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ddta1177

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I've been watching playthroughs on youtube and a saw a cutscene shown afetr the end of Symphony of Sorcery where Mckey and Xehanort discuss Xehanort. They talked about how in order to go back in time he had to have been there in the first place and they also talked about Ansem SoD possesing Riku's body and that's how he was able to do it or something like that and it was just really confusing so can anyone explain this cutscene to me and how Kingdom Hearts time travel works. One more thing why did Xehanort revive after Rku defeated Young Xehanort.Thanks
 

Memory Master

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Re: How Time Travel Works

Okay this is how it works, and remember there are still some things we don't understand which will probably be explained in KH3.

Old Master Xehanort uses Vanitas (Heart of pure darkness) and Ventus (Heart of pure light) to try and forge the X-Blade. This ends up as a failure because MX was overly hasty and didn't use the proper method to forge a true X-Blade. (The Proper method to forge a true X-Blade is to use 13 darknesses and 7 lights since the original X-Blade was shattered into 7 pieces of light and 13 pieces of darkness during the Keyblade War).

Realizing he was too hasty MX becomes a heartless and a nobody (Xehanort's Heartless and Xemnas). XH and Xemnas are to carry out MX's back up plan to forge the X-Blade by using the proper method this time. XH uses Maleficent to gather the Princesses of Heart in order to open the Door to Darkness and weaken the Realm of Light (So the worlds wont be as protected once the second Keyblade War begins). Meanwhile Xemnas creates the first Organization XIII to turn them into 13 versions of himself, the XIII Darknesses. However Xemnas and XH knew some members of the Organization might fail to work as vessels for Xehanort.

Now this is where time travel comes in. To ensure they would have XIII Darknesses even if Organization XIII failed, XH before he showed up on Destiny Islands went back in time to where Young Xehanort was and passed the power to time travel on to him. Young Xehanort then went foreward in time to collect different versions of Xehanort to complete the XIII Darknesses as a back up plan in case Organization XIII failed.

Now that we covered why Xehanort used time travel to accomplish his plan, i'll explain the mechanics behind it.

Remember before XH took Riku's body he was just an existence of the heart inside of that brown robe. To time travel you have to cast off your body and become an existence of the heart. Since this is what XH was at that time he was able to time travel. Now you can only time travel one way (Either going backwards into the past or foreward into the future). And you can only go to periods of time where you yourself exist. (In other words Xehanort cannot travel back to anytime before he existed or any time after he existed.)

So XH went into the past to the point where Young Master Xehanort was still living on Destiny Islands. He explained all about his future self's plans. XH then passed the power to time travel to Young Master Xehanort. XH returned to the present and appeared before Sora on Destiny Islands in KH1 and then of course took over Riku later in the game to get a physical body again. Young Master Xehanort used his time traveling powers to travel foreward into the future and collect different versions of himself through out time until he arrived at the time of KH3D where finally the XIII Darknesses are nearly complete.

Now the forms of Xehanort from the past have to return to their proper place in time and obey the flow of time until the time when they will be needed to forge the true X-Blade when they clash with the 7 Guardians of Light in KH3. Since all of the past forms of Xehanort came in contact with Young Master Xehanort then its likely all the forms now have the power to travel into the future when MX will need them to forge the True X-Blade in KH3.

So to sum it up:

To time travel you must first shed off your body and become an existence only of the heart. Then you can only travel one way (Backwards into the past or forwards into the future). You can only go to a point in time where you have existed. You cannot change the events of any point in time you go to. Eventually you must return to your proper place in time.

EDIT:

Forgot about your last question. The Old Master Xehanort we see in KH3D is the revived present version of Xehanort after Xemnas and XH were destroyed. Old MX was in the processes of reforming into his complete self before the fight between Young Xehanort and Riku began, it just stopped when Mickey used Stopga. After the spell wears off we see MX fully restored as a whole being again.

The Old MX in KH3D is the current Xehanort. It is confirmed by MX that Terra is also revived so at some point the two became seperate. Terra still has a fragment of MX's heart inside of him so he is still one of the XIII Darknesses.
 

iLeen

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Re: How Time Travel Works

In order to time travel:
1. You need to discard your body (ultimately just becoming a heart).
2. In order to go to a certain place at a certain time, you need to have been there before.
3. You can only move in one direction with the flow of time.

So Ansem SoD, being only a heart since he is just a Heartless, has the ability to time travel. He went to Destiny Islands before it was swallowed by darkness (as seen early on in KH when he speaks to Sora about "worlds being tied to darkness" and stuff), therefore, he existed during that "certain time in a certain place."

