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Ienzo's purpose



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Alpha Baymax

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After getting confirmation that Ienzo will return in this game was great news. Even better was the fact that he will remain with the heroes, and him directly helping Sora means that he holds some sort of narrative value.

After evaluating all of the official material released about him, I have a theory as to why he may be more important than we are all assuming. I believe that Ienzo is the one that creates a Replica Roxas through data, and said Roxas is the character shown in the TGS trailer in The Keyblade Graveyard.

Ienzo's incentive to revive Roxas would be understanding how much Roxas meant to Lea and Sora, coupled with Ansem the Wise's request to try and retrieve him again to undo the pain Ansem the Wise caused to Roxas. Vexen seems to align himself with The Seekers of Darkness, so he cannot re-create Roxas, so it would be up to Ienzo to do that task instead.

In regards to Replica Roxas power with the Keyblade, Replica Roxas could have been kept in a time chamber by Merlin to speed up his Keyblade training like Kairi and Lea, so that this version Roxas was prepared for the inevitable Keyblade War. A covert backup plan in the events that the Guardians of Light are outmatched.

What's everybody's thoughts on this?
 

SweetYetSalty

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Yay! My first post in the forums! Hi everyone. As for the topic at hand, Ienzo's role really interest me. I hope him and Lexaeus (forgot his regular name) remain good guys. Right now they along with Xaldin are the only ones not back in Organization XIII. I think it would be cool for Ienzo to help create a replica body for Roxas. It would be nice to see him take over the replica project for the good guys side since Vexen looks to be with the baddies. Maybe we'll get a Ienzo vs Vexen showdown? How cool would it be for Ienzo, Lexaeus and Dilan to fight side by side with Sora and Roxas against their former colleagues?

But as far as Roxas needing training, If he's using a Replica body and still has his own heart, shouldn't not really need the training? Roxas was already a powerful keyblader already.
 

Relix

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I personally hope it's the bonafide Roxas that comes to steal the show but I suppose in a game with this level of twists and turns anything is possible. I'm quite skeptical of the replica angle though, although Repliku and Xion's participation allows room for speculation.

As far as Ienzo goes though I'm hoping that his contribution to the overall goal to defeat Xehanort or support Sora and co. using his intellect and ingenuity really shines. I want him to be the Ienzo the Wise he is meant to be.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Yay! My first post in the forums! Hi everyone. As for the topic at hand, Ienzo's role really interest me. I hope him and Lexaeus (forgot his regular name) remain good guys. Right now they along with Xaldin are the only ones not back in Organization XIII. I think it would be cool for Ienzo to help create a replica body for Roxas. It would be nice to see him take over the replica project for the good guys side since Vexen looks to be with the baddies. Maybe we'll get a Ienzo vs Vexen showdown? How cool would it be for Ienzo, Lexaeus and Dilan to fight side by side with Sora and Roxas against their former colleagues?

But as far as Roxas needing training, If he's using a Replica body and still has his own heart, shouldn't not really need the training? Roxas was already a powerful keyblader already.

Glad to have you here, this forum is a passionate bunch, so be prepared for inevitable debates. Hopefully, you're enjoying the discussions you're having here so far.

Aeleaus has been confirmed to definitely be one of the good guys as shown here. Dilan, on the other hand, is more ambiguous...

[video=youtube;XSaMxOUh_iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSaMxOUh_iw[/video]

The reason why I believe he will need training is to make him prepared to go against Xehanort. Yen Sid made Mickey and Riku Keyblade Masters, whilst Sora has had his training by Yen Sid, too. Kairi and Lea have the benefit of the hyperbolic time chamber by Merlin due to their inexperience, so Roxas needs to be around their skill level, hence the training.

I personally hope it's the bonafide Roxas that comes to steal the show but I suppose in a game with this level of twists and turns anything is possible. I'm quite skeptical of the replica angle though, although Repliku and Xion's participation allows room for speculation.

As far as Ienzo goes though I'm hoping that his contribution to the overall goal to defeat Xehanort or support Sora and co. using his intellect and ingenuity really shines. I want him to be the Ienzo the Wise he is meant to be.

Well, Replica characters often feel empty, so this hypothetical Replica Roxas can be the body host for the real Roxas' heart. It's a workaround to make Roxas whole without having to make Sora a Heartless again.

Ienzo definitely deserves to do something to make him shine, he seems like a kind-hearted character when he is not a Nobody, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Right, his name is Aeleaus, which sounds the same. Anyway I'm glad he's apparently good for now. I hope he has a moment with Roxas and goes "Hey, remember that time I smacked you in the face so hard your health bar went to critical?" I know it won't happen but I can dream.

