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Is XH even a Heartless?



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Nayru's Love

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Honestly, I'm finding it a lot easier to classify him as a floating heart. You'd think he'd be a Heartless since he has a Nobody, but I feel there's other ways to explain Xemnas' existence.

The original argument was that Nobodies were the result of Heartless rejecting bodies. This was made evident specifically with Kairi; despite her heart leaving her body, her body didn't form a Nobody. You could say it's because she didn't become a Heartless that rejected her body, but I think the important thing here is that her body didn't leave the RoL. I think that that's the important detail that determines the existence of a Nobody (besides having a strong heart, of course).

What I'm thinking is that XH didn't become a Heartless; rather, he somehow expelled his heart from his body (KEYBLADE?). He then became a floating heart while his body disappeared from the RoL, the latter becoming Xemnas.
 

KevVentus

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I'm still fuzzy on the distinction between Heartless as people's hearts consumed by darkness or the darkness personified after a heart is lost

I usually go with the former though

In which case, floating heart = heartless

Sora was technically a heartless from the end of KH to the beginning of KH2 wasn't he?
 

Nayru's Love

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In which case, floating heart = heartless

Not quite. Since Heartless are hearts overcome by darkness, they generally do not have sentience and act instinctively. For whatever reasons, Sora is the main exception. XH, on the other hand, retained both sentience and a humanoid body from the start.
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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Yes, agreed. Is XH even a heartless? Another thing of it too is that how does the XH still influence Riku after KH1? The XH is supposed to have been defeated, yet it somehow is appearing to Riku? You can say oh, it's ptsd, or bad flashbacks, or that it is just his psyche and the XH isn't actually real? Or r ya gna try and say that the XH that appears to Riku in Days+CoM is Terra goin in disguise to help his boy Riku out? Either way whatever it was affecting Riku was real, and if it is XH like we see, then that would kind of mean he's not actually a heartless. That niggee ain't even no pureblood.
 

JustSnilloc

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What I'm thinking is that XH didn't become a Heartless; rather, he somehow expelled his heart from his body (KEYBLADE?). He then became a floating heart while his body disappeared from the RoL, the latter becoming Xemnas.

Well that's the thing, the Keyblade has power of/over hearts... Since Xehanort was a Keyblade Master, he knew what he could do more than most anybody else (considering how far he was willing to go with experiments)

We all know that Xemnas is AX's Nobody, so that doesn't exactly work, but as far as floating hearts go...

Sora, Riku, Kairi and Vanitas have all existed of hearts with PPS's... Sora when he became a heartless, Riku when ASoD forced him out of his body, Kairi when we see her in front of DI's keyhole and Vanitas from the time he was "born". Projected Physical Shells are common among heartless, but rare among others... They still exist though, and being a "floating heart" with a "PPS" doesn't necessarily make you a heartless, nor does it necessarily mean that you have a Nobody


her body didn't leave the RoL. I think that that's the important detail that determines the existence of a Nobody

This is a critical detail that's important to the process, you could have the strongest heart ever, but without a body leaving the realm of light, there can be no nobody, ergo Riku and Ventus not creating Nobodies
 

blueheart

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I had never liked that KH2 had "confirmed" ASoD a "heartless". It sort of demeaned him as an enemy, just made him lesser.
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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Is it possible that the Ansem SoD we see torment Riku in CoM/RECoM is actually Terra? Idk I see people say that Terra ends up in Riku's heart, which could have only happened in KH1 when Riku was possessed by AnsemSoD. So then it's thought that Terra(maybe Eraqus?) stayed there with Riku. Since we all know that AnsemSoD was defeated, how does it exist still then in CoM? So that's my question.
 

Zul

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KH2 only claimed Xehanort was a Heartless from Sora's perspective and Jiminy's Journal.

Ansem SoD himself said in his reports "I should have become a heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation".

I think the "good guys" are misinformed about him, and heavily misinformed about Namine.
 

Sephiroth0812

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KH2 only claimed Xehanort was a Heartless from Sora's perspective and Jiminy's Journal.

Ansem SoD himself said in his reports "I should have become a heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation".

I think the "good guys" are misinformed about him, and heavily misinformed about Namine.

Good point.

And I think Mickey said something about "You defeated the heartless of that guy."
But Mickey isn't above being misinformed either.
 

sora364

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I had never liked that KH2 had "confirmed" ASoD a "heartless".


Ansem SoD himself said in his reports "I should have become a heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation".

Tetsuya Nomura is supposedly good friends with Hideo Kojima. Bold print explained.

