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Is anyone else concerned about how Phase 2 is going to be handled?



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Vulpes XIII

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Ok so maybe concerned isn’t the right word for this, but does anyone else think Phase 2 is going to have a problem handling everything it’s setting up. Honestly im a bit worried about how the direction of Phase 2 is going to go


Nomura already has two separate plot lines running with Union X and Quadratum and honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if he adds any more but my problem is I have a feeling he‘s going to struggle to balance them all at once as he’ll start to focus so much on one plotline that any other plotlines he has will barely get any development resulting in a lot of potential character development being missed out.

Either that or he will try to balance all the different plots at once and everything will feel undeveloped with a lot of wasted opportunities because there too much going on. As how is he going to successfully balance Sora, Riku all the returning characters as well as new ones plus he‘s also got the lore of a whole new reality to set up as well. It just feels as something going to suffer from lack of development and screen time because of everything else going on

Does anyone else have any concerns about Phase 2?
 

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The plotlines will converge one way or the other. The ending of Union X, and maybe Dark Road, may have things to do with Quadratum. At the least there will be some answers given, but more questions asked.

Next game there are some things to cover: Riku in Quadratum, whatever Sora is doing, Mickey in Scala, all the other chars doing whatever they are doing. maybe Luxu will reveal himself and his plans then.
 

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I have a "just going with it" attitude as of right now because my emotional investment has sorta been spent at this point, in a mostly good way I would say though, with KH3, ReMind, and MoM.

That being said, my only concern is Nomura not adapting as a writer. I think he needs to use better story telling devices within the same game. Not everything needs to be its own game (Coded), so I hope he tries to integrate more lore in a concise manner rather than fragmenting it across multiple games, regardless of what type of game they are.

Love or hate ReMind (I personally enjoyed the hell out of that DLC) I think it showed Nomura making a real effort to respond to the criticisms of the game, particularly from fans. That scene of all the guardians destroying the armored Xehanort is nearly exactly what some fans had expressed they wished happened.

It's clear that certain characters are still being handled badly, but it seems Nomura is at least in touch with the community to a certain degree. I think it's a coin flip whether he takes that to the next level or not.

I like what I am seeing in the recent Union X updates as well. They actually make sense to me in a more streamlined fashion, despite still being convoluted.

As for the numerous storylines and characters, it's what I expect now just not necessarily what I want. I just hope we spend more time on new characters without retreading what's happened before too much.

So, overall, I think it could go either way. My emotional investment in the series has been put to rest for now, so I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but I'll still wait and see what happens next and hope the new saga grabs me.
 
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The concept of unreality may make things more confusing but that's par for the series at this point.

I'm more concerned with other matters such as the Disney worlds and if the company is going to become more restrictive as time goes on. Not to mention if Kairi will finally become more prominent. Re: MIND was a step in the right direction and then came MoM
 

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Even caring about phase 2 right now is a bad play imho. There are two major objectives right now: Get MoM to return (Luxu's side) and Get Sora Back/Return To The Realm of Light (SRK side). We don't know how these two forces are supposed to collide, or how they may interact with each other.

It's best to not worry about it.
 

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I'd feel a lot better once we have a clear idea of who's going to be involved going forward. IMO most potential problems with it come as a result of bloat and having way too many characters running around. They desperately need to trim the fat and should not even consider keeping people around if they don't need to be.

Really wish Nomura did some interviews about UX too, so we could try to understand how he actually feels about it. Is the story as good as it is because drip-feeding it gives him more leeway and time to think things through? Or is it because he found himself more engaged with these plotlines than what was going on in the mainline games at the time, in which case we might have less to worry about as they play a big role in the next saga.
 

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I'm not even worrying about the story going forward, because I figure it will be better than KH3's no matter what. It's like, they got that over with, now here's the story he actually wants to tell. I even feel optimistic about Sora and Riku in Quadratum, whenever that game comes. I would like to see new characters, and hopefully at least one more original world besides fictional Tokyo.