Also I suppose that's true about needing the training if Sora and the gang needed it. But if Roxas gets a replica body, would he leech off Sora for power? I also wonder why there is no power struggle between all the Xehanorts. There were three Sora's running around at one point and they kept leeching off each other. Old man Xehanort doesn't seem to have that problem with all his multiple selves. Is it a Keyblade Master thing?
 

alexis.anagram

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Neat, kind of like an inversion of the idea I posted in the Xion thread. This seems really feasible, although I wonder how we get from Ienzo crafting a Roxas replica to that replica appearing to be on the side of the Seekers in The Keyblade Graveyard. Either way, I do think that there's a Roxas replica running about, which would cohere with Nomura's statements that Roxas is a big secret: it's still fairly predictable, but Nomura tends to pretend KH stories are more clever than they really are, and it seems likely to me that he would pull a red herring with a Roxas "Seeker" who's meant to cause us to despair in our belief that it is t0t@lly the real deal until Roxas himself actually shows up. Surprise!

As for Ienzo, I imagine he's one of the "children" Ansem SoD was referring to in the final trailer. I also hope his powers of illusion are touched upon, as they could come in handy: if Xehanort's going to play dirty with the heroes, they ought to have a few tricks up their sleeves as well. Both Ienzo and Namine could work well to this end, and it'd be interesting to see what they can do in combination.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Well, Replica characters often feel empty, so this hypothetical Replica Roxas can be the body host for the real Roxas' heart. It's a workaround to make Roxas whole without having to make Sora a Heartless again.

Well, if this Replica body is intended to be the new physical container for the original Roxas, it needs to be kept dormant/in stasis until they can definitely implant Roxas' actual heart with all its memories into it as otherwise they run the risk of the Replica having experiences, develop memories and emotions and thus eventually form its own heart which would make it a different person and not really Roxas.

But if Roxas gets a replica body, would he leech off Sora for power? I also wonder why there is no power struggle between all the Xehanorts. There were three Sora's running around at one point and they kept leeching off each other. Old man Xehanort doesn't seem to have that problem with all his multiple selves. Is it a Keyblade Master thing?

Roxas has his own heart and memories and while he would likely remain connected with Sora's I don't see why he would leech off power.

The whole leeching off power stuff in Days was an involuntary special ability of Xion given to her when she was created which was only possible due to Sora's unhinged memories created in CoM.
The leeched power were in fact loose links of Sora's memory chain which Xion unwittingly absorbed through Roxas and his direct connection with Sora's heart.
These memory links became then the focus of a subconscious tug-of-war between Xion and Roxas which as a side effect resulted in Sora's memories being scattered across three people.
In the Days game proper this is shown through Roxas having dreams and visions about Sora, he's interacting with the loose memories inside him.
This is why Naminé was unable to finish Sora's restoration and why in the end both Xion and Roxas had to "disappear" and be absorbed into Sora, to give back the loose memories of Sora they hold.

Xehanort doesn't have this problem because a) this ability is not present and b) his memories weren't broken apart like Sora's were in CoM.
The only two of the Xehanort's who possibly could have a similar tug-of-war between memories are Ansem SoD and Xemnas because they have a similar relationship as Sora and Roxas have.
Yet there is (as far as we know) no third person with that memory leech ability involved so it might not be the case after all.
 

alexis.anagram

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Well, if this Replica body is intended to be the new physical container for the original Roxas, it needs to be kept dormant/in stasis until they can definitely implant Roxas' actual heart with all its memories into it as otherwise they run the risk of the Replica having experiences, develop memories and emotions and thus eventually form its own heart which would make it a different person and not really Roxas.
That might be the intended outcome, though. All of the replicas so far have been experiments, but one test they haven't tried is implanting a shard of MX's heart inside of the puppet before it begins to develop a consciousness. If it were to form an identity and "grow" a heart based on that seed, it could be a game changer for Xehanort's ambitions, and it's fully compatible with his tendency to play god and bend others to his will. They have no need for Roxas's memories as they would only lead him to resist Xehanort's influence with all his might, but if they can craft the copy without all the accompanying baggage and antipathy and force it to foster a persona/spirit to which Xehanort has a direct line of manipulation, it truly could be considered the perfect vessel.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Well, if this Replica body is intended to be the new physical container for the original Roxas, it needs to be kept dormant/in stasis until they can definitely implant Roxas' actual heart with all its memories into it as otherwise they run the risk of the Replica having experiences, develop memories and emotions and thus eventually form its own heart which would make it a different person and not really Roxas.



Roxas has his own heart and memories and while he would likely remain connected with Sora's I don't see why he would leech off power.

