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It only just hit me that Xaldin may have been a casualty of that last minute decision to revive Roxas and Xion. We all thought it was weird that a character like him who made such a strong impression was suddenly relegated to be a silent bystander, especially when Vexen, who was in a coma alongside him in DDD, was brought on board to the True Organization. Given that Xaldin also has a chess piece in KH3, it seems like the plan was to bring both of them back into the fray. Last minute changes would have led to his role being severely cut, only they forgot or didn't have time to swap out his piece from all those cutscenes.
 
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Face My Fears

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It only just hit me that Xaldin may have been a casualty of that last minute decision to revive Roxas and Xion. Admittedly I am basing this solely on the chess pieces lol. Xaldin's piece is used in the game, so we know he at one point was supposed to be a member of the True Organization XIII but wound up getting his role severely cut and relegated to a silent background character. RAX's pieces, however, were all absent and only used years later for merchandising.
When was Xaldin's piece used? I don't think I saw it in KH3.

I'm pretty sure the same way people got pissed that Dilan and Aeleus were present in KH3, they would get pissed if Xaldin and Lexaeus were used over Roxas and Xion.

Personally, I was hoping for DISNEY or Final Fantasy characters to be the last darknesses instead of rehash Organization.

Anyway, speaking of the 20th Anniversary Event... did they ever say when they were going to release the footage of the event? Is there a confirmed date?
 

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When was Xaldin's piece used? I don't think I saw it in KH3.
I'm too lazy to take my own screenshot so here's someone's pic from Reddit (Xaldin's piece is #4):

mhf89grdmzp11.png

I'm pretty sure the same way people got pissed that Dilan and Aeleus were present in KH3, they would get pissed if Xaldin and Lexaeus were used over Roxas and Xion.

That's not what I'm saying at all? There is no scenario in which Roxas and Xion would be absent from KH3, but their roles would have differed from the final product based on how the rest of the story and characters were written. I'm proposing that the decision to revive these characters, really just Xion in particular, meant that she now needed a spot in the Organization to accomplish that. Whatever their reasons were, they decided they could not keep all of the members, so someone had to be kicked out in order for Xion to take their place. Xaldin may have been the unfortunate casualty of that decision.

Aeleus settled in nicely in his new role among the support cast as of DDD, so this really has nothing to do with him, or Roxas for that matter as he has a silver piece and likely wouldn't have impacted any decisions surrounding the Org.

Personally, I was hoping for DISNEY or Final Fantasy characters to be the last darknesses instead of rehash Organization.

Anyway, speaking of the 20th Anniversary Event... did they ever say when they were going to release the footage of the event? Is there a confirmed date?

I don't think they've even acknowledged it since the initial announcement lol
 
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Face My Fears

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I'm too lazy to take my own screenshot so here's someone's pic from Reddit (Xaldin's piece is #4):

mhf89grdmzp11.png



That's not what I'm saying at all? There is no scenario in which Roxas and Xion would be absent from KH3, but their roles would have differed from the final product based on how the rest of the story and characters were written. I'm proposing that the decision to revive these characters, really just Xion in particular, meant that she now needed a spot in the Organization to accomplish that. Whatever their reasons were, they decided they could not keep all of the members, so someone had to be kicked out in order for Xion to take their place. Xaldin may have been the unfortunate casualty of that decision.

Aeleus settled in nicely in his new role among the support cast as of DDD, so this really has nothing to do with him, or Roxas for that matter as he has a silver piece and likely wouldn't have impacted any decisions surrounding the Org.



I don't think they've even acknowledged it since the initial announcement lol
Well I guess from that screenshot it is Xaldin... but he wasn't necessarily the one that got kicked. There's literally Vexen and Demyx as "reserve members" that are actually voiced in KH3. It's odd that Xaldin had a piece, then was reduced to nothing, when it might have been easier to just use Vexen or Demyx as placeholders.

Although, I suppose Vexen/Demyx were always planned to have their redemption storyline, so Nomura would have known he would never use them.
 

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Well I guess from that screenshot it is Xaldin... but he wasn't necessarily the one that got kicked. There's literally Vexen and Demyx as "reserve members" that are actually voiced in KH3. It's odd that Xaldin had a piece, then was reduced to nothing, when it might have been easier to just use Vexen or Demyx as placeholders.

