Film ► Frozen killed the Disney villain

[Sonofjafar]

Prince Hans isn’t even that good of a twist villain. He just randomly becomes evil, after already having everything under control with Elsa and having Anna in the palm of his hand. Now because it’s hat movie just HAD to make Disney a sim of money that’s probably beyond numbers by now, the classic Disney Villain is going to die out in exchange for underwhelming twist villains that don’t have any time to sing a villain song or revel in their schemes because they’re too busy trying to fool the audience. Disney’s gotten it’s biggest appeal for adults from these classic baddies and this is how they are replayed. To quote Captain Hook, “giving them the best years of their lives and then casting them aside. LIKE AN OLD GLOVE!!!”

 

[Elysium]

PIXAR killed the Disney Villain. PIXAR has rarely if ever had villains the way Disney films did, and a lot of their creative people took over WDAS in the 2007-2009 area. The Disney villain was very quickly wiped away along with hand-drawn animation and Alan Menken. Every movie since Tangled has had a twist villain or villain-who's-not-really-a-villain--and nearly all PIXAR films before and after their creative takeover of WDAS are the same way.

 

[Sonofjafar]

 

[Raz]

I wish Disney would try their hand at crafting a truly iconic villain again. Hans and whatever the hell that crab is supposed to be in 'Moana' are .... not it.

 

[Soldier]

I wish Disney would try their hand at crafting a truly iconic villain again. Hans and whatever the hell that crab is supposed to be in 'Moana' are .... not it.

Oh you mean Tamatoa? he's based off of the coconut crab (Birgus latro) they're also known as palm thieves or robber crabs, and are among the largest decapods on the planet, with their massive claws being strong enough to break bone. They take the place of raccoons as the resident "trash eater" in the ecosystems where the masked bandits aren't present.

 

[MATGSY]

& Then they fuck up the classics with live action remakes where Maleficent & Cruella De Vil are misunderstood good guys. Because if there was anyone who apparently needed a face turn, it was the mass puppy skinner. -_-

 

[Kimmy1980]

Tamotoa really isn't the villain of Moana. To a degree, the true villain is Te Ka. Elsa would be the villain in Frozen right? I agree, we need a good villain that is Maleficent status. Instead of that worst version of you being the villain in a story. Some of the best all-time villains are Maleficent, Hades and Dr Facilier, aka the love child of Captain Hook and Maleficent.

 

[Sonofjafar]

Elsa was going to be the villain of Frozen but they turned the whole story around somewhere along the line into a tale where Elsa can be the good guy

 

[Elysium]

That was in an early version of the film when it was going to be hand-drawn and Menken was writing the music, Bette Midler was going to play the Snow Queen. Then the film was briefly cancelled after TP&TF was sabotaged"underperformed" because they felt fairy tale films wouldn't do well, but was revived after Tangled's success a year later, only this time as a 3D musical with the Lopezes writing the music. The take on Elsa and Anna is very Wicked-esque.

 

[WaltK]

whatever the hell that crab is supposed to be in 'Moana'

How dare you?

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Frozen didn’t kill it, though I think it is absolutely one of the turning points of traditional villains in Disney properties.

What killed it is an internal shift away from the typical villain to create sympathetic characters for audiences and also a push into the whole “3rd act” reveal.

Elysium is right that it is partially to do with Pixar. With John Lasseter’s rise into becoming the head of WDAS came a complete overhaul to Disney’s approach to storytelling and animation.

Even with Lasseter gone, we still still the carryover from his influence over the company’s development philosophy. Down the line Disney will swing back to old villain tropes because somebody at Disney is going to want to tell a story that requires a genuine villain from the start and doesn’t have a 3rd act twist lol

 

[Raz]

How dare you?

The song was bad! Especially when you think about it in the context of other villain songs. But I'm also one of those people who thinks Lin Manuel-Miranda tunes are garbage.

 

[Theme]

The song was bad! Especially when you think about it in the context of other villain songs. But I'm also one of those people who thinks Lin Manuel-Miranda tunes are garbage.

What edge!

 

[kirabook]

Mother Gothel I think is truly my favorite Disney villain. I guess up there with Ursula (even though I legit forgot her name just now)
I think you can create a truly sympathetic villain that still needs to be done in/must be stopped. I recently played a game with such a villain and I hate (love) how much I sympathize and how I'm still thinking about him even though I beat him like a month ago. I totally got his plight. Totally understood where he was coming from. Would probably do the same thing if I were in his position because it's sorta heroic in a way... except for all the death and chaos required to fulfill his goals.

That feeling of "If only things had been a little different. If only we could've come to an understanding. If only you would've let me help. But it's too late and I have to stop you." I think that's the right kind of sympathetic villain I don't think Disney has successfully done yet. Maybe they have and I'm just having a brain fart?

I saw the first Maleficent and... I dunno. I just didn't care. It wasn't really Maleficent to me, y'know? Heard similar opinions about the Cruella thing though I haven't seen it myself. Haven't seen a live action Disney movie since and I have no plans to.

In essence, they shouldn't be afraid to make a truly bad guy even if his cause is kinda sympathetic. Though I guess Black Panther was a Disney movie technically and I guess Killmonger almost fit that bill. Well, he fit the bill very well. You get his plight, but you can't let him do it and it's too bad things weren't a little different cause you'd probably be on the same side kind of thing.

 

[Raz]

What edge!

I challenge anyone to look me in the eyes and tell me with a straight face that crab song is anywhere near as interesting and dynamic as 'Poor Unfortunate Souls' or 'Gaston' or 'Be Prepared' ... the new villains just aren't serving like the old ones.

But Menken and Ashman were lightening in a bottle.

 

[Seasaltrio]

I know, right!? Hans literally set himself up to get defeated. I mean, couldn't he have just followed through with his plan and marry Anna instead of monologuing everything he was going to do and then inevitably get conquered by- true- love, and friendship...and stuff.

 

[Sonofjafar]

I know, right!? Hans literally set himself up to get defeated. I mean, couldn't he have just followed through with his plan and marry Anna instead of monologuing everything he was going to do and then inevitably get conquered by- true- love, and friendship...and stuff.

Exactly what I said when I started this thing!!!