I've got a couple of questions and some food for thought.

[ShailsTDSPT]

Sora and friends can't travel that far back in time because they didn't exist within the flow of time at that time.

Timeless River probably operates on an irrelevant form of time-traveling.

We can't just throw away the possibility that the Time Portal can take people to some time when they did not exist. It is Nomura we are talking about after all.

 

[Zak1403]

I think that Timeless River is more like the memories of Disney Castle trapped within the portal - hence why Sora and Co. could change the events. I wouldn't say this is time travel more like entering into a different form of the world trapped in a loop of memory.

As for the time travel that Ansem and YMX uses -
One thing that struck me was the fact that YMX said you can't change the events that occur in the furture. But wouldn't the events that will happen be destined to happan anyway? This is where time travel gets confusing - becuase the events from the time Ansem met with YMX were already mapped out. So no matter what happened the events that were destined to happan would find a way too.

About the requirements of time travel -
Its said that one needs to cast away their body to be able to transend the limits of time. This is pretty simple, Sora himself was a floating heart for all of CoM and KH2 up till the time he reconnected with his body (Roxas), so it wouldn't be that hard for YMX to become a floating heart in the same way Sora did. That's not to say that it happened in the same way, he would have needed a Princess of Heart (or some other form of light) to bring him back from heartless form - but it is quite posisble that YMX was able to cast away his body and become a floating heart without creating another heartless.

The way YMX is able to transport Ansem and Xemnas is also pretty simple. However what some said above - that YMX appear always along side another being of darkness - Ansem, Xemnas and Vanitas - is also not completly true. In the Symphony of Sorcery YMX appeared wihtout a dark being. Just something to think about...

 

[Nayru's Love]

We can't just throw away the possibility that the Time Portal can take people to some time when they did not exist. It is Nomura we are talking about after all.

Regardless, possibilities such as that are very improbable; whether or not you take them into consideration is up to you.

As for the time travel that Ansem and YMX uses -
One thing that struck me was the fact that YMX said you can't change the events that occur in the furture. But wouldn't the events that will happen be destined to happan anyway? This is where time travel gets confusing - becuase the events from the time Ansem met with YMX were already mapped out. So no matter what happened the events that were destined to happan would find a way too.

It's a matter of perspective. Perhaps the only way destiny can play out is if people time-travel.

About the requirements of time travel -
Its said that one needs to cast away their body to be able to transend the limits of time. This is pretty simple, Sora himself was a floating heart for all of CoM and KH2 up till the time he reconnected with his body (Roxas), so it wouldn't be that hard for YMX to become a floating heart in the same way Sora did. That's not to say that it happened in the same way, he would have needed a Princess of Heart (or some other form of light) to bring him back from heartless form - but it is quite posisble that YMX was able to cast away his body and become a floating heart without creating another heartless.

YMX acquired time-traveling powers from XH as opposed to the natural way of obtaining them, so I'm pretty sure that he didn't have to discard his body.

 

[Zak1403]

It's a matter of perspective. Perhaps the only way destiny can play out is if people time-travel.

Yes, this would be the way destiny has worked it self out to allow the events to happen.

YMX acquired time-traveling powers from XH as opposed to the natural way of obtaining them, so I'm pretty sure that he didn't have to discard his body.

Totally forgot that... Disregard everything I said, how ebmarrassing.

 

[State]

So wait, are you going to tell me that Master Xehanort is actually an altered Young Xehanort by his Heartless?

 

[Nayru's Love]

It wouldn't surprise me if YMX was also a seed of MX that gradually became...himself. In other words, Inceptionort.

 

[State]

Wait, wait, wait... Let me try to process this...
+ Heartlessnort traveled through time;
+ He told Youngnort he had time traveling powers;
+ He got to Masternort's time;
+ Got corrupted;
+ Returned back in time?

 

[Nayru's Love]

Wait, wait, wait... Let me try to process this...
+ Heartlessnort traveled through time;
+ He told Youngnort he had time traveling powers;
+ He got to Masternort's time;
+ Got corrupted;
+ Returned back in time?

Yeah, that's how I would imagine it. I think MX has done most, if not all, the seeding. The only exception I can imagine would be Saix, who was probably seeded by Xemnas.

 

[C.C.]

In summation;
Time-traveling works if you cast your body aside and become a floating heart like Ansem SoD.

Oooh that makes a lot of sense. So then the YX we fought in BBS was his floating heart that literally had no body.

I'm starting to comprehend this crazy story piece by piece

 

[billyzanesucks]

Oooh that makes a lot of sense. So then the YX we fought in BBS was his floating heart that literally had no body.

I'm starting to comprehend this crazy story piece by piece

No, he had a body. Nomura explained it. One only needs to give up their physical form once and they can pass that power to another version of their self.

 

[C.C.]

No, he had a body. Nomura explained it. One only needs to give up their physical form once and they can pass that power to another version of their self.

Oh ok I was thinking that every time he wanted to time travel he had to leave behind his physical form. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[ShardofTruth]

However, at the end, he returns to his own time. He already said before that once he'd return, he'd forget everything about what happened in KH 3D. However, the road he's destined to take will be carved in his heart (or something along those lines).

This is also a very interesting aspect of Nomura's time travel because it involves the memory concept of the games. If the so called chain of memories is broken not only the person that has these memories forgets about them but all people that share this memory. Remember that in KH2 the Hallow Bastion crew told Sora that they (and Kairi & Selphie) completely forgot about him (until his memories were restored)? Also "the end of Xion" in 358/2 Days eradicates/alters all memories that involved her.
Now if YMX "looses" his memories doesn't this mean that Sora, Riku and Mickey also forget about the encounters with him?