Ansem SoD is able to be where Sora and Riku are at during the beginning of their MoM exam because they started off on Destiny Islands before it was swallowed by darkness, which also when Ansem SoD existed there and then as well in the real world, and since he is essentially one of many forms of Xehanort, all other forms of Xehanort are able to join in on the dream crusade in following and harassing Sora and Riku as they travel around different worlds in sleep.

I'm still not clear on how Xehanort revived or whether he revived at all. I've read a few different translations, and some seem to contradict others, so I'm just going to wait until the US version comes out:3

Edit: Oh, Memory Master has a better and thorough explanation. You should just ignore mine and read Memory's XD
 

Chaser

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Please be careful of spoilers in thread titles. Thank you :)
 

8298906

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Re: How Time Travel Works

So to sum it up:

To time travel you must first shed off your body and become an existence only of the heart. Then you can only travel one way (Backwards into the past or forwards into the future). You can only go to a point in time where you have existed. You cannot change the events of any point in time you go to. Eventually you must return to your proper place in time.

So the whole time travel method was brought so we can fight all the Xahenorts (Master Xahenort, Ansem SoD, Xemnas ect.) in the final game of the Xahenort saga without TOO complex explanation as to why they're able to be together at the same time. But at the same time not twiking or kapoing up the stories of the previous games wile using the time travel method.
 

Memory Master

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Re: How Time Travel Works

So the whole time travel method was brought so we can fight all the Xahenorts (Master Xahenort, Ansem SoD, Xemnas ect.) in the final game of the Xahenort saga without TOO complex explanation as to why they're able to be together at the same time. But at the same time not twiking or kapoing up the stories of the previous games wile using the time travel method.

Pretty much, what better way to end the Xehanort saga than to literally fight everyone of his forms in the final battle.

Although I can think of some far less complicated ways they could have done that without getting time travel involved.

1. Make YMX, MX's first nobody created when he took over Terra in BBS. YMX eventually learns how to use darkness to gain the power of sleep. He caused some worlds to fall into sleep, thus creating the realm of sleep. YMX takes fragments of XH and Xemnas' existences and attempts to restore their individual existences in the realm of sleep. (Just like Joshua was doing with Neku and the others. Hell they could even have it to where YMX caused Neku and the others to be destroyed just so he could lure Joshua to them realm of sleep and use Joshua's attempt at restoring Neku and the others' existence as a test to see if it was really possibly before he tried to restore XH and Xemnas' individual existences.)

Meanwhile the majority of XH and Xemnas that was destroyed in KH1 and KH2 came together to reform MX. Thus allowing XH and Xemnas to exist alongside MX.

2. Just say Xemnas created a couple of replicas and placed fragments of his heart in them, causing the replicas to become replicas of XH and Xemnas. (Which would give the replica program more importance)

There were other ways they could have done this without using time travel, and i'm just saying I wouldn't have chosen time travel if I was the one making KH's story. But hey, maybe in KH3 there will be something that makes me really like the whole time travel thing just like KH3D made me like the concept of the X-Blade when I learned XH and Xemnas' actions were all part of a back up plan to forge a true X-Blade.
 

8298906

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Re: How Time Travel Works

Pretty much, what better way to end the Xehanort saga than to literally fight everyone of his forms in the final battle.

Although I can think of some far less complicated ways they could have done that without getting time travel involved.

1. Make YMX, MX's first nobody created when he took over Terra in BBS. YMX eventually learns how to use darkness to gain the power of sleep. He caused some worlds to fall into sleep, thus creating the realm of sleep. YMX takes fragments of XH and Xemnas' existences and attempts to restore their individual existences in the realm of sleep. (Just like Joshua was doing with Neku and the others. Hell they could even have it to where YMX caused Neku and the others to be destroyed just so he could lure Joshua to them realm of sleep and use Joshua's attempt at restoring Neku and the others' existence as a test to see if it was really possibly before he tried to restore XH and Xemnas' individual existences.)

Meanwhile the majority of XH and Xemnas that was destroyed in KH1 and KH2 came together to reform MX. Thus allowing XH and Xemnas to exist alongside MX.

I like this but it has some holes
1. A heartless must be produced when a Nobody is created. So YX being a Nobody wouldn't really work cause MX didn't turn into a Nobody he just went into Terra

2.
YMX takes fragments of XH and Xemnas' existences and attempts to restore their individual existences in the realm of sleep
Would this mean that the heroes must go the the RoS to fight them cause things in the RoS can't escape the RoS without being unlock by the keyblade

2. Just say Xemnas created a couple of replicas and placed fragments of his heart in them, causing the replicas to become replicas of XH and Xemnas. (Which would give the replica program more importance)
I'm glad they didn't go this route. Like I wanna fight a bunch of clones of the past big badies
 

Memory Master

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Re: How Time Travel Works

I like this but it has some holes
1. A heartless must be produced when a Nobody is created. So YX being a Nobody wouldn't really work cause MX didn't turn into a Nobody he just went into Terra

The reason I suggest that a good alternative would have been to make YMX, MX's first nobody, is because in a interview I believe when Nomura was asked if MX created a heartless and nobody when he took over Terra, I think Nomura said he didn't create a heartless (Obviously) but he couldn't say whether he created a nobody or not. So it opens up the possibility.