Although, I suppose Vexen/Demyx were always planned to have their redemption storyline, so Nomura would have known he would never use them.
We know for a fact that that piece corresponds to Xaldin since it's on the store listing for the irl chess board on SE's website. The screenshot is just to prove it's in the game.

Yes, I did consider it odd to boot someone out when they had already reserve members. That's why I mentioned they might have had reasons for not wanting to add any more to the roster. We'll never know though lol

Ngl there's little basis for all this but randomly remembering the discrepancy in chess pieces got me thinking.
 

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I agree that Xaldin likely was scrapped from the group. I'm not going to pretend he was a character I really cared about, but he fits what Xehanort looks for in a vessel and I'm shocked he was ultimately not chosen, not even for backup. But I don't wanna put the blame just on Roxas and Xion, or in this case Xion. Because for what the original 13 Seekers of Darkness was setting up, she fits.

Young Xehanort wanted Roxas or Sora for that 13 spot. He didn't get either of them. Xion was made specifically to replace Roxas/Sora. She's the plan C to their plans A and B. She can use the Kingdom Key and copy their powers. Thematically she is the Sora/Roxas replacement. They just did a sloppy job of her as a seeker unlike Dark Riku's replica.

I'll say this forever, but the characters that didn't fit were Marluxia, Larxene, and to a lesser extent Demyx. Adding them completely goes against what Xemnas said in DDD, even with the Union X backstories, which is another can of worms.

Still, Xion likely did bump off Xaldin. Sucks for him, but I got Data Xion in ReMind which is better then any Xaldin fight previously so...I wouldn't trade. But could you imagine if Xaldin was the 13th vessel? All that buildup for a Sora replacement and it's Xaldin? You gotta admit that would be hilarious trying to make a big deal out of Xaldin being number 13, I kinda want to see a "what if" scenario of it now.
 

Face My Fears

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I agree that Xaldin likely was scrapped from the group. I'm not going to pretend he was a character I really cared about, but he fits what Xehanort looks for in a vessel and I'm shocked he was ultimately not chosen, not even for backup. But I don't wanna put the blame just on Roxas and Xion, or in this case Xion. Because for what the original 13 Seekers of Darkness was setting up, she fits.

Young Xehanort wanted Roxas or Sora for that 13 spot. He didn't get either of them. Xion was made specifically to replace Roxas/Sora. She's the plan C to their plans A and B. She can use the Kingdom Key and copy their powers. Thematically she is the Sora/Roxas replacement. They just did a sloppy job of her as a seeker unlike Dark Riku's replica.

I'll say this forever, but the characters that didn't fit were Marluxia, Larxene, and to a lesser extent Demyx. Adding them completely goes against what Xemnas said in DDD, even with the Union X backstories, which is another can of worms.

Still, Xion likely did bump off Xaldin. Sucks for him, but I got Data Xion in ReMind which is better then any Xaldin fight previously so...I wouldn't trade. But could you imagine if Xaldin was the 13th vessel? All that buildup for a Sora replacement and it's Xaldin? You gotta admit that would be hilarious trying to make a big deal out of Xaldin being number 13, I kinda want to see a "what if" scenario of it now.
They could have packaged it as Vanitas as the 13th member. But Xion worked much better and her return resulted in a godly boss fight and theme... and also Xion is queen.

I can't even imagine what DISNEY world Xaldin would fit in. You're right, Xaldin works way better than Marluxia and Larxene. Xemnas was pissed off about traitors and he brings back the top ones? I'm HOPING that there's an explanation in KH4. Marluxia, Larxene, Luxord (and probably Demyx) will have ties to Quadratum/The Foretellers somehow, which will explain why Master Xehanort brought them back. I would love to see the non-Xehanort clone choices being recommendations from Xigbar, who was trying to help the Master of Masters with some plan.
 

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If Xion wasn't originally planned to be in the new Organization, then Repliku probably wasn't either. When Xehanort decided to bring back replicas, wouldn't he start with the successful one instead of the failure? Also, story-wise, isn't the main purpose of Repliku to provide a replica body for Naminé? Why would she be returning if Roxas and Xion aren't? This means there would have been two members who got booted/sidelined to make room for the replicas, one being Xaldin and the other probably Vexen.

