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I've got a couple of questions and some food for thought.



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king_mickey rule

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I'm not sure if I got everything right from the story so I figured, why not ask you guys? I'm also gonna share my thoughts on some mysteries within the game.

First of all, time-travel.

Holy moly, I hate time-travel. It's an interesting concept but it always kupos with my mind, therefore I kinda hate it. The Kingdom Hearts version of time-travel is no different.

There are certain conditions that have to be met in order to be able to time-travel. Firstly, you need to leave your body behind. You cannot time-travel with a body. I guess everything non-body travels through time (meaning the consciousness (basically the Heart), spirit etc.). The other condition is that there has to be another version of yourself waiting in the time you want to travel to. While time-travelling, you can't change events that are destined to happen.

So yeah, there's time-travel 101 for you. These things raise quite a few questions though.

Now, I can see how Ansem SOD could time-travel. He didn't have a body to begin with so yeah, I guess that makes sense. However, YX could time-travel as well. How does he do it? I mean, I'm sure he can leave his body behind and travel through time but he appears in the Dream Worlds as YX. How can he keep his YX form (look and everything) if he's supposed to leave his body behind to time-travel in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

What intrigues me though is that whenever YX appears, someone else appears as well. Xemnas, Ansem SOD and Vanitas (although he had a more ghost-like appearance instead of a physical one) all appear alongside of YX. It goes without saying that Vanitas is also another Darkness (the color of his eyes tells us so much). With that said, could he be using them to travel through time?

But that raises another question, how did Xemnas and Ansem SOD ended up there? Just gonna leave at that since I already asked quite a few question. I hope someone can clear this up for me. Also, could someone tell me which parts of the game (other than the Mysterious Tower parts) take place in the real world and which are part of the dreams? I got a bit confused with that.

Now, another thing I'd like to talk about. The gathering of the 13 Darknesses. YX somehow contacted every different form of himself and said that he would return as a whole person at that time, on that place. In other words, they all time-travelled.

How Ansem SOD got there is a mystery to me. Clearly, he isn't the brown-robed figure so this is Xehanort's Heartless with a body (body and time-travel? Again, doesn't make sense).

For Xemnas however, I have a slight clue on how he got there. Remember the Room of Sleep? That's right, the room where Xemnas always goes and talks to himself... See what I did there? I think that is exactly what he does there, he talks to himself. I think the Room of Sleep is his way of travelling through time. Still raises the question on how he kept his Xemnas body but anyway. So, this would mean, the Xemnas we see in KH 3D is actually KH2 Xemnas.

Now, what I'm trying to go for here is that all of things just don't add up. Either the explanation seems incomplete or just not logical. It doens't make sense. It just doesn't.

But that reminded me of a certain someone saying to beware of the dreams. That they would do everything they can to make the person in the dream think it's reality. If Inception has thaught me one thing, then it's not to believe dreams. If you believe dreams, then bad shit is bound to happen.

What I think is that this game isn't so time-travel heavy as people might think. I think MX/YX/ w/e said this to throw off Sora. To make him more vurnerable. Once he believed that the dream was indeed reality and that he indeed time-travelled, his heart fell to Darkness. The Dream became his reality. And therefore, MX could use him as his new vessel.

Thoughts?
 

Ocelot60

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"He was granted the power to manipulate and travel through time and space by Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, which also grants him resistance to Stop spells." (Explains the boss fight)

Seemingly an odd way to explain how he breaks this barrier of time, but it appears he can time travel with his body, it appears he also gave this ability to every incarnation of Xehanort he found because basically at the very end they must have all time travelled to appear, although they don't actually seem immune to the stop spell which is very interesting... Raising further questions to how all the Xehanorts actually got there.

Also when Riku destroys the clock, that makes Young Xehanort disappear instantly doesn't it? So maybe that was his means to time travel or it granted him the ability.
 

king_mickey rule

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Doesn't that fall under 'altering the past'? I mean, giving your past self a newly acquired power? I think it's quite strange that they say that you can't change events that were destined to happen, but altering the past is okay ('cause clearly, if Ansem SOD didn't give it to YX, then YX wouldn't have had the time-travel powers in the first place).

I think there's more to this then what Nomura is revealing. I think he deliberately made it this complicated to set us on the wrong path. Like Xigbar (Braig?) said, the plan looks too perfect, that's why you never see it coming. It's too perfect. I think there's a reason why they question MX's 'perfect' plan.
 

Ocelot60

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Doesn't that fall under 'altering the past'? I mean, giving your past self a newly acquired power? I think it's quite strange that they say that you can't change events that were destined to happen, but altering the past is okay ('cause clearly, if Ansem SOD didn't give it to YX, then YX wouldn't have had the time-travel powers in the first place).

I think there's more to this then what Nomura is revealing. I think he deliberately made it this complicated to set us on the wrong path. Like Xigbar (Braig?) said, the plan looks too perfect, that's why you never see it coming. It's too perfect. I think there's a reason why they question MX's 'perfect' plan.
Hmm, it's clear that the past was changed because YX obviously isn't in his present anymore and he isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing, but Xehanort still exists and the future Xehanorts still remain, which means that YX, like he said; must go back to his time at some point, get rid of all his memories and live his entire life. Which means that Xehanort will continue to exist and at the same time YX can go around to different points of time cleverly, never under the threat that every incarnation of Xehanort would cease to exist. (Although the death of YX would ultimately make every Xehanort incarnation disappear.)

