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Is KH III ReMind (Final Mix) a Worthy Successor to KH II Final Mix?



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Veritas7

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From what I have seen, KH III Remind (Final Mix) tends to be underrated by many fellow fans. The point of this topic is not to disparage KHII, as that game is one of my favorites of all time, perhaps even my most favorite. Rather, the goal is to analyze the pros of KH III. This is all my opinion, so feel free to share yours as well. That said, let's start.

Overall, for me, the ranking is like this: KH III ReMind (Final Mix) >= KH II Final Mix > The rest of the series. Why? This game expands upon KH II in various ways by adding new gameplay mechanics and fixing story problems. Specifically, the pros are as follows:
  1. No Pete in the Disney Worlds: Pete is the Jar Jar of KH. In KH II Final Mix, the 1st round of worlds always seems insignificant, because you never encounter the real villain of the game for the vast majority of the worlds. It feels like the game really starts when the Organization finally reveals their plan in the Siege of Radiant Garden. Furthermore, Pete managed to completely dilute the impact of Maleficent, who used to be a worthy villain.
  2. Organization XIII had a Presence in Every Disney World: In KH II, I loved it when Xaldin was the villain. It made the world seem significant. In the 2nd round of worlds, it was also significant when Xigbar terrorized the Land of Dragons with a dragon heartless and Luxord terrorized Port Royal with a pirate heartless. Nonetheless, in KH II, this was not the norm because of reason 1 and even some round 2 worlds strangely did not involve the Organization. Conversely, in KH III, because the Organization is conducting experiments or threatening the new princesses in every world, it makes every world seem significant. Thus, this was a great expansion of what they did in KH II.
  3. The Culmination of Many Storylines: In KH III, you get to see the BBS trio finally reunited, the Days trio finally reunited, Namine's return, Sora and Kairi finally sharing a papou fruit, and Xehanort finally defeated. It outnumbers KHII's culmination, albeit brilliant, of Riku's redemption and the reunion of both Sora & Kairi and Roxas & Namine.
  4. You can Guard and use Items Mid-Air: In KH II, you were essentially defenseless if a data boss or Lingering Will caught you with a combo while you were in the air. I beat all those bosses on critical mode, and while I love them to death, I still find that annoying sometimes. In KH III Re Mind, you can take the battle to the sky, which I love.
  5. KH III Keyblade Transformations >= KH II Drive Forms; While I love drive forms, because you can store up to 3 keyblade transformations at time, KH III has a slight edge. Note, that if it were not for Roxas mode (Oathkeeper or Oblivion), I would have said that drive forms are better. In any event, the two are close, and the difference in my book is slight
  6. Quantity of Attacks: KH III Shotlocks, Links, and Team Attacks > KH II Drives, Summons, and Limits: Enough said. KH III's combat also feels like it flows at a faster pace, but perhaps that is just me.
Where KH II is better
  1. KH II's Ending is Better: There is so much closure in this beautiful ending. Sora had been separated from Kairi for a year. Now he was finally able to keep his Oathkeeper charm promise to come back to her. Not just that, Roxas and Namine are together because Sora and Kairi are. The music, the graphics, everything was just astounding. In contrast, while Sora's sacrifice in KH III is great, it just does not stack up to KH II's closure.
  2. KH II Actually Uses the Final Fantasy Group: Enough said.
  3. KH II Stitch Summon >KH III Links > Other KH II Summons Stitch has the ability to constantly replenish your MP, parry some attacks, and stay in the battle as long as you're hitting the boss. As such, he is an invaluable aid against data bosses and Lingering Will, more so than the KH III links were against data bosses and Yozora. Yes, KH III Links grant invincibility and restore HP, and for that reason, they are better than the other KH II summons
  4. KH II Limits > KH III Team Attacks: You can use limits anytime you have MP, they grant you invincibility, and Donald's limits are amazing. Conversely, the availability of team attacks is completely random and nonexistent obviously for data bosses and Yozora
What are your thoughts?
 

Face My Fears

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I loved ReMIND, but I think the biggest disappointment from it was that it didn't add additional scenes in the main game to build upon what was already in the base KH3. It was all about post-KH3.

Aside from that, I think ReMIND did wonders to show off the wonderful KH3 fighting system -- which I now think is better than KH2's. The KH3 data battles are WAY harder and need more thought/strategy than KH2's. KH2 had Reflect which was mega broken.
 

Veritas7

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I loved ReMIND, but I think the biggest disappointment from it was that it didn't add additional scenes in the main game to build upon what was already in the base KH3. It was all about post-KH3.

Aside from that, I think ReMIND did wonders to show off the wonderful KH3 fighting system -- which I now think is better than KH2's. The KH3 data battles are WAY harder and need more thought/strategy than KH2's. KH2 had Reflect which was mega broken.
That's a good point. It could have added scenes in the main game.

I also agree that KH3's fighting system is amazing. In KH2, you could somewhat rely on Donald's limits and cure, in addition to Reflect and Final Form Firaga. Conversely, in KH3, you have to fight solo.
 

