Huge Xemnas Theory, Including Why He didn't use a Keyblade (spoilers)

[Silverslide]

Think of it this way. If he COULD have used a keyblade, he would've, no doubt about that. Not wanting to be like MX or w/e is bullshit

What you need to do is think of a theory that kept him from using it, because that is the only way he wouldn't have.

 

[duuuf08]

No.

Roxas and Xion were zombies because they were just born. Kind of like babies, they can't do shit until they age. Ok, when Roxas LOST his keyblade when Xion took it, how come he still had emotions, besides, Xion's keyblade is fluffing fake. Explain that.

That is fluffing ridiculous. Roxas had a heart of his own, that is why he had emotions, Xion was the closest thing to human in the organization so she could have had a fake heart, or could have been emulating them.

Roxas let xion borrow his keyblade and he was near her the entire time. He could still be affected by the keyblades power. This would explain why roxas made axel feel like he had a heart. did axel have a heart? no. those three were the only ones who were friends in the organization. Isa and axel didn't count because their friendship was deteriorating throughout 358/2 days. My guess would be that axel, xion, and roxas could all feel because their friendship triggered emotions radiating from the keyblade. Since no other members were close to roxas like xion and axel were, they were unaffected. Again, this is a guess. And no: it's not "fluffing ridiculous". Xion's keyblade may be fake. But then again, Xion is fake. they both have a shot at being real. Xion didn't have a heart whatsoever, she was made up solely of memories. which is why we never say a heart fly towards the sky when she died. she turned into shards of memories and dissappeared.

 

[Hamster Lord]

So everything i just posted showed the fact i know nothing about the kingdom hearts series...haha! you are funny kid. I am bashing someone who tries their best to make everone around her feel stupid...as she says "You seriously need someone to actually say "this is how it is" for you to understand how something is? That is so pathetic. Do you not understand how "Show, Don't Tell" works? Ugh. Ugh. UGH." and she tries debunking the person who made this thread's theory because it doesn't have proof from Nomura. she later states that Roxas has a heart but doesn't need written proof because she knows he does. "I don't need Nomura to say it bluntly to know it is the truth."
I may not know Heartsem either, but how she presents herself on this forum, i don't think i want to know her. I don't need you to tell me that it's not right how i spoke about her. It's not right that she's acting like this. She needs to grow up, and so do you. If i were you, I would take your own advice of actually knowing what you're talking about before you type posts, kiddo. Hipocrits...sooo many of them.

Um. Sign's older than you. so...what. And you spelled hypocrites wrong. jussaying

 

[chasespicer056]

Think of it this way. If he COULD have used a keyblade, he would've, no doubt about that. Not wanting to be like MX or w/e is bullshit

What you need to do is think of a theory that kept him from using it, because that is the only way he wouldn't have.

Right now I honestly can't think of one based on facts we've had so far.

Thus, I've updated the theory to say that Nomura saying that was just him mind****ing with us since all Keyblade wielders thus far have had hearts.

Wait a minute...LS puts a hole in that.

Darn it. This one aspect is tough to crack.

Grrrr...No-Mu-Ra.

NOMURA! NOMURAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[duuuf08]

thanks for editing my fast typing. i apologize. Just because he/she may be older doesn't mean she's smarter or wiser. everyone has a different level of mental maturity. I called her kiddo because she acted like a kid. she needs to see what heartseam says before she starts ranting at someone who is clearly trying to tell heartseam to cut the childs play and debate without acting like a total jerk to other people's inputs. Those who have paid attention to this debate have witnessed her being hypocritical (happy?) and arrogant and i wanted to point that out. so...what?

 

[Hamster Lord]

thanks for editing my fast typing. i apologize. Just because he/she may be older doesn't mean she's smarter or wiser. everyone has a different level of mental maturity. I called her kiddo because she acted like a kid. she needs to see what heartseam says before she starts ranting at someone who is clearly trying to tell heartseam to cut the childs play and debate without acting like a total jerk to other people's inputs. Those who have paid attention to this debate have witnessed her being hypocritical (happy?) and arrogant and i wanted to point that out. so...what?