It seems that every event that has occurred in every Kingdom Hearts game has finally been linked together to create something completely new, which is why the plan seems to perfect, it's like the writers planned this ever since they started making Kingdom Hearts!
 

billyzanesucks

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Nomura: First off, when Young Xehanort made contact with the Brown Robed Figure, that is to say, the Xehanort who called himself Ansem, his abilities were transferred to him. As a result of Master Xehanort tossing his physical body, he was able to exceed time, and this power was carried into the Brown Robed Figure. Thus when Young Xehanort made contact with him, he gained this power. Possessing this power. Young Xehanort functioned as a “portal”, summoning Xemnas and Ansem each time they appeared. That’s why Young Xehanort was there whenever they appeared. Additionally, when Sora and Riku dropped into the worlds of sleep, simultaneously Young Xehanort himself goes into the world of sleep.

Hope this helps .
 

aspenvenom619

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Hope this helps .

See I'm fine and dandy with that explanation. In no where did riku and sora mentioned to time travel, so adding that on when the game is so vague about it is unnecessary. They could have just left it as Xehanort hijacking their dreams and manipulating them.

It should also be said that KH2 completely breaks these rules about time travel. Pete travels back in time without losing his body and directly affects the future until Sora and co. set it right again.
 

ShardofTruth

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So wait, the brown robed figure (the Xehanort that calls himself Ansem) is actually the Heartless of Master Xehanort (created when he left his body behind to take over Terra's in BBS) and not Terra-Xehanort's (possible created during the experiment before the events of KH)?
 

billyzanesucks

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So wait, the brown robed figure (the Xehanort that calls himself Ansem) is actually the Heartless of Master Xehanort (created when he left his body behind to take over Terra's in BBS) and not Terra-Xehanort's (possible created during the experiment before the events of KH)?
It is Terra-Xehanort's Heartless.
 

aspenvenom619

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So wait, the brown robed figure (the Xehanort that calls himself Ansem) is actually the Heartless of Master Xehanort (created when he left his body behind to take over Terra's in BBS) and not Terra-Xehanort's (possible created during the experiment before the events of KH)?

No it's Terranort's. In fact it seems that one of the main reasons he became a heartless is to gain this ability. Ansem then of course eventually possesses Riku, which allows him to take physical form and thus Ansem Seeker of Darkness is born. Which of course begs the question on why Riku doesn't have a heartless, but I digress
 

ShardofTruth

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Then I don't get this part of the Nomura quote:
As a result of Master Xehanort tossing his physical body, he was able to exceed time, and this power was carried into the Brown Robed Figure.
As far as I remember Master Xehanort only tossed his physicial body at the end of BBS. Because he had no body (actually he had Terra's) he was able to exceed time and this "power" was transfered to the Brown Robed Figure (that still had not possessed Riku). How is this possible or even logical?
Also it is never really stated what the Brown Robe really is. A wandering heart, a Heartless without a body and yet in KH3D the wording of the journal stays mysterious:
A mysterious man whose identity is masked by a brown robe.
Sora encountered him in the Destiny Islands right before his first journey began. Riku has seen him as well, though neither of them ever found out for certain who he was.
I'm also wondering if the strapping on the robe is a Recusant's Sigil.
 

billyzanesucks

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Then I don't get this part of the Nomura quote:
As far as I remember Master Xehanort only tossed his physicial body at the end of BBS. Because he had no body (actually he had Terra's) he was able to exceed time and this "power" was transfered to the Brown Robed Figure (that still had not possessed Riku). How is this possible or even logical?
He threw away Terra's body, which had practically become his own.
Also it is never really stated what the Brown Robe really is.
Young Xehanort: That is Xehanort, reduced to just a heart.
 

Nayru's Love

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Then I don't get this part of the Nomura quote:
As far as I remember Master Xehanort only tossed his physicial body at the end of BBS. Because he had no body (actually he had Terra's) he was able to exceed time and this "power" was transfered to the Brown Robed Figure (that still had not possessed Riku). How is this possible or even logical?

I understand where you're coming from; honestly, it bothers me, too. XH (Xehanort's Heartless, also known as Brown Robed Figure) should have obtained time-traveling powers on his own, not as a result of MX leaving his first body.

Also it is never really stated what the Brown Robe really is.

Apprentice Xehanort's floating heart.
 

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So yeah, there's time-travel 101 for you. These things raise quite a few questions though.
Okay, let's discuss things from that basis.

He didn't have a body to begin with so yeah, I guess that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense.

How does he do it?
He left his body behind and became another Ansem SoD and Sora; a floating heart. I'm guessing that, a bodyless heart projects its appearance somehow.

could he be using them to travel through time?
It's a plausible idea, but I'm more inclined to think that he just left his body behind and is a floating heart. :v

how did Xemnas and Ansem SOD ended up there?
In the Realm of Sleep? I'm guessing Xemnas must have used the Chamber of Repose, seeing as how we know next to little about it (besides it unlocking his memories).