Xblade13

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Gameplay-wise, I feel it is more than a worthy successor to KH2FM. Kingdom Hearts 3 is by far more consistently fun from beginning to end, at least in my opinion. The amount of choice you have in battle, which is a mix of KH2's flashy and KH1's strategy (elemental weaknesses being more important for Heartless types, more of a focus on blocking than spamming). The free update with Remind ironed out the awkward things in the gameplay and made the entire experience more snappy and fluid. I plan on replaying the entire series again soon and KH3 will feel like a great capstone on KH gameplay over the series so far.

Story-wise, they could have done more. More cutscenes during the actual plot of the game and some extra Heartless/secret boss variety would have made this the perfect KH. I loved the actual story stuff from Remind, but it was pretty basic.

What they should do now is keep the gameplay, maybe add some new spells/moves, and work on storytelling first and foremost for the next game.
 

SweetYetSalty

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The DLC pushes KH3 above KH2 for me. The Data Organization from KH3 are my all time favorite bosses of the entire series. I've learned so much from them. Before ReMind/Limitcut I was a guard spammer with no strategy and the game punished me for it. The Data fights forced me to adept and use abilities I didn't ever use before and bettered my reflexes. I'm a better player thanks to Limitcut and I love how challenging they were. I still replay the Data Org today with Pro Codes just to make them even harder. I enjoy the Keyblade transformations, the other playable character segments and all of it.

Even story wise I'd put KH3 above KH2. I like KH2 of course, but if I compared my first experiences of KH2 and KH3 then I enjoyed KH3 more, even the bittersweet ending. The KH2 ending was beautiful for me but mainly only for Sora, Riku, Kairi, Donald, Goofy, and Mickey. Unpopular opinion I wasn't into Roxas, the Organization, or the Nobodies back in the day. I only really enjoyed Xemnas, Demyx, and Axel. But in KH3 I was into everyone's story and character. All the heroes and villains. I always geeked out when they appeared in KH3 in unreal engine. Had I grown up with Final Mix KH2 over vanilla KH2 maybe I would have had more attachment to KH2 as a whole.

And finally KH3 has Data Greeting. Next to the Data Org and the Secret Episode boss this is the greatest gift KH has ever given me. I love fooling around in Data Greeting, I have way more fun in that then I expected. So yes, I think KH3 is a very worthy successor. The Osaka Team deserve a pat on the back with all they've done.
 

AR829038

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In terms of gameplay, ReMIND knocks 2FM out of the water. Truth be told, I actually wasn't even that critical of base KH3's gameplay (although, after the free update battle enhancements, I can't see myself ever going back to Final Flash ever again). Part of that is just that I'm one of the few KH fans that gets more out of the exploration and puzzle solving in these games than the combat—I was never a challenge monger like a lot of the other fans.
I WILL say, however, that as much I loved the new data battles, I do think it was misguided (and even a bit passive aggressive) to make them mandatory for main story progression. Limit Cut and the Secret Episode are, after all, extensions of the main story. It's my principled belief that story should NEVER be locked behind superboss-level enemies, because it's not fair to players who may not have the same experience or reflexes that veteran players like us have. And I think Nomura did that as a direct rebuttal to all the people who spent a year complaining about how easy KH3 turned out. So, I loved the data fights, but I have to take a point off for Nomura making vanilla gamers suffer for the sins of a loud minority.
In terms of story, it's apples and oranges for me. On the one hand, the story that was added in KH2FM was of very little consequence—most of it was just extra scenes teasing future titles (see, people, it happened before KH3 too!), and even then, these additions were few and far between. On the other hand, while ReMIND had a LOT more story, I felt a good amount of it was either really arduous, really confused, or really pointless. The first half of ReMIND when you're going through the Keyblade Graveyard again was criminally boring, and it's the very thing I was most concerned about when I saw trailer footage of us playing through the final battles all over again. Sure, some of the extra movesets were cool to play with, but the battles were robbed of all emotional investment because we've already gone through them, and all that was left was to go through the motions for a good few hours. The second half of ReMIND was better in that it was actually new content, but it had a lot of problems, namely that it made very little sense. I couldn't (and still can't) understand the deal with Kairi's heart being in Scala and also the Guardians' hearts. I think that plotline was handled very poorly. Limit Cut was also, narratively speaking, an insultingly blatant nothing burger. The ending of the episode brought forth a couple interesting insights into the upcoming adventure, but having to power through the gauntlet that is the XIII only to find out it didn't lead to ANYthing was quite a disappointment, and it just proves to me that the data fights would have been better placed in some dungeon in the base game where you don't have to fight them in order to get through the story. The Secret Episode was pretty sick, but it's an overall small part of ReMIND as a whole, and as atmospheric and tantalizing as it was, it doesn't really make up for the shoddy storytelling of the previous two segments.
In summation, I think the Osaka team were the real kings of this DLC. Nomura, on the other hand, was kind of a weak link, and just like Osaka came into their own and rectified all their past mistakes here, I'm hoping Nomura moving forward can do something about his own flaws and work on his writing, because it seems like it needs more and more work with each installment that comes out in this series.
In terms of story, ReMIND had WAY more than 2FM, but it wasn't well done. In terms of gameplay, 2FM had more I think (when you discount the Keyblade Graveyard retread), but ReMIND was MUCH better and more polished.
Frankly, the fact that we're even in a position to compare the two despite all flaws is a great indication of where this series can go moving on. I am ecstatic that we're at a point now where people are no longer looking at this game with cynical disappointment and regret, but with love and zealous joy. It makes me feel personally vindicated, as I've been one of the people saying that whole year between base 3 and ReMIND to have faith in the DLC, and clearly I was right to have that faith. Even though the DLC doesn't fix all of 3's errors, it's still a wonderful addition that justifies its $30 price tag.
 