If someone can provide the time travel quotes from the game, that would be really helpful.

 

[aspenvenom619]

If Sora and Riku time travelled, why do they get to keep their memories

 

[Deleted member 34215]

This is also a very interesting aspect of Nomura's time travel because it involves the memory concept of the games. If the so called chain of memories is broken not only the person that has these memories forgets about them but all people that share this memory. Remember that in KH2 the Hallow Bastion crew told Sora that they (and Kairi & Selphie) completely forgot about him (until his memories were restored)? Also "the end of Xion" in 358/2 Days eradicates/alters all memories that involved her.
Now if YMX "looses" his memories doesn't this mean that Sora, Riku and Mickey also forget about the encounters with him?

If someone can provide the time travel quotes from the game, that would be really helpful.

edit: sorry, I went a bit overboard with the answer.. finishing the game made my head explode.


In CoM, Sora's memories where altered by Namine that changed the links in his chain of memories. That caused problems with everyone previously linked to Sora's memories.
Xion was made up of some of Sora's memories and when she returned to Sora, those original memories kinda "broke free" from the rest. Without a connection, people who knew her started to forget her.. I think. Or basically the new memories made by Xion weren't part of Sora's original memories, so they got sealed. In 3D, while in the dream version of TWTNW, Roxas kinda "unlocked" his memories? They were all inside Sora but were sealed because they weren't Sora's, so that's why he continued to be the "guy without a clue"
As for YMX, after he returns to his own time, the memories that get erased are only his own memories (except for the need to set all those events in motion). This could be probably because Sora and the others still know Xehanort through his many forms, so they still have a link to him?

 

[king_mickey rule]

Lots of probably's. In other words, it doesn't really make that much sense.

In my opinion, Nomura really has a lot of explaining to do. A LOT

I'm sure there's a solid explanation for all of this but it sure isn't clear when completing the game. I'm all for keeping some stuff open for theorizing. Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 did this in a really good way imo.

This game however.. Like the whole base of the story doesn't make sense to me and that's kinda frustrating. However, I do think Nomura left a lot of stuff deliberately open. I think he really knows where he's trying to go now with this series story-wise and that he wanted to make us think about the series as a whole now.

 

[Deleted member 34215]

I have some doubts about DDD, please let me know if I got something right.
- MX and even the people he uses as "seeds" can time-travel. Not only him and his other forms (Xemnas, Ansem SoD and his younger self).
- Isa and Braig came back to their original form and went to Where Nothing Gathers, or are they still Nobodies coming from the past? Isa still has his scar (X-shaped.. uhmm...) so maybe it's the same principle behind Axel's tatoo?
- At the end they all disappear because the time for their time-travel ability ran out? Braig said something about time running out, but then it means that every one of them was there via time-travel? Even MX ? (or maybe he scaddaddle too because he would end up alone)

 

[king_mickey rule]

I have some doubts about DDD, please let me know if I got something right.
- MX and even the people he uses as "seeds" can time-travel. Not only him and his other forms (Xemnas, Ansem SoD and his younger self).
- Isa and Braig came back to their original form and went to Where Nothing Gathers, or are they still Nobodies coming from the past? Isa still has his scar (X-shaped.. uhmm...) so maybe it's the same principle behind Axel's tatoo?
- At the end they all disappear because the time for their time-travel ability ran out? Braig said something about time running out, but then it means that every one of them was there via time-travel? Even MX ? (or maybe he scaddaddle too because he would end up alone)

Yeah, they all seem to be using time-travel and they used YX as their portal.

It is not known whether we saw Braig and Isa or Xigbar and Saix. Normally they should have returned to their human self but the journal seems to be referring to them as Xigbar and Saix.

Not sure about the last thing. It seems to me that time-travel has its limits as well. It's really another one of those vague things about time-travel in this game. MX does seem to be fading away in the same manner as the other ones. It's strange, that's for sure.

 

[iLeen]

Yeah, they all seem to be using time-travel and they used YX as their portal.

It is not known whether we saw Braig and Isa or Xigbar and Saix. Normally they should have returned to their human self but the journal seems to be referring to them as Xigbar and Saix.

As for the last question, I'm gonna rewatch that cutscene now.

I think Nomura said or hinted at in some interview that Braig and Isa are back, it's just that the Organization still refers to them as Xigbar and Saix, I'm guessing because they're still part of the Organization?

 

[king_mickey rule]

I think Nomura said or hinted at in some interview that Braig and Isa are back, it's just that the Organization still refers to them as Xigbar and Saix, I'm guessing because they're still part of the Organization?

Maybe so. But who's to say that the Xigbar and Saix we saw weren't the ones from KH 2? Or even before that?

 

[ShardofTruth]

- At the end they all disappear because the time for their time-travel ability ran out? Braig said something about time running out, but then it means that every one of them was there via time-travel? Even MX ?

Nomura hinted in the last interview with the Famitsu that not all 'Norts time traveled to that meeting, also Master Xehanort should be whole again and not be able to travel time (at least not without kidnapping Merlin).

In 3D, while in the dream version of TWTNW, Roxas kinda "unlocked" his memories? They were all inside Sora but were sealed because they weren't Sora's, so that's why he continued to be the "guy without a clue"
As for YMX, after he returns to his own time, the memories that get erased are only his own memories (except for the need to set all those events in motion).

I don't see how the effects of erasing (or "unlinking" which is also the case with YMX's memories, because it's stated by him that they will be still somewhere) could be different in some cases. The case of Roxas is also different, because he is practically a part Sora after the reuniting scene in KHII. Lea can still rembemer what Axel did for example.