I skimmed through nearly all of these posts anyway lol

 

[Silverslide]

again, duuf you should probably just shut up

 

[chasespicer056]

Wow...I JUST realized what your symbol is Hamster Lord

And even though I saw the new Harry Potter yesterday, I didn't recognize it until now

 

[yomitchymitch]

Think of it this way. If he COULD have used a keyblade, he would've, no doubt about that. Not wanting to be like MX or w/e is bullshit

What you need to do is think of a theory that kept him from using it, because that is the only way he wouldn't have.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[duuuf08]

again, duuf you should probably just shut up

how bout no. you shoud shut the fluff up. XDD

 

[Silverslide]

how bout no. you shoud shut the fluff up. XDD

No, you should, talking about people you don't even know like that.

 

[Vani]

For all those who don't know what the hell your defending HeartSeams about:
She claims that we can conclude ourelves that Roxas has Vens heart which I totally agree with but we also have to take Nomuras Words of it only being a possibilty and not make it a fact right away.
I personally dont agree with whatever the keyblade-emotions thing is but I'm only arguing that we can't make Roxas having Vens heart a fact like HeartSeams kept saying.

 

[chasespicer056]

For all those who don't know what the hell your defending HeartSeams about:
She claims that we can conclude ourelves that Roxas has Vens heart which I totally agree with but we also have to take Nomuras Words of it only being a possibilty and not make it a fact right away.
I personally dont agree with whatever the keyblade-emotions thing is but I'm only arguing that we can't make Roxas having Vens heart a fact like HeartSeams kept saying.

I've gone against most of that aspect of the theory now. But I can't figure out why Xemnas would choose NOT to use it.

 

[yomitchymitch]

I've gone against most of that aspect of the theory now. But I can't figure out why Xemnas would choose NOT to use it.

Maybe it's not his choice?
Is it confirmed that he doesn't choose to? Not that he just simply has the ability to wield one, but can't do it?

 

[tomasmccann]

Err, one question. Doesn't Terra's armor hold his mind? Lingering Sentiment?

 

[Crystal]

Err, one question. Doesn't Terra's armor hold his mind? Lingering Sentiment?

Terra's thoughts left in the armor.

 

[Jelai]

Xemnas has no emotions, but wants to be with his friends tue to the Terra part of himself acting up.

He wields no Keyblade though, probably because the MX part of him knows about it? I mean maybe MX doesn't want anyone to know that he can wield a keyblade for some secet reason.

Or maybe MX is just too lazy to do all the dirty work for himself.

 

[chasespicer056]

Err, one question. Doesn't Terra's armor hold his mind? Lingering Sentiment?

Honestly, if Lingering Sentiment had Terra's soul, Terra would have died, or at least wouldn't have been able to fight back against MX's control in Radiant Garden.

Here's my view on LS: for some strange reason, LS has, if you will, a "copy" of Terra's soul, which of course includes his mind.

Now I know I don't have any evidence for this, but hear me out. The armor is ALIVE. And it THINKS just like Terra. Thus, I'm inclined to believe that somehow, Terra's soul was duplicated and became part of the armor.

Even if it was just his emotions, that wouldn't explain how Terra retained his own emotions while being possessed by MX.

Good point about LS. That's another hole I have to work on...

Unfortunately, since there is still so little of him in the series, I don't have enough evidence to back any theory for how he exists.

 

[HeartSeams]

Re: Hipocritical

okay, so heartseam's getting all pissed off at people who need proof that Roxas has Ven's heart.

Actually, I was getting pissed at people who needed Nomura's word to understand that Roxas had Ven's heart. Proof outside of Nomura's word runs rampant in the actual games, many instances I pointed out multiple times (fainting in CO, Dual Wield, Axel's conversation with Roxas, etc.)

She clearly expresses that she doesn't need something that is written to know that roxas has a damn heart.

I expressed that I don't need Nomura saying "Yes, he has Ven's heart" to know that Roxas has a 'damn heart' because it's laid out pretty clearly in the actual games. It was mostly part of my recent upset that people only understand things if Nomura says so. It just seems that people are incapable to put things together themselves anymore. Perhaps you can understand that better?

Yet earlier, she complains on how keyblades (which are counterparts of hearts) don't give off emotions/personalities.

First off, nowhere (i repeat, nowhere) does it ever say that Keyblades are counterparts of hearts. It was said that they were counterparts to Kingdom Hearts (which, simplified, means they work in tandem to one another, not that they are like one another). Glad we got that out of the way.

We are dealing with someone who doesn't think clearly.

Amusing.

XD First off heartseam, why the hell are you trying to prove people wrong

Because that's the point of these forums? To discuss theories. If a theory has a hole in it, we should point it out so our theories can become stronger and, in that way, more likely to be plausible. Do you want to go around here reading theories about how MF is Kairi's transsexual father? Probably not, and that's why there are people who show the flaws in a theory. If you think I go around here just hoping there are theories I can crush, you're wrong. The most enjoyable thing is reading a theory that is truly good and seems solid.