Anyone who is familiar with the MGS franchise knows exactly what I'm talking about.
 

Hillboy

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Is it possible that the Ansem SoD we see torment Riku in CoM/RECoM is actually Terra? Idk I see people say that Terra ends up in Riku's heart, which could have only happened in KH1 when Riku was possessed by AnsemSoD. So then it's thought that Terra(maybe Eraqus?) stayed there with Riku. Since we all know that AnsemSoD was defeated, how does it exist still then in CoM? So that's my question.

The Ansem we see in COM was DiZ in disquise, not Terra. DiZ wanted Riku to make the desicion light or darkness
 

Genocide

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The Ansem we see in COM was DiZ in disquise, not Terra. DiZ wanted Riku to make the desicion light or darkness

Yes, but Riku did finally face ASoD inside him and beat ASoD to sleep for about a year.
 

Hillboy

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Yes, but Riku did finally face ASoD inside him and beat ASoD to sleep for about a year.

That was ASOD's darkness still inside Riku. He defeats the darkness that ASoD left inside him but it doesnt leave his body until ansem the wises machiene exploads
 

JustSnilloc

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That was ASOD's darkness still inside Riku. He defeats the darkness that ASoD left inside him but it doesnt leave his body until ansem the wises machiene exploads

Correct, that's what happened... Except take out the bolded parts, when ASoD expelled Riku, Riku temporarily existed only of a heart while ASoD was in controll of Riku's body/Soul... When Riku got his body/soul back after the defeat of ASoD, ASoD was still inside (and then insert what you said here)
 

Nayru's Love

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That was ASOD's darkness still inside Riku. He defeats the darkness that ASoD left inside him but it doesnt leave his body until ansem the wises machiene exploads

Between Riku's dual-wielding and being able to morph into XH, I'm more inclined to believe that XH, as a heart, was in Riku.
 

JustSnilloc

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Between Riku's dual-wielding and being able to morph into XH, I'm more inclined to believe that XH, as a heart, was in Riku.

That's what I've always thought too... Since heartless are essentially hearts drowned in darkness, nevertheless they're still hearts.
 

Nutari

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Ugh. I hate trying to figure this out. This is one of those things... I just dismiss it becuase I haven't gotten my hands on a working KH1 and haven't played it in God knows how long
 

Horizon's Knight

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Yes. The proof?

Ansem SoD has always had some sort of dark powers as a "Heartless", and Heartless are either darkness straight from the Heart (Pureblood Heartless) or darkness-iimprisoned Hearts (Emblem Heartless). Since Ansem SoD fully embraced his darkness with arms wide-opened, he ended up infusing his own heart with darkness instead, making him a hybrid of both the Pureblood and Emblem Heartless. So, Ansem SoD is indeed a Heartless, but only due to willingly excepting the darkness.
 

Nayru's Love

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Ansem SoD has always had some sort of dark powers as a "Heartless", and Heartless are either darkness straight from the Heart (Pureblood Heartless) or darkness-iimprisoned Hearts (Emblem Heartless). Since Ansem SoD fully embraced his darkness with arms wide-opened, he ended up infusing his own heart with darkness instead, making him a hybrid of both the Pureblood and Emblem Heartless. So, Ansem SoD is indeed a Heartless, but only due to willingly excepting the darkness.

You're mixing things up. Pureblood Heartless are still the actual, physical hearts, as we can see when Sora was revived. The hearts contained by Emblem Heartless are merely hearts that didn't turn into Pureblood Heartless, but were captured instead.

More importantly, you can still use the power of darkness even if you aren't a Heartless. MX and Terra are prime examples.
 

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In the pursuit of knowledge, Xehanort, at the time calling himself "Ansem", willingly gave his heart to the darkness, creating both his Heartless and his Nobody, Xemnas. His Heartless was able to retain its selfhood for uncertain reasons, though it was believed by the true Ansem that this was due to Xehanort's willing abandonment of his heart.[1]
He and legions of Heartless at his command continued his original self's pursuit of knowledge, believing it would be found in darkness, and stole countless hearts from both humans and worlds in search of this knowledge. But his ultimate goal was Kingdom Hearts, a supposed repository of tremendous power and knowledge. However, to access the heart of all worlds, he would need to open the Final Keyhole. For this, the Princesses of Heart were needed to complete the Keyhole. He also realized that the wielder of the legendary Keyblade needed to be found, for the Keyblade's ability to seal away the hearts of worlds from the preying Heartless could prove dangerous. - Source Wikia So the answer then is yes
 
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