Heartless + Nobody = Unholy New Enemy?

[Grey]

I suggested this 2 or 3 years ago. My original take on this idea was that the organization members returned to their human forms when they become whole. However lesser nobodies lack the will or strength to return to human form. So instead the lesser nobodies when they are reunited with their hearts become a monster. They're a whole being but they lack the will to be human once more and are instead a monster.

This would complete the trinity of major enemies (Heartless = Dark Enemies. Nobodies = Inbetween Enemies. These whole being monsters = Light Enemies) since whole beings/Somebodies come from the realm of light and these monsters are whole beings but not human they would be enemies from light. I consider Unversed and Dream Eaters to be secondary enemies.

Your idea about this affecting lesser Nobodies is something I wanted to get across. Clearly, Nobodies that are strong enough to retain a human form would become human, but there's nothing saying that lesser Nobodies would do the same if they were reunited with a random heart (especially if that heart wasn't liberated by the Keyblade from the darkness).

I like that these new beings would complete that trinity. I never even thought of that.

Yeah, Unversed and Dream Eaters can't really count since they're not "main game" enemies, they're conditional (spawn of Vanitas and residents of the Realm of Sleep respectively).

When I suggested this a few years ago people said I was crazy and that would be adding another enemy just for the sake of having a new enemy.

Seems as though this thread is taking that same route. People are so quick to shut ideas down here. *sigh*

Also since we seem to be debating the heart and how it affects a person's appearance. I think it's obvious the heart determines a person's appearance. Roxas got Ven's heart from the moment Roxas came into being and thus looks exactly like Ven. That's evidence enough right there.

My idea was that if heart A and body B formed a mis-matched whole being, it would retain a monster-like body, so the reason these "Wholes" (or whatever they'd be called) wouldn't gain a human-like appearance would probably be due to darkness (and/or the lack of will to become human again).

How would these new beings come into existence? I imagine it wouldn't happen naturally--else the Organization would have achieved their goal rather quickly. I think this sort of fusion would have to be forced.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Seems as though this thread is taking that same route. People are so quick to shut ideas down here. *sigh*

Well it's not as if we don't consider them.

My idea was that if heart A and body B formed a mis-matched whole being, it would retain a monster-like body, so the reason these "Wholes" (or whatever they'd be called) wouldn't gain a human-like appearance would probably be due to darkness (and/or the lack of will to become human again).

For one, the two variables being "mismatched" wouldn't have any effect on the overall result. Case in point, XH and Riku. Second, I'd still say that the closest thing that relates to this idea would be Anti-Sora; Primitive nature of the Heartless, humanoid body of the Nobodies.

How would these new beings come into existence? I imagine it wouldn't happen naturally--else the Organization would have achieved their goal rather quickly. I think this sort of fusion would have to be forced.

If that's even possible.

 

[Grey]

Well it's not as if we don't consider them.

Some do, some don't.

For one, the two variables being "mismatched" wouldn't have any effect on the overall result. Case in point, XH and Riku. Second, I'd still say that the closest thing that relates to this idea would be Anti-Sora; Primitive nature of the Heartless, humanoid body of the Nobodies.

Who is to say that mis-matched hearts and bodies couldn't produce this, though? Especially since I noted that this would theoretically occur to lesser Nobodies and Heartless, and would be a ghastly fusion rather than a natural occurrence. Riku's heart and soul (will) are nowhere near weak, and the same goes for XH. Also, Riku was a complete being that accepted a second heart of darkness inside of him. That is not the same as Nobody X and Heartless J somehow coming together to form a new dark being.

I somewhat agree on the Anti-Sora thing. It wouldn't necessarily be a being of light that takes on primitive darkness, so much as it would be a union of a dark heart and a dark body. Sort of backwards.

If that's even possible.

My hope was that members in this thread would go on the assumption that it is possible, especially considering that there isn't actually anything saying it's impossible. Nomura could easily just make it happen, which would make this "crazy" idea suddenly plausible, so why not just assume that it could be possible?

 

[KHHacker6595]

Okay, here's my little theory as to what a new main enemy in the Kingdom Hearts series would be. First of all you people need to stop saying, "we don't need a fourth or fifth enemy in the series". Why not, it adds diversity, there's tons of enemies in the Final Fantasy series of all different monster classes, why can't Kingdom Hearts be the same. So let me get on with it. My theory is that we already have Darkness and Inbetween based enemies.

We've seen Darkness used for good, but have yet to see Light used for bad. The closest thing to that would be Master Eraqus attacking Ven. For my theory, we would be focusing on the Soul in its self, rather then the soul staying with the body to give it life and becoming a Nobody. Think of it this way, if someone where killed, something we rarely see in the series, the heart and body would die, but the soul would leave the body.

If the soul had a strong of enough will, it could either manifest itself into a new whole being without a heart to define its attitude, and without a body to define its appearance. It would be working from the basis of memory, we believe memory is within the heart, but if the soul retained some of that memory from the heart it could work from that and become its own being. I'd call them the Unholy or Rebirths, or something along those lines.