The chess piece was probably left in intentionally, because they didn't want to put Xion on the dark side.

Xemnas was pissed off about traitors and he brings back the top ones?
I think Xehanort wanted as many of his vessels as possible to be keyblade wielders, and prioritized that over past loyalty. This makes sense, because his plan was to start a Keyblade War.

I would love to see the non-Xehanort clone choices being recommendations from Xigbar, who was trying to help the Master of Masters with some plan.
More like pretending to help the MoM while actually doing his own thing. But otherwise this is a good point. It seems clear to me that Luxu originally brought those two into the organization because he knew that they would cause disorder within it.
 

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They could have packaged it as Vanitas as the 13th member. But Xion worked much better and her return resulted in a godly boss fight and theme... and also Xion is queen.

I can't even imagine what DISNEY world Xaldin would fit in. You're right, Xaldin works way better than Marluxia and Larxene. Xemnas was pissed off about traitors and he brings back the top ones? I'm HOPING that there's an explanation in KH4. Marluxia, Larxene, Luxord (and probably Demyx) will have ties to Quadratum/The Foretellers somehow, which will explain why Master Xehanort brought them back. I would love to see the non-Xehanort clone choices being recommendations from Xigbar, who was trying to help the Master of Masters with some plan.
Honestly I'm surprised Vanitas ranked so low in the Seekers. Given his association with Master Xehanort, he should have been the first non-Xehanort member selected with Xigbar. It felt like the 13th member was suppose to be a shock member and a former hero, given the former choices were Riku, Roxas, and Sora (this makes me wonder when Dark Riku was selected). That would make sense why they would be last to join. Now granted by the time KH3 happens it's not a shock moment but a sloppy rushed one with very little attention to how it happened.

Terra could have worked since they already had the 13 line during the Terranort scene, but Master Xehanort already said they had him in DDD, so timeline wise he couldn't be the one to replace Sora. Given all the Union X tie ins, I'm somewhat surprised number 13 wasn't Ephemer or Strelitzia.

As for why members 9-12 were selected. Xemnas said it was for their "ancient Keyblade legacy" I would have been less critical of it if he had some control over them, but they have full free will to backstab him if they so choose.

If Xion wasn't originally planned to be in the new Organization, then Repliku probably wasn't either. When Xehanort decided to bring back replicas, wouldn't he start with the successful one instead of the failure? Also, story-wise, isn't the main purpose of Repliku to provide a replica body for Naminé? Why would she be returning if Roxas and Xion aren't? This means there would have been two members who got booted/sidelined to make room for the replicas, one being Xaldin and the other probably Vexen.

The chess piece was probably left in intentionally, because they didn't want to put Xion on the dark side.


I think Xehanort wanted as many of his vessels as possible to be keyblade wielders, and prioritized that over past loyalty. This makes sense, because his plan was to start a Keyblade War.


More like pretending to help the MoM while actually doing his own thing. But otherwise this is a good point. It seems clear to me that Luxu originally brought those two into the organization because he knew that they would cause disorder within it.
Dark Riku didn't have to be Riku Replica. They could have used time traveled Riku-Ansem. I don't think Nomura knew who the 13 Seekers were going to be when he came up with the concept. Xaldin and Vexen were both probably options and make more sense then the traitors, especially in the case of Vexen. But they were clearly not finalized which is why they are on bed rest in DDD, unlike obvious choices Xigbar and Saix. I think they were purposely keeping certain slots in the 13 Seekers open in case they wanted to revive a Roxas and Xion, and certain members were placeholders. Ironically we ended up with 15 total members and 12 Replicas. We'll probably never know for sure, all we can do is speculate.
 
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Honestly I feel like Xion must have been planned or at least under strong consideration from early on, even if her inclusion wasn't always guaranteed. The main reason I think this is that the "Real" Organisation 13, seems to largely consist out of Final or Major bosses from previous entries.

Ansem (KH1, Riku: CoM), Marluxia (Sora: CoM), Xemnas (KH1, Sora: DDD), Xigbar/Braig (Aqua: BBS), Master Xehanort (Terra: BBS), Terranort (Terra & Final Ep: BBS), Vanitas (Aqua & Ven: BBS), Young Xehanort (DDD) and Dark Riku as an enemy Riku stand in (KH1, Coded, Days).

