Hopes/worries about combat

[billyzanesucks]

I've seen many threads on KHI and GameFAQs prior to KHIII's announcement debating over whether the new title should adopt the Command Deck put in place by BBS, 3D and Re:coded, or return to the Command Menu of the previous numbered titles and Days. Some argued that the Command Deck allows for much more diversity in play-style, and others have argued that the Command Menu offers greater balance and control.

Personally, I'm kind of glad to be going back to the Command Menu; I just hope they preserve some of the techniques and spells from the recent games, and don't include Reaction Commands (not like in KHII, at least). Having more advanced enemy and ally AI is a major plus for me, as are the inclusion of Flowmotion and more interaction with enemies.

Were you surprised by the change? How do you feel about it?

 

[wolfshadow]

Nomura said he was going to go back to the command menu, he said the main titles will always use it. The side stories always used different playstyles. But I also read that he is going to take parts of the other games and somehow integrate it lightly into kh3's battle system.

And i'm ok with that.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Hopefully, "taking parts of the other games" means including things like Mega Flare and Meteor, and making attacks such as Sonic Blade more accessible. To be honest, I think the first game's combat system, or at least its concept, was the best overall. You didn't have to scroll through the menu most of the time (BBS, Re:coded, 3D) or change into a form to use special attacks (KHII, Days). Its one major weakness was its lack of abilities. There were other problems with the game, like a few broken abilities and poor physics, but the setup itself is brilliant to me.

 

[Nyangoro]

I'd actually prefer something closer to KH2, as I really don't have a lot of problems with its basic style. It's flashy, feels good, and has a great sense of momentum. The main problem with it is that there wasn't enough actual substance to back it up. If they can add some depth/strategy to that basic engine, I think it could turn out pretty great.

 

[Decrith]

I'm afraid the character themselves might become too overpowered with all the buffs they get, like in BBS were you can easily beat the game in Critical Mode, or in KH2 were you can just spam x in fights and still end up winning.

 

[wolfshadow]

I think having a cooldown system for rapidly pressing x to attack. Like after you land a perfect combo, you have to let Sora 'cooldown' to do another string of combos.

 

[Shogo-Kun]

I'd personally love to see the Command Deck back in KHIII, but since the Command Menu is the "main engine" , I suppose that's a pipe dream. And I'd like to see an improved Flowmotion. From what I've seen of gameplay from Dream Drop Distance, it looks like you could just spam it whenever. I think giving a limit to it, like a Flowmotion Gauge, would give it more strategy.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Another thing they could do to limit combos: make enemies flinch less. I mean, I don't want them to be completely unaffected by combo attacks like in 3D, but they certainly shouldn't be the virtual punching bags they were in KHII. I think combos should generally start out somewhat weak, but become stronger and knock back enemies more as you build up. FFXV-style weapon-switching (or keychain-switching, changing the keyblade into a whip, etc.) and/or Days' combo-branching would add some diversity to combos.

I'd personally love to see the Command Deck back in KHIII, but since the Command Menu is the "main engine" , I suppose that's a pipe dream. And I'd like to see an improved Flowmotion. From what I've seen of gameplay from Dream Drop Distance, it looks like you could just spam it whenever. I think giving a limit to it, like a Flowmotion Gauge, would give it more strategy.

Yeah, I've also thought they should add some kind of gauge for Flowmo. I was thinking that chaining more Flowmotion actions together without attacking or jumping could fill up the gauge, increasing your speed. The strength of the attack performed would depend on your current speed.

Well, at least they seem to be expanding more on Flowmotion, with riding enemies and such.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I'll be honest and say that I especially don't like the system from KH II. It's practically just tap x, tap x, tap x, perform a finisher, => repeat with the occassional reaction command or Reflect use stuffed in-between. You practically just whack around with the Keyblade until everything is dead with Magic either useless or ineffective and true special attacks like Sonic blade, Ragnarok or other fancy stuff we can so beautifully equip as we desire with the commands is restricted just to the overpowered, stupid drive forms.