How Ansem SOD got there is a mystery to me. Clearly, he isn't the brown-robed figure so this is Xehanort's Heartless with a body (body and time-travel? Again, doesn't make sense).
It makes sense of you just think he's just a floating heart instead of body+soul+heart. :v

For Xemnas however, I have a slight clue on how he got there. Remember the Room of Sleep? That's right, the room where Xemnas always goes and talks to himself... See what I did there? I think that is exactly what he does there, he talks to himself. I think the Room of Sleep is his way of travelling through time. Still raises the question on how he kept his Xemnas body but anyway. So, this would mean, the Xemnas we see in KH 3D is actually KH2 Xemnas.
Uh... I think the Chamber of Repose is just a portal he designed that leads him to the Realm of Dreams. :v

In summation;
Time-traveling works if you cast your body aside and become a floating heart like Ansem SoD.
 

king_mickey rule

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Wouldn't becoming a floating heart mean that a Heartless is created? I mean, Xehanort had to become a Heartless in order to gain that power. That would make things really complicated so that's why I think this isn't the case. However, people have already said that Nomura said himself how YX got the power and that he acted as a portal for Xemnas etc.

Still doesn't make sense how they can keep their body. That doesn't make sense to me no matter what. If you leave your body behind in order to tavel through time, then in who's body do you end up?
 

ShailsTDSPT

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My guess is there is 2 kinds of time-travel.

1. The one Ansem SoD used, discarding his body.
2. The one Young Xehanort got, which is probably creating a portal, similar to the corridors of darkness, through time itself. The method YX uses doesn't require for the body to be discarded and allows other people to pass through it. Explains why Xemnas traveled in time - YX used a Time Portal and Xemnas simply went through it. Same for other darknesses.
 

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Wouldn't becoming a floating heart mean that a Heartless is created?
We're talking about individuals as powerful as Master Xehanort himself. When he willingly pushed his heart out of his body, the same didn't become a Nobody nor did his heart succumb to darkness. And with how as special as a scenario time traveling is, exceptions could be made with the basic creation rules of Heartless and Nobody creation (you're entering on the same level of time, for God's sake).

Xehanort had to become a Heartless in order to gain that power.
Not necessarily. We don't know if Xehanort already had that power and just recently discovered it, for all we know.

If you leave your body behind in order to tavel through time, then in who's body do you end up?
Like I said; a floating heart could be an exception to this rule.
 

king_mickey rule

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My guess is there is 2 kinds of time-travel.

1. The one Ansem SoD used, discarding his body.
2. The one Young Xehanort got, which is probably creating a portal, similar to the corridors of darkness, through time itself. The method YX uses doesn't require for the body to be discarded and allows other people to pass through it. Explains why Xemnas traveled in time - YX used a Time Portal and Xemnas simply went through it. Same for other darknesses.

This actually makes sense. Same could be said about the doors in KH2 to go to Timeless rivers. Were they too Portals?

Also, another interesting thing I've noticed. You see YX doing all these things in KH 3D. However, at the end, he returns to his own time. He already said before that once he'd return, he'd forget everything about what happened in KH 3D. However, the road he's destined to take will be carved in his heart (or something along those lines). In a way, you could say that meeting Ansem SOD and the events of KH 3D made him the Xehanort we know (Old MX).

Now what is interesting about all this is the first scene of BBS. It shows YX saying 'this world is just too small'. I'd like to believe that that's the exact moment he returned to his own world. The events from KH 3D just happened, he returned to his own time and feels like there's more out there then just his world and sets out to investigate.

Just an interesting thought.
 

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Well, the secret ending does show Young Xehanort just like in BbS so the meeting with Ansem IS what makes him the Geezernort we all know and hate. And I never thought about the timeless river... The thing is in there you COULD afect the future, depending on what you did (anyone remember Donald?) so I guess the whole "You can't change what is destined to happen." thing is another one of MX's excuses like "Destiny is never left to chance." Maybe he knows that if Sora & Co. think they can't travel back in time to defeat the less experienced Xehanort back then, then they will not even try to time travel. We are speaking about Xehanort here. He probably saw in his little crystal ball that they would defeat them in the past and made his younger self say that lie.
 

Nayru's Love

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Well, the secret ending does show Young Xehanort just like in BbS so the meeting with Ansem IS what makes him the Geezernort we all know and hate. And I never thought about the timeless river... The thing is in there you COULD afect the future, depending on what you did (anyone remember Donald?) so I guess the whole "You can't change what is destined to happen." thing is another one of MX's excuses like "Destiny is never left to chance." Maybe he knows that if Sora & Co. think they can't travel back in time to defeat the less experienced Xehanort back then, then they will not even try to time travel. We are speaking about Xehanort here. He probably saw in his little crystal ball that they would defeat them in the past and made his younger self say that lie.

Sora and friends can't travel that far back in time because they didn't exist within the flow of time at that time.

Timeless River probably operates on an irrelevant form of time-traveling.
 
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