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I thought I was the only person who hates Pete. He definitely helped to diminish Maleficent further.

I definitely think KH3 is superior to KH2 when it comes to gameplay.
 
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Ever since the critical mode patch, my only issue with KH3 has been it's story. Re Mind gave a game that already had really good combat, even better combat, but It didn't really add much to the narrative of Kh3 that we didn't already have from the base game.

In terms of final mixes and what they added overall to their base game counter parts I would rank them like this:

KH 2 FINAL MIX > KH 3 RE MIND > BBS FINAL MIX > KH 1 FINAL MIX
 

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Imo it was good but my answer will be No, and only because it was a dumb idea to make secret bosses level to be part of the main story when it should have been optional.
 

the red monster

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KH3 Re:Mind is pretty much better than KH2FM in every way.
After the update the combat got much better and made the main story more fun to play again.
guarding mid-air is the biggest bonus that KH3 have over KH2.
Data fights are also way more fun. each one got their own music with a remix, and new movesets that's not seen in the keyblade graveyard fights. unlike KH2 data fights where they re-use a lot of moves but just stronger.

as someone who couldn't care less about the FF characters, KH2 doesn't have really anything that tops KH3. IMO. only mid game climax and maybe original worlds being more explorable
 

Veritas7

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Wow, I didn't know there were so many KH3 fans. That's great!
 

Absent

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Wow, I didn't know there were so many KH3 fans. That's great!
Theres tons of fans for every game. For some reason people focus on the negative and assume that a game is hated. Every game has more fans than haters, and that’s on that, period.
 

Veritas7

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Theres tons of fans for every game. For some reason people focus on the negative and assume that a game is hated. Every game has more fans than haters, and that’s on that, period.
True, but I kept seeing, at least on Youtube, many people saying that KH3 was either not a good successor or far inferior to KH2. It's nice to see fans acknowledging it's just as good, if not better
 

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True, but I kept seeing, at least on Youtube, many people saying that KH3 was either not a good successor or far inferior to KH2. It's nice to see fans acknowledging it's just as good, if not better
It's really hard to gauge the overall reception of the game but on YT, KH3 is pretty much made fun of across the board or just generally not well liked in a lot of area of the gaming world I feel except by people who aren't already prominent KH YouTubers; especially amongst more well known people who kind of already had problems with KH to begin with like Cosmunaut Variey Hour or Frustrated Jacob and KH3 couldnt help itself but fall into its usual trappings.

I think there is a point where these people are a little too overly negative about the game but at the same time, KH3 has a lot of problems. Like, a lot of them. So I can't really blame them for feeling the way they feel. Still, I like KH3 for what it is. People can disagree with all they want but the problems it has are honestly no different then most of the games in the series but KH3 had the unique problem of tieing up all these previous plots in one big conclusion but since either Noruma didnt care or Disney was too strict (most likely both), all that was crammed into the final section of the game; basically writing themselves into a corner making plot points that generally made sense in theory. make no sense because it was all rushed and crammed together. It also didnt help that Re: Mind itself feels like something that should've been apart of the base game.

Point is though, like what you like. Despite the negativity. I still like KH and believe it still has a chance to turn things around story wise. And that shouldnt stop you either.

As far as Re: Mind itself. Gameplay wise, better then KH2FM by far. No question or debate

Content wise... I'm torned. I'm still salty there's no Olypmus Coliseum, the main attraction of that world; especially with the new battle system update. I just dont think the World gates completely make up for them. Scala Ad Calem is cool but I wish there was a bit more. It's not as explorable as Caven of Rememberance was at first, which had a lot of rooms and puzzles that I enjoy. But as far as the data battles and secret boss, KH3 beats it out the water.

Story wise, KH2FM was better because it added scenes that tied into future titles and added scenes in the base game that fleshed out the story a bit more. Re: Mind story felt like an add-on that should've already been in the base game and only giving us context to things we already knew besides Luxord and Yozora.
 

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Nope, there's some aspects that are better but overall it doesn't make the experience better than KH2fm. The base game for one is still unchanged and quite frankly i never want to go through the base game again, just the thought of going through nothing but Disney worlds until you reach endgame kills the experience for me and i already didn't like the endgame in the first place. Also not a fan of how the extra content isn't integrated naturally like kh2fm.
 

Blenderudit

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Also I still feel that some scenes are missing in the main game. Ex: when Marluxia puts Sora to sleep with no consequence on the main plot whatsoever even though the ost track clearly shows it was meant to be a nightmare sequence.
 
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