Hearts or Bodies??? (BBS SPOILERS)

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

In the spoiler section, me and another guy got into a debate over whether or not a heart can contain another heart. He claims that when a heart is inside another person, it's basically inside their chest, and that's it. My theory is it is inside their heart. Here's why:

First off, Sora's keyblade ability, we all know That he has it because Ven's heart is inside his. Kairi and Riku can WEILD them because they both had the Passing Ceremony (Kairi when she touched Aqua's keyblade) but sora never had that, so Ven's heart inside his own, along with his strong heart make Sora a decent Keyblade weilder.

Second, if a heart couldn't be inside another, then how does sora feel emotions and see the memories of Sora, Ven and Roxas if they were not in his heart?

Third, only one heart can be in full control of the BODY at a time. Whether a heart is invited into or invading another person's heart, the original heart is in control, unless the guest heart tries to fight. Such is the case in Terra. Master Xehanort sent his heart into Terra's heart and took control of his HEART. Had it been his body, terra would have been in control of his mind and emotions just involuntarily doing what MX was having him do. Instead, MX used the darkness in his heart to take control and even used the moves Terra had learned throughout the game to fight with.

My conclusion, is the BODY is the vessel for the heart. But a HEART can be a vessel for another heart, or a few hearts (physically in terms of the KH universe) being that the heart acts as the conscience, emotions, power, memories, and life for the body, only one can be in control at a Time, but other hearts, whether in or in touch with it can effect it.

So this is my theory, if you are against it, post your reasons, or add to it whatever you like.

 

[Shawty]

I agree with you, Roxas could feel emotions too, if Ven's heart wasn't inside Sora's heart but just in his chest *as the one you discussed with claimed* it would've been like just a heart hanging around in his body, like it has nowhere else to go. A heart within a heart should be able to feel things the other heart once felt. So yea I agree with you.

 

[MegaWallflower]

First off, Sora's keyblade ability, we all know That he has it because Ven's heart is inside his. Kairi and Riku can WEILD them because they both had the Passing Ceremony (Kairi when she touched Aqua's keyblade) but sora never had that, so Ven's heart inside his own, along with his strong heart make Sora a decent Keyblade weilder.

No, I'm pretty sure Sora can wield of his own merit. Even if Ven left, Sora could still use his keyblaed because it is his own and it chose him, over Riku. I don't know if Ven's heart helps that(except for dual-wielding, of course), but I thought Sora's ability to wield was because Sora himself could wield.

Second, if a heart couldn't be inside another, then how does sora feel emotions and see the memories of Sora, Ven and Roxas if they were not in his heart?

I see no reason why hearts being in close contact could rub off on another... but, it would make more sense if the heart was in the heart to spread the emotions. Makes me wonder about the whole sense of space, though. How do we know what a heart can hold?

Third, only one heart can be in full control of the BODY at a time. Whether a heart is invited into or invading another person's heart, the original heart is in control, unless the guest heart tries to fight. Such is the case in Terra. Master Xehanort sent his heart into Terra's heart and took control of his HEART. Had it been his body, terra would have been in control of his mind and emotions just involuntarily doing what MX was having him do. Instead, MX used the darkness in his heart to take control and even used the moves Terra had learned throughout the game to fight with.

This, I always though of as two hearts battling it out, as in face to face(or whatever terminology I should use- heart to heart, perhaps.). When Malificient mind controlled Terra, he didn't realize that until after, if I remember correctly. He didn't seem to have any conscious awareness of what he was doing, and that was heart control I believe. The Heart that controls he body is the heart that takes control- why can't there be multiple hearts, but one was beaten to submission, so to speak?

That said, I do think it's pretty possible. Maybe that is what went on in there, I don't know.

 

[Ruran]

Yes, I heart can contain a heart. It happens a bunch of times in KH and they usually out right say,if not very very strongly imply, when a heart is within a heart.

Kairi's heart was within Sora's which was why he had to unlock his to set it free.
Ven's heart is resting in Sora's, that's how it's been able to stay stable; the light in Sora's heart is serving as "life support".
When Terranort tries to get rid of Terra's heart Xehanort says "get out of my heart!" Then he stabs his self!
When Eraqus "dies" he passes his heart to Terra who later tells MX that there's someone else in his heart.
Ansem SoD lodges what's left of his heart and darkness in Riku's and that's why he could take his take his appearance at times until it was purged from him.
Anyone with golden eyes has a bit of Xehanort's heart in there's and that's how he "infects" them making them a part of him self.


In fact, I'm not sure if there's been a case of an extra heart staying by another heart's side like that. When ever a person has multiple hearts it's always pointed to Heartception.

 

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

No, I'm pretty sure Sora can wield of his own merit. Even if Ven left, Sora could still use his keyblaed because it is his own and it chose him, over Riku. I don't know if Ven's heart helps that(except for dual-wielding, of course), but I thought Sora's ability to wield was because Sora himself could wield.

no it was already confirmed that Riku and Kairi were the only ones to have the Passing ceremony where a master, or someone at the rank of master, passes the ability of wielding a keyblade to another in the future. Terra performed it on Riku, and Kairi accidently touched Aqua's keyblade which performed the ceremony. The only reason sora can weild is because when sora opened his heart to Ven's heart, Ven's heart took shelter and it gave him the ability to weild the keyblade.

 

[alexis.anagram]

no it was already confirmed that Riku and Kairi were the only ones to have the Passing ceremony where a master, or someone at the rank of master, passes the ability of wielding a keyblade to another in the future. Terra performed it on Riku, and Kairi accidently touched Aqua's keyblade which performed the ceremony. The only reason sora can weild is because when sora opened his heart to Ven's heart, Ven's heart took shelter and it gave him the ability to weild the keyblade.