(Oh yeah I would have also said that MX left a fragment of his heart with YMX. That fragment contained memories of only his youth so that is why YMX takes on the younger appearance, and it also contained memories with information on his back up plan to create the XIII Darknesses and stuff)

I still think MX may have created a nobody when he took over Terra and that nobody may be one of the XIII Darknesses in the actual game.

2. Would this mean that the heroes must go the the RoS to fight them cause things in the RoS can't escape the RoS without being unlock by the keyblade

I thought that only applied to things that were asleep? Joshua and the other TWEWY characters weren't asleep, they were like Sora and Riku, real people who entered the dream worlds, instead of dream versions of real people like the Disney characters in the realm of sleep. Xemnas and XH wouldn't have been asleep, so they wouldn't need awakening. But even if they did for some reason, both YMX and MX have Keyblades so they could easily fix that problem.

I'm glad they didn't go this route. Like I wanna fight a bunch of clones of the past big badies

I agree, I was just putting it up as a suggestion. The idea of those two just being replicas is too simple in my opinion.
 

Absolute

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If they can make time travel work in the story, that's great. However, I'd rather they never used it. MX making clones of himself using the replica program would have been a better idea to have multiple Xehanorts.
 

iLeen

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If they can make time travel work in the story, that's great. However, I'd rather they never used it. MX making clones of himself using the replica program would have been a better idea to have multiple Xehanorts.

But that would make things too simple, cause then Xehanort can just clone however much of himself as he wants, then we wouldn't have the Sora falling into darkness/Riku redeeming himself by saving Sora storyline:3
 

Memory Master

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XMX isn't a heart in a cloak, or does that not apply in the RoS?

Well somehow XH was able to give YMX the power to travel through time. They don't explain how though.

But since YMX came in contact with all the past versions of Xehanort, its likely he also gave them the power to time travel, so they have a way to return to the future again when MX needs them to forge the X-Blade in KH3.
 

Seighart

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Well somehow XH was able to give YMX the power to travel through time. They don't explain how though.

But since YMX came in contact with all the past versions of Xehanort, its likely he also gave them the power to time travel, so they have a way to return to the future again when MX needs them to forge the X-Blade in KH3.

If they go back to their regular times, how would that work if they were to go back to the future? If they are used to forge the X-Blade again, wouldn't that in a way "erase" their existence from THEIR time?
 

Absolute

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If they go back to their regular times, how would that work if they were to go back to the future? If they are used to forge the X-Blade again, wouldn't that in a way "erase" their existence from THEIR time?

Maybe they are taken at the point of when they are destroyed? Like, say for instance, the Ansem we see in 3D was taken at the point right when Ansem was nuked by the light in Kingdom Hearts in KHI. So him being in the future and being absorbed or however into the X-blade wouldn't ruin his past time since he was then destroyed a second later? Same with Xemnas.

As for the rest? perhaps this also works with Xigbar.
 

Seighart

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Maybe they are taken at the point of when they are destroyed? Like, say for instance, the Ansem we see in 3D was taken at the point right when Ansem was nuked by the light in Kingdom Hearts in KHI. So him being in the future and being absorbed or however into the X-blade wouldn't ruin his past time since he was then destroyed a second later? Same with Xemnas.

As for the rest? perhaps this also works with Xigbar.

That's the most logical explanation il probably get anytime soon haha
 

billyzanesucks

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If they go back to their regular times, how would that work if they were to go back to the future? If they are used to forge the X-Blade again, wouldn't that in a way "erase" their existence from THEIR time?
If they "die", I imagine they'd be sent back to their time. If their existence still continues in some form, they could stay right where they are.
 

ddta1177

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I also have another question, during the subs it says that you need a to have existed in the time you want to travel and the place too or something about being there right before it fell into darkness. And are Xigbar and Saix from the past too and were brought over by YMX or are they human and just didn't reform at Hollow Bastion.
 

Memory Master

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I also have another question, during the subs it says that you need a to have existed in the time you want to travel and the place too or something about being there right before it fell into darkness. And are Xigbar and Saix from the past too and were brought over by YMX or are they human and just didn't reform at Hollow Bastion.

They're human again, they just didn't reform at Radiant Gardens.
 
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