There was a thread on here that made me think "Phase 2" could actually signal an "awakening" in the story, with everything shifting drastically, shedding the story as we know it. I feel like they could easily wrap up everything left trailing behind from the mobile games in one console title, AND have a completely other story going on. Though I imagine The Master of Masters and Xehanort's stories will continue on, even in another worldline.

What I am concerned about, is gameplay and design.
 

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I am more concerned about the fanbase hyping the game only to be disappointed when the game doesn't live up to their expectations, but this usually happens to any game, not only KH.
I'm very interested in Yozora and his universe but this time I'll maintain my own hype at a reasonable level. My main concern is the lore being properly explained in the games but Nomura doesn't care about that anymore and the ultimanias do a bad job so I'll take the next games as they are as long as they're fun and engaging.
 

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I'm more concerned with other matters such as the Disney worlds and if the company is going to become more restrictive as time goes on. Not to mention if Kairi will finally become more prominent. Re: MIND was a step in the right direction and then came MoM
If KH3 anything to go on then I think we can expect Disney to be more restrictive on the Disney worlds, however I don’t think there going to restrictive on every single world I feel like that going to based on the movies popularity which is why I hope we don’t get Frozen 2 as a world because they would be just as restrictive and I have a feeling there would be more songs that would get the treatment that Let It Go got In KH3.

Unfortunately I think Kairi in Re:Mind was just there to please the fans after Nomura saw people reactions to how Kairi was treated in KH3 and I think Nomura always had planned to go back to keeping Kairi on the sidelines after Re:Mind and the whole training with Aqua thing is just an excuse so he doesn’t have to write her.

I hope I’m wrong about the way Nomura plans to treat Kairi in the future as if he’s not planning to give her character development then he’s already made a mistake before we even had a chance to properly start Phase 2. Honestly I think that‘s what i’m concerned about the most in Phase 2 as future games in this saga seem like they could have a lot of potential however Nomura could easily repeat mistakes he‘s made in previous games and that would mess with the potential this saga has.
 

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I try not to delve on that. I also disagree with Disney being more restrictive but I’ve spent too much time defending Disney that I’ve grown disgusted with myself. Y’all really exhausted me to the point that I had to defend this evil company...

Be careful who you put on a pedestal. Don’t forget that video game development is a grey mess of politics and management.
 

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If there's one thing I'm NOT concerned about, it's Nomura's ability to tie disparate plotlines together. The man is downright obsessed with making things fit and build up to something (which is good). The thing I worry about is his writing. More specifically, his characterization and sense of narrative cohesion.

Nomura can write some solid dialogue now and then, but I feel that he doesn't have a good handle on WHAT to have the characters talk about or what to do with them physically in a scene.

The interactions between the villains and the heroes have become particularly weak in recent years. DDD, KH3, and even UX basically just used interactions between protagonist and antagonist characters as foreground for laborious exposition. There's very little clash-of-personality involved in these exchanges anymore, though granted, things were only slightly better in this regard back in the olden days.

Think about this: Over the course of both DDD and KH3, Sora and Young Xehanort had numerous encounters. Now, despite those encounters, how much do you think Sora actually came to learn about Xehanort himself? I would wager very little. Because every time the two of them interacted, the only thing that would come out of Xehanort's mouth was exposition, weak taunts, and cryptic warnings. There was never real character in their dialogue, which is unfortunate, because those interactions could have been a great way to build up Sora and Xehanort's antagonism without having to use his older self since he hadn't resurrected by that point. He could learn about his enemy by talking with his younger self, and maybe Sora might have even seen a bit of himself in him.

Nomura likes to tell us about his characters offhand because he doesn't really know how to display them through dialogue, and that results in a lack of dramatic tension. He needs to do better than that if we're going to care about characters going forward. I think a lot of the appreciation for Master Xehanort comes from nostalgia over Ansem and Xemnas, which were much better written in terms of their relationship to Sora.
 