The Inheritance Ceremony is not totally necessary to wield the Keyblade, nor does it guarantee Keyblade wielding capabilities; it's just a formality performed in order to acknowledge someone who has the potential to awaken a Keyblade,or which a Keyblade has indicated is a suitable candidate (for instance, when the ceremony was performed on Kairi, Aqua was not even aware of it; Aqua's Keyblade acknowledged Kairi independently). The Keyblade chooses its own master: Riku had the ceremony performed on him, but the Keyblade that was "meant" to go to him ended up choosing Sora instead (twice), because Sora's heart was stronger on both occasions. Ultimately, Riku had to awaken his own Keyblade in his own way.

That said, Nomura has stated before that Sora is an exception to the rule and that Ven had nothing to do with his ability to wield his own Keyblade or become a Hero of Light.

Nomura: In terms of the rite itself, the successee* just has to make the successor grasp their Keyblade - if this rite is performed by a Keyblade Master, and if they have suitable power, the Keyblade will choose that person as a Keyblade user, and appear before them. Terra, Ventus, all have passed this rite. Sora is the only exception.

Nomura: One of the concepts of the series is that the hero Sora isn’t some special being, but a normal boy. Sure, his heart is connected to Ventus and the others, but other than that, he’s a normal kid that could have come from anywhere, that hasn’t inherited anything from anyone.

One also has to keep in mind that Nomura has stated there are many different requirements for wielding a Keyblade. Having a Heart and the Inheritance Ceremony are two among them. Basically, though, the Keyblade appears to be an independent force which doesn't necessarily follow the rules established within the canon at all times, on all occasions.

As for the main topic, a Heart can be held within another person's Heart, or it can be held within another person's Body. It can occur either way and it's entirely contextual; Kairi's Heart was residing within Sora's for the duration of KH1, as is Ventus's post-BBS. Similarly, two Hearts can share the same physical space without being fused; I'm not entirely sure, but I think that Terra's Heart (which has Eraqus's residing inside of it) and Master Xehanort's aren't actually one Heart, but rather two separate Hearts in the same Body (Terranort). Ultimately, though, the Heart is a totally metaphysical concept which functions pretty ambiguously: which is to say, the Body may have physical capacities as a vessel, but the Heart is essentially infinite (as far as we know).

 

[Riku/Sora-Rule]

The Inheritance Ceremony is not totally necessary to wield the Keyblade, nor does it guarantee Keyblade wielding capabilities; it's just a formality performed in order to acknowledge someone who has the potential to awaken a Keyblade,or which a Keyblade has indicated is a suitable candidate (for instance, when the ceremony was performed on Kairi, Aqua was not even aware of it; Aqua's Keyblade acknowledged Kairi independently). The Keyblade chooses its own master: Riku had the ceremony performed on him, but the Keyblade that was "meant" to go to him ended up choosing Sora instead (twice), because Sora's heart was stronger on both occasions. Ultimately, Riku had to awaken his own Keyblade in his own way.

That said, Nomura has stated before that Sora is an exception to the rule and that Ven had nothing to do with his ability to wield his own Keyblade or become a Hero of Light.





One also has to keep in mind that Nomura has stated there are many different requirements for wielding a Keyblade. Having a Heart and the Inheritance Ceremony are two among them. Basically, though, the Keyblade appears to be an independent force which doesn't necessarily follow the rules established within the canon at all times, on all occasions.

As for the main topic, a Heart can be held within another person's Heart, or it can be held within another person's Body. It can occur either way and it's entirely contextual; Kairi's Heart was residing within Sora's for the duration of KH1, as is Ventus's post-BBS. Similarly, two Hearts can share the same physical space without being fused; I'm not entirely sure, but I think that Terra's Heart (which has Eraqus's residing inside of it) and Master Xehanort's aren't actually one Heart, but rather two separate Hearts in the same Body (Terranort). Ultimately, though, the Heart is a totally metaphysical concept which functions pretty ambiguously: which is to say, the Body may have physical capacities as a vessel, but the Heart is essentially infinite (as far as we know).

Well thank you for clearing that up for me lol

But no, in Terra and Xehanort's case, Xehanort took control of Terra's heart, just as Ansem SoD did to Riku in KH 1 taking over his heart took control of Terra's entire being as well as his body. The part of Blank points where Terra and Xehanort are standing face to face is essentially taking place in Terra's heart, as MX inserted his own heart into Terra's and took it over. remember when Riku fought back against Ansem SoD in KH1? He said "No! you won't use me for this!" so after Ansem SoD was allowed into Riku's heart to make him stronger, he took over and basically Riku was gone, also supported by when Sora said "You, You're not Riku"

 

[alexis.anagram]

But no, in Terra and Xehanort's case, Xehanort took control of Terra's heart, just as Ansem SoD did to Riku in KH 1 taking over his heart took control of Terra's entire being as well as his body. The part of Blank points where Terra and Xehanort are standing face to face is essentially taking place in Terra's heart, as MX inserted his own heart into Terra's and took it over. remember when Riku fought back against Ansem SoD in KH1? He said "No! you won't use me for this!" so after Ansem SoD was allowed into Riku's heart to make him stronger, he took over and basically Riku was gone, also supported by when Sora said "You, You're not Riku"

You're probably completely right about this. In that case, perhaps the Body, in fact, only has room enough for one Heart, but the Heart can encapsulate as many life energies/Hearts/whatever as is necessary provided it's strong enough? I think that's the other factor: the strength of the Heart and the person to whom it belongs.