You do not even have true combos that you can pull off by making an input of a different button sequence like i.e. you can do in The Force Unleashed or LoTR: Return of the King.

I know Nomura said that this one would be the core system, but I certainly hope that he and his team tweak it enough so it won't be the same boring stuff it was in KH II anymore.

Just like Shogo-Kun, I personally would certainly love to see a new system that orients itself more on the BBS/DDD/Re: Coded-system than on the KH II one while still incorporating elements from both.

 

[Santiago]

I worry that it will be too easy to just mash X to win and that drive forms might make the game too easy. I hope they give more purpose to guarding attacks to encourage people to not play so offensively, and that they give magic more of a practical use. I rarely used magic in KHII, the only two exceptions being Cure and Reflect. I also hope for a Critical mode.

 

[rls246]

I think it is going to be harder than just mash x. Just from the trailer there isn't going to be a few heartless. There is going to be hundreds of heartless and you see sora having to run up a wall to get on top. So I think there is wall running, heartless riding to move forward in the game. Then in the second kingdom hearts the a action button will that return or flowmotion in dream drop distance will that return in some form. Will the dream eaters make a appearance. Will donald and goofy have a link attack with sora.

 

[Nazo]

I'd actually prefer something closer to KH2, as I really don't have a lot of problems with its basic style. It's flashy, feels good, and has a great sense of momentum. The main problem with it is that there wasn't enough actual substance to back it up. If they can add some depth/strategy to that basic engine, I think it could turn out pretty great.

This pretty much sums up my opinion as well. I LOVED the flow and feel of KH2, but it felt too simple. Add some challenge/depth (Critical Mode doesn't count) to it and it would be excellent.

 

[Wehrmacht]

I'll be honest and say that I especially don't like the system from KH II. It's practically just tap x, tap x, tap x, perform a finisher, => repeat with the occassional reaction command or Reflect use stuffed in-between. You practically just whack around with the Keyblade until everything is dead with Magic either useless or ineffective

BBS didn't feel any different from that to me, so I don't really see the distinction. Maybe magic was slightly more useful in BBS but the game's combat system was as button-mashy as ever, just like KH has always been.

I think it is going to be harder than just mash x. Just from the trailer there isn't going to be a few heartless. There is going to be hundreds of heartless and you see sora having to run up a wall to get on top. So I think there is wall running, heartless riding to move forward in the game. Then in the second kingdom hearts the a action button will that return or flowmotion in dream drop distance will that return in some form. Will the dream eaters make a appearance. Will donald and goofy have a link attack with sora.

That was just a teaser conceptual trailer they put together to give us a rough idea of what the game looks like. trying to read too much into it isn't wise.

 

[Vanitas666]

I'd actually prefer something closer to KH2, as I really don't have a lot of problems with its basic style. It's flashy, feels good, and has a great sense of momentum. The main problem with it is that there wasn't enough actual substance to back it up. If they can add some depth/strategy to that basic engine, I think it could turn out pretty great.

If the fighting feels more like KH II then the other games I really hope that it's a lot easier to dodge (which is a necessary ability) while attacking. KH II's gameplay felt very unfair to me mainly because you got in to all these flashy moves that where to long and you couldn't interrupt them and dodge away, also enemies could suddenly attack you when you attack them and they should be stunned by your attacks.
I think BBS did a really good work with this and I think KH III will adopt that well unless they go the completely over the top way like 3D

 

[Gram]

I personally would certainly love to see a new system that orients itself more on the BBS/DDD/Re: Coded-system than on the KH II one while still incorporating elements from both.

Pretty much what I want out of it's combat. I've grown tired of the commands and I dislike flowmotion however I'd still like a new system with bits of each brought together with the command menu as the 'core'.

 

[billyzanesucks]

BBS didn't feel any different from that to me, so I don't really see the distinction. Maybe magic was slightly more useful in BBS but the game's combat system was as button-mashy as ever, just like KH has always been.