The whole leeching off power stuff in Days was an involuntary special ability of Xion given to her when she was created which was only possible due to Sora's unhinged memories created in CoM.
The leeched power were in fact loose links of Sora's memory chain which Xion unwittingly absorbed through Roxas and his direct connection with Sora's heart.
These memory links became then the focus of a subconscious tug-of-war between Xion and Roxas which as a side effect resulted in Sora's memories being scattered across three people.
In the Days game proper this is shown through Roxas having dreams and visions about Sora, he's interacting with the loose memories inside him.
This is why Naminé was unable to finish Sora's restoration and why in the end both Xion and Roxas had to "disappear" and be absorbed into Sora, to give back the loose memories of Sora they hold.

Xehanort doesn't have this problem because a) this ability is not present and b) his memories weren't broken apart like Sora's were in CoM.
The only two of the Xehanort's who possibly could have a similar tug-of-war between memories are Ansem SoD and Xemnas because they have a similar relationship as Sora and Roxas have.
Yet there is (as far as we know) no third person with that memory leech ability involved so it might not be the case after all.

I see. I forgot to take in account the whole memory scatter thing. That makes a lot more sense now. You'd think the Xehanorts would have some kind of problem when you add in Terranort to the mix lol.

Also amazing signature banner you have there :D
 

TruestSyn

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I know what we've seen of Ienzo so far, but my worry now is he's the one that Saix was talking to in the graveyard because one of the other screenshots he says "When I was human" and that might mean he's still a nobody and he is the "cloaked schemer" after all. Could be a betrayal thing but it's so hard to tell what's going to happen until it actually comes out. If someone else made this point I apologize, but I can only skim atm. We're a little busy today.
 

Sephiroth0812

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That might be the intended outcome, though. All of the replicas so far have been experiments, but one test they haven't tried is implanting a shard of MX's heart inside of the puppet before it begins to develop a consciousness. If it were to form an identity and "grow" a heart based on that seed, it could be a game changer for Xehanort's ambitions, and it's fully compatible with his tendency to play god and bend others to his will. They have no need for Roxas's memories as they would only lead him to resist Xehanort's influence with all his might, but if they can craft the copy without all the accompanying baggage and antipathy and force it to foster a persona/spirit to which Xehanort has a direct line of manipulation, it truly could be considered the perfect vessel.

The intended outcome for Team Nort you mean.
If Ienzo is really aiming to help Sora & co. his intent would be to get the actual Roxas back with all his memories and connections intact.

Of course there is the prospect of the Norts sweeping in once the new body is ready but before Team Sora can transfer Roxas' heart.
It's a lot like some of the theories that were made around Ventus' body in Castle Oblivion.

I see. I forgot to take in account the whole memory scatter thing. That makes a lot more sense now. You'd think the Xehanorts would have some kind of problem when you add in Terranort to the mix lol.

Also amazing signature banner you have there :D

Yea, this problem is at least partly discussed in Days during the scene when Naminé and Riku speak at the white table in the mansion.

Nomura indicated that the issue with how powers/memories and hearts are distributed between Terra-Xehanort, Ansem SoD and Xemnas will play a major role in the story in the future back in the BBS Ultimania in 2010/2011, so it is possible that KH III will address this some form.

Why thank you, the upper banner is actually one I made myself a few years back when I had still more time at hand where I dabbled a little in digital art.
Now looking at it again more closely I see I included exactly the same characters the official KH III box art does as well, lol.
The small Sephiroth Moogle however was done by fellow Forum member Sign. There was even once a club for members who all had a Moogle avatar.
The drawn picture of sleeping Ventus is a sort of gift from DarkGreyHeroine which I too cherish for several years already hence why it is still present in the signature as well.


I know what we've seen of Ienzo so far, but my worry now is he's the one that Saix was talking to in the graveyard because one of the other screenshots he says "When I was human" and that might mean he's still a nobody and he is the "cloaked schemer" after all. Could be a betrayal thing but it's so hard to tell what's going to happen until it actually comes out. If someone else made this point I apologize, but I can only skim atm. We're a little busy today.

Betrayal is of course still a possibility, also when counting in that it was Ienzo who urged Ansem the Wise to go further in the heart research.
It would also be not the first time Sora is too trusting towards someone he should at least keep some skepticism about.
If Ienzo retains the illusion powers Zexion had one should probably be even more cautious.