Xion not being included would have made her the odd one out. I mean technically with Re:Coded, there'd have also been an argument for there to be a Roxas in the line up, which kinda tracks with him being the original 13th candidate.

Saix, Larxene and Luxord are kind of outliers, though all of them are part of the final Boss "rush" of previous games. Okay with Larxene it's a bit of a stretch...
 

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Honestly I feel like Xion must have been planned or at least under strong consideration from early on, even if her inclusion wasn't always guaranteed. The main reason I think this is that the "Real" Organisation 13, seems to largely consist out of Final or Major bosses from previous entries.

Ansem (KH1, Riku: CoM), Marluxia (Sora: CoM), Xemnas (KH1, Sora: DDD), Xigbar/Braig (Aqua: BBS), Master Xehanort (Terra: BBS), Terranort (Terra & Final Ep: BBS), Vanitas (Aqua & Ven: BBS), Young Xehanort (DDD) and Dark Riku as an enemy Riku stand in (KH1, Coded, Days).

Xion not being included would have made her the odd one out. I mean technically with Re:Coded, there'd have also been an argument for there to be a Roxas in the line up, which kinda tracks with him being the original 13th candidate.

Saix, Larxene and Luxord are kind of outliers, though all of them are part of the final Boss "rush" of previous games. Okay with Larxene it's a bit of a stretch...
If you don't count the Axel rematch in CoM, Larxene is the penultimate boss of CoM before Marluxia just like how Saïx is the last boss you fight before Xemnas and Xion in KH2 and Days respectively.
 

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It only just hit me that Xaldin may have been a casualty of that last minute decision to revive Roxas and Xion. We all thought it was weird that a character like him who made such a strong impression was suddenly relegated to be a silent bystander, especially when Vexen, who was in a coma alongside him in DDD, was brought on board to the True Organization. Given that Xaldin also has a chess piece in KH3, it seems like the plan was to bring both of them back into the fray. Last minute changes would have led to his role being severely cut, only they forgot or didn't have time to swap out his piece from all those cutscenes.
I was expecting him to be a reserve for The Seekers of Darkness and I'm dissapointed that never ended up happening. After all, he was Number III in the original Organization XIII.

Hopefully he has a role in the future of Kingdom Hearts. The Kingdom Hearts III Ultimatum for Xaldin does give him an interesting arc to explore should the series decide to revisit the character.
 

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If Xion wasn't originally planned to be in the new Organization, then Repliku probably wasn't either. When Xehanort decided to bring back replicas, wouldn't he start with the successful one instead of the failure? Also, story-wise, isn't the main purpose of Repliku to provide a replica body for Naminé? Why would she be returning if Roxas and Xion aren't? This means there would have been two members who got booted/sidelined to make room for the replicas, one being Xaldin and the other probably Vexen.

The chess piece was probably left in intentionally, because they didn't want to put Xion on the dark side.


I think Xehanort wanted as many of his vessels as possible to be keyblade wielders, and prioritized that over past loyalty. This makes sense, because his plan was to start a Keyblade War.


More like pretending to help the MoM while actually doing his own thing. But otherwise this is a good point. It seems clear to me that Luxu originally brought those two into the organization because he knew that they would cause disorder within it.
Isn't Luxu working for the Master of Masters or is he going to turn on him?

"Keyblade War" apparently didn't need keyblades lol. All he needed to summon Kingdom Hearts were the 13 darknesses and 7 lights, so imagine if he went the route of the Organization vs. The Princesses of Heart - no keyblades involved lol.

I feel like Xion was planned in one way or another. It may not have been the Xion in Sora's heart, but another attempt at making a Sora replica. If anything, maybe they could have gone with a straight up Sora replica. It would have been an interesting pay off for their research in Toy Box and San Fransokyo. If the Organization learned how to create a heart from data, then they could have just used "Data-Sora" as the basis for the replica. It would have been a nice call back to re:CODED which I think was the only game that didn't get a direct reference in some form.
 

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The Darkubes have the Bug Blox pattern on them, though this is not directly pointed out and I'm not sure exactly what it means.
 