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I'm more concerned with other matters such as the Disney worlds and if the company is going to become more restrictive as time goes on.
For the moment, I'm expecting the opposite, tbh. I know I've talked in the past about John Lasseter's removal being a major change (and how his micromanaging likely contributed to KH3 being the way it was since that game was the first to utilize properties he was involved with in the series). Now I believe I was right to think that just going by some new changes with the Disney Princess line that I've read about. In the past, they were kept very distinct and separate from one another in merchandise, but there's been a shift with the characters actually interacting with one another in clipart and merchandise lately that a lot of Disney fans have been commenting on. There have also been those few games that have come out recently where Disney allowed their properties to be utilized more; those games also had anime characters similar to Sora, Riku, etc. I'm very hopeful on that point.

Anyway, speaking for myself, I didn't really think I had concerns about Phase 2 when I first started reading this thread, but now I'm sitting here thinking about it... One concern I think I do have is that Phase 2 likely won't have a KH1-esque game as a base. Most people have noted the deteriorating story quality post-CoM... Well, the saga was able to limp onwards to a "conclusion" in a sense in KH3 because KH1 operated as a strong anchor to build off. Phase 2 will have to begin with a new base game that drives that saga's plot.... I'm not sure if KH in 2021 is capable of meeting that quality level. Of course, the case may be that Nomura is simply better with beginnings and not so much with follow-through with his plots when it comes to continuing series, so perhaps the first game will be great and the rest will follow a similar deteriorating trek as with the first saga? Who knows.
 

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For the moment, I'm expecting the opposite, tbh. I know I've talked in the past about John Lasseter's removal being a major change (and how his micromanaging likely contributed to KH3 being the way it was since that game was the first to utilize properties he was involved with in the series). Now I believe I was right to think that just going by some new changes with the Disney Princess line that I've read about. In the past, they were kept very distinct and separate from one another in merchandise, but there's been a shift with the characters actually interacting with one another in clipart and merchandise lately that a lot of Disney fans have been commenting on. There have also been those few games that have come out recently where Disney allowed their properties to be utilized more; those games also had anime characters similar to Sora, Riku, etc. I'm very hopeful on that point.

Anyway, speaking for myself, I didn't really think I had concerns about Phase 2 when I first started reading this thread, but now I'm sitting here thinking about it... One concern I think I do have is that Phase 2 likely won't have a KH1-esque game as a base. Most people have noted the deteriorating story quality post-CoM... Well, the saga was able to limp onwards to a "conclusion" in a sense in KH3 because KH1 operated as a strong anchor to build off. Phase 2 will have to begin with a new base game that drives that saga's plot.... I'm not sure if KH in 2021 is capable of meeting that quality level. Of course, the case may be that Nomura is simply better with beginnings and not so much with follow-through with his plots when it comes to continuing series, so perhaps the first game will be great and the rest will follow a similar deteriorating trek as with the first saga? Who knows.
Actually, this is one area where I'm optimistic. The best games in the series were the games where you didn't know what you were going into. KH1 had a clean slate, CoM was a complete game-changer in terms of style and conflict, and KH2, even though there were some elements that were built up for it in the previous games, didn't really broadcast WHAT the main conflict was going to be about. None of the commercials or promotional material back then hinted at what the story was going to be about, and that left a lot of room for mystery.

The problem with KH3 is that it was front-loaded with the baggage of the entire series up to that point. The marketing was constantly spoiling who the villains were, and the games leading up to it (particularly DDD) were relentlessly broadcasting what the story was going to be about. There was no mystique to it. I remember when I used to watch the old KH2 ads, I remember thinking that I didn't know WHAT the heck I was in store for. With KH3, I'd gotten beaten over the head with what was coming by half the games that came before.

So, if what we're looking at really is a clean slate for the series, then I have high hopes. Of course, it can't be a completely clean slate, since UX is obviously going to be a big part of the story moving forward, and the epilogue basically tells us who the villains are going to be. But there's enough mystery as to what the villains' plans and what the general conflict of the story is going to be moving forward. And Nomura generally works much better in those areas.
 