Personally, i do think keyblades do give off emotions (with proof of xion and roxas showing them).

Please enlighten me in how Roxas is proof of Keyblades giving off emotions. I'm all ears.

Keyblades have been known to "choose" their wielders as stated in KH1. Let me note that when sora let jack sparrow hold his keyblade, the keyblade rejected him. In BBS, Kairi held onto Aqua's keyblade and 13 years later, SHAZAAM! she was able to hold a keyblade. Nomura even stated that little kairi touching the keyblade meant she was passed the power. Again, jack sparrow held the keyblade and was REJECTED.

I'm sorry... how does the Keyblade being able to choose its wielder demonstrate that it can give a wielder emotions?

Most likely because the keyblade didn't like Jack's personality of being a selfish money-hungry pirate and would rather be with a young boy who helps people of different worlds live happy lives.

Or because:
1 - He may not have had a strong heart
2 - The Keyblade already belonged to Sora
3 - Sora isn't a Master and therefore can't perform a Rite of Succession, which leads to...
4 - With the exception of Sora, you need to have gone through the Rite before you can wield.

All of those are canon reasons as to why Jack might not be able to wield the Keyblade, and none of them have to do with the Keyblades inability/ability to "give off emotions".

KEYBLADES DO HAVE SOULS!!!

That's... quite the leap.

Riku gained a keyblade called "way to Dawn" which was gained when he walked the road to Twilight. A keyblade of light and darkness...pretty much sums up riku's personality, eh? a boy who lingers between light and darkness, helping the light while he constantly stays in the shadows. The keyblade chose it's wielder to have it's power.

Again.... how does this show that Keyblades give off emotions? Riku had the ability to wield because Terra performed the Rite with him. Over the course of KH2, his Soul Eater turned into the Way to Dawn at some point. That's all we really know about Riku's Keyblade (that and it's a Light Realm Keyblade). None of that really shows the "emotion" claim.

Nobodies don't have hearts.

They shouldn't, no. But, perhaps that's why Roxas is called a "Special Nobody"?

Why would xemnas bring a SOMEBODY into the organization and give his a new name?

Why did he bring in a replica into the Organization and give it a new name? Because it had a Keyblade and was therefore useful to him.
Also, Roxas is Sora's Nobody and that hasn't changed. Just because he has Ven's sleeping heart inside him doesn't change that.

You can't JUST say "xemnas didn't know".

To be honest, he probably didn't. It doesn't really seem any of the Org noticed that Roxas expressed emotions at all (which is silly).

Roxas is no exception

Actually, he is. That's why he's called a "Special Nobody". He was an exception to the Rules of Nobodies.

but xion and roxas had keyblades.

Technically, Xion only had the copy of a Keyblade.

They were the only ones who expressed emotions.

Which, as explained a few times in this thread is because Roxas has Ven's sleeping heart inside him.

There is enough evidence to say that keyblades have emotion..

Um, care to point it out? Because so far all you've really pointed out was that Keyblades can choose their masters, but, that isn't exactly conclusive evidence that they can give off emotions which is what the theory was originally suggesting.

but compared to heartseam's rant on how roxas has ven's heart because she JUST knows it

Um, I've shown a few times the evidence of Roxas having Ven's heart. Perhaps it went over your head?

but tries her best to debunk someone's theory

Which, again, is kind of the point of this section: to discuss theories and their stability.

I am bashing someone who tries their best to make everone around her feel stupid

I don't really need to try, actually.

she tries debunking the person who made this thread's theory because it doesn't have proof from Nomura.

The problem was that it didn't have proof period. I was looking for evidence from the games that would support this claim that Keyblades give people emotions, but the only thing Chase had was "IF Roxas didn't have a heart, then this would be proof", but, the problem is, he does have Ven's heart. So, where is the proof? Why haven't we seen this "Keyblade gives emotions" to the other eleven Keyblade wielders we've seen so far? There just isn't evidence to support the idea. THAT was my problem with it. I don't care if Nomura didn't make a comment either way on it, I just don't see the evidence in the actual games

she later states that Roxas has a heart but doesn't need written proof because she knows he does. "I don't need Nomura to say it bluntly to know it is the truth."