BBS certainly had lots of button-mashing, but you needed to press several buttons; X to attack, Square to roll/block, Triangle to activate a Command, and the D-Pad to scroll through the Deck. It also gave you access to a wider variety of techniques, so in some ways, BBS was much less repetitive (although it was moreso in other areas).

 

[Nayru's Love]

KH2's gameplay flaw was that it lacked variety in combat; all you ever needed to do was attack, reaction command, and the occasional Curaga/Reflega. I'm not sure why they even bothered adding in the other spells.

BBS was a step up; the Command Deck gave us variety in what techniques to execute, not to mention that it helped make each character feel unique. Unfortunately, there were very few battles where such variety was necessary; in a way, BBS was the same as KH2 in that you were just mashing commands.

Ironically, despite being the very first game in the series, I think that KH1 had it right. Sometimes you couldn't just mash spells because certain enemies had certain weaknesses. Furthermore, magic was limited, so it's not like you could regenerate it simply by waiting it out. As opposed to most of the other titles in the series, progressing through KH1 required a certain degree of strategy. If KH3's gameplay had to draw inspiration from its preceding games, I'm hoping that it'll draw the most from KH1.

 

[billyzanesucks]

Ironically, despite being the very first game in the series, I think that KH1 had it right. Sometimes you couldn't just mash spells because certain enemies had certain weaknesses. Furthermore, magic was limited, so it's not like you could regenerate it simply by waiting it out. As opposed to most of the other titles in the series, progressing through KH1 required a certain degree of strategy. If KH3's gameplay had to draw inspiration from its preceding games, I'm hoping that it'll draw the most from KH1.

Yeah, the Command Deck's automatic reloading could make boss fights very tedious. I like working to build up MP. It gives more purpose to ordinary attacks and is much more enjoyable than rolling around for ten seconds.

Also, bump.

 

[Gram]

Ironically, despite being the very first game in the series, I think that KH1 had it right. Sometimes you couldn't just mash spells because certain enemies had certain weaknesses. Furthermore, magic was limited, so it's not like you could regenerate it simply by waiting it out. As opposed to most of the other titles in the series, progressing through KH1 required a certain degree of strategy. If KH3's gameplay had to draw inspiration from its preceding games, I'm hoping that it'll draw the most from KH1.

I couldn't agree more. It done things that actually made it worth your while exploiting weaknesses and such as well with it's Tech Points. And magic wasn't just a waiting game, when you ran out of mp and ethers the only way to get it back up was to attack.

That's been my biggest worry since it was announced, of the two numbered titles kh1 is the one I hope it takes most from.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

BBS didn't feel any different from that to me, so I don't really see the distinction. Maybe magic was slightly more useful in BBS but the game's combat system was as button-mashy as ever, just like KH has always been.

The main difference with BBS is that you have way more variety and options than you ever had with anything KH 2 can offer. Just chaining Keyblade attacks together in BBS was also possible, but unlike KH 2 it wasn't always the most effective thing to use and you are also discouraged from doing so by having commands, shotlocks, Command styles etc. at your disposal. Unlike KH1 or 2, you also do not have to worry about running out of MP since each command has its own cooldown

Pretty much what I want out of it's combat. I've grown tired of the commands and I dislike flowmotion however I'd still like a new system with bits of each brought together with the command menu as the 'core'.

That the command menu will be the 'core' of the new system has been (unfortunately for command deck lovers like me) already confirmed by Nomura, so the main concern for me is definitely that he incorporates enough stuff from BBS and DDD that KH III's system does not become a rehash of the stupid system in KH 2.
Giving Sora a new outfit and with that getting rid of the drive forms is actually a neat step into the right direction.
One thing they definitely should bring back from the system of KH 1 are the Tech points, those gave quite an incentive to fight more tactical.

BBS certainly had lots of button-mashing, but you needed to press several buttons; X to attack, Square to roll/block, Triangle to activate a Command, and the D-Pad to scroll through the Deck. It also gave you access to a wider variety of techniques, so in some ways, BBS was much less repetitive (although it was moreso in other areas).

Exactly this, BBS provides a much bigger variety.