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At this stage I'm less concerned about Disney being as protective of their IP as they were in 2013/2014 when decisions about KH3 were made. I'm just holding them to their word that they want game developers to get innovative with their IPs. Whether that is more about their Star Wars and Marvel side compared to their actual Disney side, I don't know. But if a mobile game can have Sulley and Elsa in battle armour fighting alongside each other then I don't get why they won't let KH do the same.

maxresdefault.jpg


Heck, like KH it takes place in "another world" so just let SE do their thing, pls

disney-mirrorverse-28452-2.jpg


With Union X Dark Road ending, I'm glad to be getting a clearer idea of what the heck is going on with the next game in terms of villains. Some of its story seems pointless since we know certain things and spent years unraveling the stuff we already know, but the Darkness element is intriguing so I'm happy with where we could go.

But ultimately, there's nothing to be concerned over at this stage. We don't know the form of the next game, we don't know what's going on with it. Just feels like worrying over it is pointless.
 

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At this stage I'm less concerned about Disney being as protective of their IP as they were in 2013/2014 when decisions about KH3 were made. I'm just holding them to their word that they want game developers to get innovative with their IPs. Whether that is more about their Star Wars and Marvel side compared to their actual Disney side, I don't know. But if a mobile game can have Sulley and Elsa in battle armour fighting alongside each other then I don't get why they won't let KH do the same.

maxresdefault.jpg


Heck, like KH it takes place in "another world" so just let SE do their thing, pls

disney-mirrorverse-28452-2.jpg


With Union X Dark Road ending, I'm glad to be getting a clearer idea of what the heck is going on with the next game in terms of villains. Some of its story seems pointless since we know certain things and spent years unraveling the stuff we already know, but the Darkness element is intriguing so I'm happy with where we could go.

But ultimately, there's nothing to be concerned over at this stage. We don't know the form of the next game, we don't know what's going on with it. Just feels like worrying over it is pointless.
I never knew about this mobile game before, I can’t believe Disney actually allowed this, I thought they were extremely protective of all their IP so that’s why they were very restrictive with anyone using it so this is definitely an surprise. Now It definitely makes no sense why they are so restrictive with KH using them.

So Sora isn’t allowed to interfere with Frozen plotline in KH3 and was reduced to mostly watching the events because Disney had issues with it but Elsa fighting In battle armour in some other developers mobile game is absolutely not a problem. This honestly makes no sense, I do not get Disney‘s logic with this at all
 

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That being said, my only concern is Nomura not adapting as a writer. I think he needs to use better story telling devices within the same game. Not everything needs to be its own game (Coded), so I hope he tries to integrate more lore in a concise manner rather than fragmenting it across multiple games, regardless of what type of game they are.
Honorable mention to BBS: 0.2 Fragmentary Passage basically being an excuse to justify why Mickey Mouse wasn't wearing a shirt in KH1.
Even caring about phase 2 right now is a bad play imho. There are two major objectives right now: Get MoM to return (Luxu's side) and Get Sora Back/Return To The Realm of Light (SRK side). We don't know how these two forces are supposed to collide, or how they may interact with each other.
Don't forget Subject X, the Seven lights, the Darkness and their plans, etc. Nomura already has way too much going on IMHO.
I'd feel a lot better once we have a clear idea of who's going to be involved going forward. IMO most potential problems with it come as a result of bloat and having way too many characters running around. They desperately need to trim the fat and should not even consider keeping people around if they don't need to be.
The fact that Nomura just HAD to bring Roxas and Xion and Namine back does not bode well for the future of the series. Plus The Boy In White (young Eraqus) and The Boy In Black (young Xehanort) appearing AFTER DEATH just to play a "new" game at the end of KH3...