 

[JustSnilloc]

I think this sort of fusion would have to be forced.

If that's even possible.

I'm picturing a Darkside, and a Twilight Thorn doing the fusion dance... just saying >.>

 

[Nayru's Love]

Who is to say that mis-matched hearts and bodies couldn't produce this, though? Especially since I noted that this would theoretically occur to lesser Nobodies and Heartless, and would be a ghastly fusion rather than a natural occurrence. Riku's heart and soul (will) are nowhere near weak, and the same goes for XH.

I can't imagine the theoretical fusion would be that bad. If anything, it would look like a Nobody with a darkness aura.

Also, Riku was a complete being that accepted a second heart of darkness inside of him. That is not the same as Nobody X and Heartless J somehow coming together to form a new dark being.

Different means, same results. XH was a heart that took over Riku's body and kicked out his heart.

I somewhat agree on the Anti-Sora thing. It wouldn't necessarily be a being of light that takes on primitive darkness, so much as it would be a union of a dark heart and a dark body. Sort of backwards.

We can't really say for sure what exactly Anti-Sora is, given that he's had very little information given about him. Based on what we can observe, he acts like a Heartless, he has the humanoid body of a Nobody, he can't kill enemies, Sora becomes him when he overuses his powers, and he has no keyblade.

My hope was that members in this thread would go on the assumption that it is possible, especially considering that there isn't actually anything saying it's impossible. Nomura could easily just make it happen, which would make this "crazy" idea suddenly plausible, so why not just assume that it could be possible?

If you want to get technical, you could say it's a matter of interpretation of the rules of the series. Yes, Nomura could easily pull that card, but that doesn't mean people won't interpret that as a possible retcon.

Okay, here's my little theory as to what a new main enemy in the Kingdom Hearts series would be. First of all you people need to stop saying, "we don't need a fourth or fifth enemy in the series". Why not, it adds diversity, there's tons of enemies in the Final Fantasy series of all different monster classes, why can't Kingdom Hearts be the same.

That's not really what the debate is about, from what I can tell.

We've seen Darkness used for good, but have yet to see Light used for bad. The closest thing to that would be Master Eraqus attacking Ven. For my theory, we would be focusing on the Soul in its self, rather then the soul staying with the body to give it life and becoming a Nobody. Think of it this way, if someone where killed, something we rarely see in the series, the heart and body would die, but the soul would leave the body.

If the soul had a strong of enough will, it could either manifest itself into a new whole being without a heart to define its attitude, and without a body to define its appearance. It would be working from the basis of memory, we believe memory is within the heart, but if the soul retained some of that memory from the heart it could work from that and become its own being. I'd call them the Unholy or Rebirths, or something along those lines.

I don't think souls would have a sense of strength like that.

 

[Grey]

I can't imagine the theoretical fusion would be that bad. If anything, it would look like a Nobody with a darkness aura.

Considering it's not something that can happen naturally, I imagine it wouldn't be a pretty fusion.

Which brings me to something else. A lot of people are saying the Organization was trying to do exactly what would happen to these new enemies, by fitting their bodies with foreign, new hearts... but that hardly applies. The Organization wanted that, but it's never even stated that such a union was achievable for them. Nomura himself is saying that the Organization is back because their hearts were liberated. Any fusion sort of has to be forced--because there's nothing stating that a differing heart and body can safely and easily be merged.

Different means, same results. XH was a heart that took over Riku's body and kicked out his heart.

Riku's heart wasn't kicked out, though. It was simply put into submission and buried below the surface by Xehanort's Heartless, who only possessed him.

I don't think souls would have a sense of strength like that.

Agreed. Enemies that are simply souls just don't seem likely. Souls aren't like Hearts, which, when stolen by the darkness, will gain a body of darkness. Souls need the body, since a soul is more or less a battery for a complete being.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Riku's heart wasn't kicked out, though. It was simply put into submission and buried below the surface by Xehanort's Heartless, who only possessed him.

Riku's heart was kicked out of its own body after he tried to resist Ansem's control when he tried to kill Kairi.
Riku ordered Donald and Goofy to flee with her, then a struggle between him and Ansem occured and his heart was cast into the realm of darkness.
Why do you think he was behind the door at the end?
Ansem even confirms it when Sora confronts him at the remnants of Destiny Islands.

 

[Grey]

Riku's heart was kicked out of its own body after he tried to resist Ansem's control when he tried to kill Kairi.
Riku ordered Donald and Goofy to flee with her, then a struggle between him and Ansem occured and his heart was cast into the realm of darkness.
Why do you think he was behind the door at the end?
Ansem even confirms it when Sora confronts him at the remnants of Destiny Islands.

Oh, forgot about that part. It hardly matters, though--I'm still saying this would deal with lesser Nobodies, and would likely have a different effect if the fusion happened between a heart and a body that were already both in dark monster forms.