Another thing I just realized is that since no one actively remembers her, the Norts could possible remove Xion's heart from Sora's without anyone noticing if they don't choose the brute variant.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Neat, kind of like an inversion of the idea I posted in the Xion thread. This seems really feasible, although I wonder how we get from Ienzo crafting a Roxas replica to that replica appearing to be on the side of the Seekers in The Keyblade Graveyard. Either way, I do think that there's a Roxas replica running about, which would cohere with Nomura's statements that Roxas is a big secret: it's still fairly predictable, but Nomura tends to pretend KH stories are more clever than they really are, and it seems likely to me that he would pull a red herring with a Roxas "Seeker" who's meant to cause us to despair in our belief that it is t0t@lly the real deal until Roxas himself actually shows up. Surprise!

As for Ienzo, I imagine he's one of the "children" Ansem SoD was referring to in the final trailer. I also hope his powers of illusion are touched upon, as they could come in handy: if Xehanort's going to play dirty with the heroes, they ought to have a few tricks up their sleeves as well. Both Ienzo and Namine could work well to this end, and it'd be interesting to see what they can do in combination.

Thanks for the feedback on the theory.

I'm under the assumption that whatever information that Sora, Hayner, Pence and Olette find about Roxas through Data Twilight Town, they relay that information to Ienzo, and he uses said information to reconstruct Roxas the best he can. Of course, the process takes some time, so it's not until The Guardians of Light end up in The Keyblade Graveyard in which the Replica Roxas is complete.

The benefit of having a Replica Roxas is that Sora can find a body that Roxas heart can be melded into. Unlike the Replica Riku situation in which the real Riku exists, the real Roxas has no body of its own whilst the Replica Roxas lacks a real heart.

The idea of having Ienzo and Namine work together is a really smart concept that I did not consider. Ienzo has powers over illusions and Namine has powers over memories to those close to Sora (and Ventus). Maybe that's part of the reason why Namine has not been shown in trailers, her involvement may be spoiler territory.

I know what we've seen of Ienzo so far, but my worry now is he's the one that Saix was talking to in the graveyard because one of the other screenshots he says "When I was human" and that might mean he's still a nobody and he is the "cloaked schemer" after all. Could be a betrayal thing but it's so hard to tell what's going to happen until it actually comes out. If someone else made this point I apologize, but I can only skim atm. We're a little busy today.

I don't think it is. Ienzo and Aeleaus have both been re-completed just like Lea. Dilan/Xaldin is the more likely candidate because we've yet to see his fate, and just like Vexen, he was still comatose in Dream Drop Distance. Vexen ended up being a Seeker of Darkness despite not being collected by Xigbar and Young Xehanort after the original Organization XIII were defeated. Also, it just seems jarring from a narrative standpoint to suddenly see Ienzo helping Xehanort after initially helping Sora.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Also, it just seems jarring from a narrative standpoint to suddenly see Ienzo helping Xehanort after initially helping Sora.
Not out of malice anyway. One way I could see it working is Org. XIII threatening Ansem the Wise's life in order to force Ienzo in helping them out too.
 

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Not out of malice anyway. One way I could see it working is Org. XIII threatening Ansem the Wise's life in order to force Ienzo in helping them out too.

I didn't really think about that. I was just looking at that screenshot. That makes sense though, Ansem was pretty much Ienzo's father.
 

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Perhaps this isn't the best thread to say this, but I'll be blunt. I don't believe Roxas’ role will be all that important anymore, or at least not more than any other major protagonist in the game (despite Nomura's implications, which could've easily been an overestimation on his part). The fact that he still appears to be within Sora while he's in a confirmed endgame Disney world like BH6 already shows that regardless of the potential efforts previously made to bring him back, he's still gonna be out of the equation till the final third of the game atleast. Then there's the fact that we've only physically seen him so far in the battle zone where literally everyone else is shown fighting (and this is framed like a reveal). And as I've said before, it's both shown and implied everyone but Sora gets incapacitated by the end of it, leaving Sora alone (which is, again, implied by the ending of the Final Battle Trailer). No matter how I look at that, his(Roxas’) role ultimately seems inconsequential in the grand scheme of things again.

In regards to Ienzo though, I definitely agree that he (along with probably Chip & Dale, or Ansem the Wise) will be the one to reconstruct Roxas toward the end of the game (likely as a form of reinforcements/back up). I imagine that with his workaholic tendencies, he'll be working tirelessly on restoring Roxas or simply assisting Sora in any other way he could. I also think it's possible that since we see him interact with Demyx in a previous trailer, he might take initiative against Xehanort and use his Illusionary abilities (which I'm assuming he still has access to) to deceive Demyx into thinking he obtained something or someone, when in reality Ienzo tricked him in order to buy more time. Being the “Cloaked Schemer” and all, it's not impossible or out of character for him to have counter plans like this in place for just such occasions.
 
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