Think the cast is bloated now? Try adding in all the Union X characters plus whoever appears in Phase 2 along with the cast from the Xehanort saga.
I'm not even worrying about the story going forward, because I figure it will be better than KH3's no matter what. It's like, they got that over with, now here's the story he actually wants to tell. I even feel optimistic about Sora and Riku in Quadratum, whenever that game comes. I would like to see new characters, and hopefully at least one more original world besides fictional Tokyo.

There was a thread on here that made me think "Phase 2" could actually signal an "awakening" in the story, with everything shifting drastically, shedding the story as we know it. I feel like they could easily wrap up everything left trailing behind from the mobile games in one console title, AND have a completely other story going on. Though I imagine The Master of Masters and Xehanort's stories will continue on, even in another worldline.

What I am concerned about, is gameplay and design.
Except Nomura is so easily distracted and lead off-course that his attention could easily switch from Phase 2 into something else. He's working on multiple projects at a time, even multiple KH projects at the time--who's to say he won't lose interest in Phase 2 like he lost interest in the Xehanort saga when he was working on UX?
Unfortunately I think Kairi in Re:Mind was just there to please the fans after Nomura saw people reactions to how Kairi was treated in KH3 and I think Nomura always had planned to go back to keeping Kairi on the sidelines after Re:Mind and the whole training with Aqua thing is just an excuse so he doesn’t have to write her.

I hope I’m wrong about the way Nomura plans to treat Kairi in the future as if he’s not planning to give her character development then he’s already made a mistake before we even had a chance to properly start Phase 2. Honestly I think that‘s what i’m concerned about the most in Phase 2 as future games in this saga seem like they could have a lot of potential however Nomura could easily repeat mistakes he‘s made in previous games and that would mess with the potential this saga has.
Nomura's basically repeating the excuse of KH3 at this point, having Kairi "train" to keep her out of the way of the actual plot.
If there's one thing I'm NOT concerned about, it's Nomura's ability to tie disparate plotlines together. The man is downright obsessed with making things fit and build up to something (which is good). The thing I worry about is his writing. More specifically, his characterization and sense of narrative cohesion.

Nomura can write some solid dialogue now and then, but I feel that he doesn't have a good handle on WHAT to have the characters talk about or what to do with them physically in a scene.

The interactions between the villains and the heroes have become particularly weak in recent years. DDD, KH3, and even UX basically just used interactions between protagonist and antagonist characters as foreground for laborious exposition. There's very little clash-of-personality involved in these exchanges anymore, though granted, things were only slightly better in this regard back in the olden days.

Think about this: Over the course of both DDD and KH3, Sora and Young Xehanort had numerous encounters. Now, despite those encounters, how much do you think Sora actually came to learn about Xehanort himself? I would wager very little. Because every time the two of them interacted, the only thing that would come out of Xehanort's mouth was exposition, weak taunts, and cryptic warnings. There was never real character in their dialogue, which is unfortunate, because those interactions could have been a great way to build up Sora and Xehanort's antagonism without having to use his older self since he hadn't resurrected by that point. He could learn about his enemy by talking with his younger self, and maybe Sora might have even seen a bit of himself in him.

Nomura likes to tell us about his characters offhand because he doesn't really know how to display them through dialogue, and that results in a lack of dramatic tension. He needs to do better than that if we're going to care about characters going forward. I think a lot of the appreciation for Master Xehanort comes from nostalgia over Ansem and Xemnas, which were much better written in terms of their relationship to Sora.
Sora (typical reaction during conversations with a villain): "What?" (scowls)
That being said, to put it bluntly, IMHO, Nomura's characters are static, relationships are relegated to a basic "friendship" (that seems to get more contrived as the series goes on) or cheap antagonism between heroes and villains, and the series refuses to take anything seriously, so why should we take it seriously ourselves?
Actually, this is one area where I'm optimistic. The best games in the series were the games where you didn't know what you were going into. KH1 had a clean slate, CoM was a complete game-changer in terms of style and conflict, and KH2, even though there were some elements that were built up for it in the previous games, didn't really broadcast WHAT the main conflict was going to be about. None of the commercials or promotional material back then hinted at what the story was going to be about, and that left a lot of room for mystery.

