shield (Like Roxas) is to be questioned.
 

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Ok, this is something that I feel have been bugging me ever since I 1st played BBS at 2.5, ever since Terra's flashback(?) with Eraqus telling him not to leave any quarter for the darkness. Re-playing BBS at 1.5+2.5 haven't changed this bad feeling I had about Eraqus.

I'm not gonna say that I hate him, but if I was to pick a character that I hate the most: I rather pick Eraqus over Xehanort.

Reason #1: If it wasn't for Terra interfering, Eraqus would've killed Ventus without a second doubt. Why? Because Ventus wanted to learn the truth about himself. If you ask me, killing your own student for wanting to learn something they have the right to know is nothing short of being paranoid.

Reason #2: Eraqus's obsession with the light might be worse than Xehanort's obsession with the darkness. Along with that, while Ansem SOD is weak to the light (cuz of him being a Heartless), Xehanort himself doesn't deny the light. Eraqus, on the other hand, is so afraid of the darkness that he fails to see that he's controlled by his own fear. All this because of what happened in the past, between him and Xehanort. I would even go so far and say that if Eraqus was allowed to live on so would he end up doing even worse damage than Xehanort did, since Xehanort still keeps the balance in mind slightly.

Just my own thoughts (more like ranting?) about Eraqus, feel free to give your own thoughts about Eraqus.

1. From what it looked like, Eraqus was just planning to use the chains of light to lock Ventus up. Eraqus could've done that to cool Ventus off and reason why with him. I just didn't get the feeling he was going to kill him.

2. Honestly, I feel their obsession is relatively the same, or less with Eraqus. Why? It's because Xehanort thinks there has to be a kind of "balance" to begin with, and that the light is threatening to break that balance. Eraqus's main problem is his fear of the darkness because of the past, but that fear also helps to give a natural balance on how he deals with it. As a result, we have Xehanort's active arrogance over the balance of light and dark, and Eraqus's more passive " if he sees it he will act" persona. Thus, Xehanort is still more dangerous as he actively pursues it, even when there's no visible disturbance.

Are we not going to question how Sora is going to defeat someone like that? But, back on topic...
Darkness is naturally stronger than Light, however the Light has less drawbacks than that of Darkness. But, I doubt that Xehanort knows the concept of holding back that small "pepper spray" was 100% power in a small area. Of course it would knock Eraqus down. However, why Eraqus didn't counter with "Reflect" or a light shield (Like Roxas) is to be questioned.

Can you point out where it says darkness is naturally stronger then the light? I don't seem to recall seeing that. It appears the two are equal and what makes one stronger depends on whom is using it along with emotions and timing.

With the encounter between Eraqus and Xehanort, it appears Xehanort only "won" as his intent was stronger since he viewed Eraqus as just another pawn rather then a friend. Eraqus still viewed Xehanort as a friend or at least an old colleague, so he basically held back whether he was aware of it or not. We have evidence of this, as Eraqus still welcomed Xehanort back with open arms even after the incident.

If Eraqus had held onto his hate, he could've kept Xehanort away from his apprentices and basically could've prevented this fate for Ven, Aqua, and Terra all together. Though then we wouldn't have Ventus meeting Aqua and Terra, and therefore wouldn't have that friendship between them. Depends on how you look at it, you could say it was either negative or positive really. Either way, Xehanort would've planned something else eventually, though I'd imagine he'd be shocked if Eraqus turned him away.
 
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Muke

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1. From what it looked like, Eraqus was just planning to use the chains of light to lock Ventus up. Eraqus could've done that to cool Ventus off and reason why with him. I just didn't get the feeling he was going to kill him.
?!?! He literally says the X-Blade doesn't have a place in this or any world.. says he has no choice. And, you know, he yells "you must exist no more" and attacks?? Yes, attempted murder. Tried to kill him. No doubt.
 

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?!?! He literally says the X-Blade doesn't have a place in this or any world.. says he has no choice. And, you know, he yells "you must exist no more" and attacks?? Yes, attempted murder. Tried to kill him. No doubt.

I looked at the scene again, still looks like he just wanted to lock up Ventus again, just poor choice of words... but he was clearly angry and thus his wording was influenced by his emotions, so yeah. Nomura would have to confirm Eraqus's intent, as I still feel there is enough discrepancy in Eraqus's actions to be unsure. I mean, all we see is Eraqus shooting the chains of light at Ventus, which we've seen through Aqua, can be used to contain the target... not necessarily kill them. " You must exist no more" could easily have meant Eraqus intended to imprison Ventus somewhere until he could rationalize with him. It was the spur of the moment and who knows, even if he thought of killing Ven, he could've decided against it after he chained up Ven and cooled down. We'll never really know.
 

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Last I checked, Eraqus and MX never officially fought.

In the flashback, Eraqus just ran at him instead of using any Light powers (heavily implying Eraqus was holding back against his then-friend), while MX just used the Darkness equivalent of pepper spray for a quick escape.

And after the boss battle, MX just blindsided him after Terra already wore him down.

This only proves my point. Terra (someone who was confirmed weaker than Xehanort) was able to beat an angered Eraqus that fully intended to kill him. And that "pepper spray" very clearly stopped Eraqus in his tracks to point where Xehanort, who had re-approached him, was able to easily walk away without any further resistance. Lastly Eraqus himself admitted he couldn't stop him.
 

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I looked at the scene again, still looks like he just wanted to lock up Ventus again, just poor choice of words... but he was clearly angry and thus his wording was influenced by his emotions, so yeah. Nomura would have to confirm Eraqus's intent, as I still feel there is enough discrepancy in Eraqus's actions to be unsure. I mean, all we see is Eraqus shooting the chains of light at Ventus, which we've seen through Aqua, can be used to contain the target... not necessarily kill them. " You must exist no more" could easily have meant Eraqus intended to imprison Ventus somewhere until he could rationalize with him. It was the spur of the moment and who knows, even if he thought of killing Ven, he could've decided against it after he chained up Ven and cooled down. We'll never really know.
... There is nothing to confirm. He wanted to kill him. There's no reason to deny that at all. In what world does "you must exist no more!!!" mean "I'm going to lock you up to talk to you ok bby talk to you later"? Come on..

That's like saying Nomura would have to confirm that Sora wants to save people.
 

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Sorry but..poor choice of words? XD I agree that bbs was a fest of bad dialogue, but do you actually think that Eraqus would've grieved towards Terra for trying to do that to Ventus if he really had just planned to lock him up for safety?

He clearly wanted to kill him out of sheer terror just thinking about the x-blade, as Ventus was easier for him to put an end to than Xehanort or Vanitas.
 
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