Again, I was looking for proof that had nothing to do with Nomura interviews, meaning, proof from the games. I had selected a few moments from the games that supported the "Roxas has Ven's Heart" claim, while no one really posted moments from the games that supported the "Keyblades give their weilders emotions" claim. That was the problem. I was actually doing my best to leave Nomura completely out of it because I don't think we should have to use him as such a crutch anymore.

I may not know Heartsem either, but how she presents herself on this forum, i don't think i want to know her.

Aw.

It's not right that she's acting like this.

lol, how am I acting? I'm putting evidence to my claims, and, I know I can be a bit intense and to the point with my posts, but it's not like I'm trying to bash the people behind the theory, I'm just trying to get to the deeper issue revolving around it, being that, there isn't enough evidence to support this theory. Overtime, I admit, I did get more and more agitated, but it was mostly because, after about 14 pages of this going back and forth, people still didn't seem to understand.

She needs to grow up, and so do you.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

BUT a keyblade from Twilight picked Riku to be it's holder when riku walked the road of twilight.

Actually, no. Riku's Keyblade is from the Light Realm, not the "Twilight" or "In Between" Realm.

But what i still don't get is " Roxas IS a nobody just with someone else's (besides Sora, the body and soul he is using) hearts. Which makes him the nobody of Sora." So how cold roxas be a nobody with someone else's heart. He would be called a nobody at all, just a new somebody.

A Nobody is the left over body and soul of someone who loses their heart to darkness. Sora lost his heart and casted off his body and soul which became Roxas. This made Roxas Sora's Nobody. Now, within Sora, was a fractured and sleeping heart. This heart was Ven's. Since it isn't complete, it stayed in Sora's body which led to Ven's heart being with Roxas. The thing is, that isn't Roxas'/Sora's heart, and it is a fractured heart. The heart within Roxas was practically disconnected from him completely. Roxas is still a Nobody, but he has a broken heart inside him that belongs to someone else. Ven isn't Roxas' somebody, Sora is. Since the heart isn't complete, neither is Roxas. That makes him a Nobody still.

It has been officially stated by Nomura that Sora in Chain of Memories up to the beginning of KH2 was a walking heart.

Actually, Nomura has never officially stated that.

Well, Roxas is a nobody. Creatures that linger between light and darkness. Nobodies don't have heart, so they don't possess light or darkness in their beings but they choose to follow the light or darkness. I wuld understand if nobodies were to be made of darkness and Roxas was able to complete ven's fractured heart in his body, butthat's not the case. But if you are right about Roxas being able to live on a fractured heart, then that would mean he was able to comple the fractured heart...which is only by giving it darkness. "Now Roxas (a being thats not supposed to have a heart in the first place) has this broken heart, he can animate and move but still benefit from the incomplete heart." Early Ven and Roxas both had a body, soul, and fractured heart...but ven almost died and Roxas acted normal...i don't think i can wrap my mind around Roxas being able to live on a fractured heart because he's a new creation not meant to have a heart...he would have to complete it somehow.

He's able to live because he's a Nobody, not because he has a fractured heart. Ven had a fractured heart and couldn't live. Roxas has a fractured heart in him, and can live. That alone kind of illustrates the differences. Roxas is a Nobody, he just happens to have someone else's broken heart in him. It's different from a complete being (Ven) having a fractured heart.

Roxas let xion borrow his keyblade and he was near her the entire time. He could still be affected by the keyblades power. This would explain why roxas made axel feel like he had a heart.

Roxas made Axel feel like he had a heart because Roxas had a heart, not because he had a Keyblade. Xion never made Axel feel like he had a heart.

Xion didn't have a heart whatsoever

We don't actually know that. It's never stated whether or not he had a heart. But seeing as how Repliku, a replica made shortly after her, had a heart, one could assume so did Xion.

which is why we never say a heart fly towards the sky when she died.

We never saw Repliku's heart leave either, but it was heavily implied he had one.

Overall, I enjoyed your posts. :3

 

[Fractured_Heart628]

Isn't it possible that Xemnas didn't regain all his memories after the big fight with Aqua and eventually losing his memories, thus losing the ability to wield the Keyblade. Isn't it probably that all the experiments Ansem and the other apprentices did on him, delving into darkness, and eventually being split into two beings, a Nobody and a Heartless. That he may not have ever regained the ability to wield the Keyblade. So, the ethereal blades might act as a replacement for him like the sword does with Riku. That it's hard to regain the ability to wield the Keyblade once you lost it.