The problem with KH3 is that it was front-loaded with the baggage of the entire series up to that point. The marketing was constantly spoiling who the villains were, and the games leading up to it (particularly DDD) were relentlessly broadcasting what the story was going to be about. There was no mystique to it. I remember when I used to watch the old KH2 ads, I remember thinking that I didn't know WHAT the heck I was in store for. With KH3, I'd gotten beaten over the head with what was coming by half the games that came before.

So, if what we're looking at really is a clean slate for the series, then I have high hopes. Of course, it can't be a completely clean slate, since UX is obviously going to be a big part of the story moving forward, and the epilogue basically tells us who the villains are going to be. But there's enough mystery as to what the villains' plans and what the general conflict of the story is going to be moving forward. And Nomura generally works much better in those areas.
The problem with this kind of thinking is that you're expecting Nomura to start Phase 2 on a clean slate despite his obsessive efforts to keep everything tied together. I think the question is: can Nomura himself get to a point where he feels like he can start on a clean slate? IMHO, I doubt that. This is the same person who had to create a new game to explain why Roxas doesn't look like Sora and came up with BBS.
 

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At this stage I'm less concerned about Disney being as protective of their IP as they were in 2013/2014 when decisions about KH3 were made. I'm just holding them to their word that they want game developers to get innovative with their IPs. Whether that is more about their Star Wars and Marvel side compared to their actual Disney side, I don't know. But if a mobile game can have Sulley and Elsa in battle armour fighting alongside each other then I don't get why they won't let KH do the same.

maxresdefault.jpg


Heck, like KH it takes place in "another world" so just let SE do their thing, pls

disney-mirrorverse-28452-2.jpg


With Union X Dark Road ending, I'm glad to be getting a clearer idea of what the heck is going on with the next game in terms of villains. Some of its story seems pointless since we know certain things and spent years unraveling the stuff we already know, but the Darkness element is intriguing so I'm happy with where we could go.

But ultimately, there's nothing to be concerned over at this stage. We don't know the form of the next game, we don't know what's going on with it. Just feels like worrying over it is pointless.
Which one is this one? Disney seems to have as many all-star team-up games As Square does for FF characters.
 

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I’m on the boat that I’m mostly worried about character bloat. There are too many characters and Nomura has no intention of expanding on them properly. It’s clear with KH3 that without these characters being sequestered to their own stories, he just can’t juggle them all at one time.

The problem is that Nomura has essentially written himself into a corner where he must continue with these characters and their stories. He has given them all roles that are important to the next saga outside of Roxas, Xion, and Namine, and we know they won’t be retired due to how popular they are with fans.

That said, I've given up on really being concerned about the series. There is a point where you just have to let those feelings go and let yourself enjoy the series for what it is. Critique it, yes, but accept that it won't be what we want it to be because Nomura and the KH devs have their own ideas of what KH should be.

I never knew about this mobile game before, I can’t believe Disney actually allowed this, I thought they were extremely protective of all their IP so that’s why they were very restrictive with anyone using it so this is definitely an surprise. Now It definitely makes no sense why they are so restrictive with KH using them.

So Sora isn’t allowed to interfere with Frozen plotline in KH3 and was reduced to mostly watching the events because Disney had issues with it but Elsa fighting In battle armour in some other developers mobile game is absolutely not a problem. This honestly makes no sense, I do not get Disney‘s logic with this at all
A year after KH3's release, Disney announced that they were easing their restrictions and letting developers take on more creative approaches to their IP.


So at the time of KH3's development, all of their restrictions were in place. Now they aren't, so we'll see how much more freedom the KH devs have this go around.

Which one is this one? Disney seems to have as many all-star team-up games As Square does for FF characters.
This is Disney's Mirrorverse. I don't think it is officially out in all markets but it is available to play on Android devices.
 
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