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If Xion wasn't originally planned to be in the new Organization, then Repliku probably wasn't either. When Xehanort decided to bring back replicas, wouldn't he start with the successful one instead of the failure? Also, story-wise, isn't the main purpose of Repliku to provide a replica body for Naminé? Why would she be returning if Roxas and Xion aren't? This means there would have been two members who got booted/sidelined to make room for the replicas, one being Xaldin and the other probably Vexen.
I mean, yeah, that's the idea. He doesn't have a chess piece in the game either. His, along with RAX's, seem to only have been made for the irl chess board, since they are all absent from the Ultimania concept art.
Honestly I'm surprised Vanitas ranked so low in the Seekers. Given his association with Master Xehanort, he should have been the first non-Xehanort member selected with Xigbar.
Is this based on how the members are arranged in Limit Cut? The Character Files has side-by-side lists of both Organizations, and I find the way Xehanort's is organized to be an accurate reflection of the members' standings:

No.1 XemnasNo.9 DemyxMaster XehanortLuxord
No.2 XigbarNo.10 LuxordYoung XehanortMarluxia
No.3 XaldinNo.11 MarluxiaTerra-XehanortLarxene
No.4 VexenNo.12 LarxeneAnsemDark Riku
No.5 LexaeusNo.13 RoxasXemnasXion
No.6 ZexionNo.i XionVanitas(Bench) Vexen
No.7 SaixXigbar(Bench) Demyx
No.8 AxelSaix
 

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Isn't Luxu working for the Master of Masters or is he going to turn on him?
Luxu is the virus and has been doing his own things already. He restored Strelitzia, and saved Subject X a.k.a. Skuld from becoming a member of Organization XIII. His role is to observe, he is not supposed to do stuff like this.

I think they share a goal (protecting light, opposing darkness), but disagree about the means for achieving it. I believe this to be about determinism vs. freedom, with the MoM representing the former and Luxu the latter.

"Keyblade War" apparently didn't need keyblades lol. All he needed to summon Kingdom Hearts were the 13 darknesses and 7 lights, so imagine if he went the route of the Organization vs. The Princesses of Heart - no keyblades involved lol.
Yet the only unquestionably non-wielder participant in the war was Saïx. There are some nitpicks (Luxord hasn't yet been confirmed to be a wielder, but is likely to be one; Xehanort doesn't know that Xigbar is one; Repliku is a borderline case), but it looks like Xehanort really was maximizing the number of wielders. Also, why don't Donald and Goofy count as lights? Isn't it because they are not wielders?

It seems keyblades aren't strictly required, but having them is preferred, because they somehow make things easier.
 

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Honestly I feel like Xion must have been planned or at least under strong consideration from early on, even if her inclusion wasn't always guaranteed. The main reason I think this is that the "Real" Organisation 13, seems to largely consist out of Final or Major bosses from previous entries.

Ansem (KH1, Riku: CoM), Marluxia (Sora: CoM), Xemnas (KH1, Sora: DDD), Xigbar/Braig (Aqua: BBS), Master Xehanort (Terra: BBS), Terranort (Terra & Final Ep: BBS), Vanitas (Aqua & Ven: BBS), Young Xehanort (DDD) and Dark Riku as an enemy Riku stand in (KH1, Coded, Days).

Xion not being included would have made her the odd one out. I mean technically with Re:Coded, there'd have also been an argument for there to be a Roxas in the line up, which kinda tracks with him being the original 13th candidate.

Saix, Larxene and Luxord are kind of outliers, though all of them are part of the final Boss "rush" of previous games. Okay with Larxene it's a bit of a stretch...
It wasn't until ReMind that I truly noticed they had the major bosses of all the previous KH games as the Data Organization. I don't know if that was planned or if it was just a coincidence but it worked out for all the remix boss themes they used.

I feel like Xion was planned in one way or another. It may not have been the Xion in Sora's heart, but another attempt at making a Sora replica. If anything, maybe they could have gone with a straight up Sora replica. It would have been an interesting pay off for their research in Toy Box and San Fransokyo. If the Organization learned how to create a heart from data, then they could have just used "Data-Sora" as the basis for the replica. It would have been a nice call back to re:CODED which I think was the only game that didn't get a direct reference in some form.
Going into KH3 that what I was thinking too. That it wasn't going to be regular Xion they remade but a Xion Mark 2 that is barely associated with the real one, and would not look like a gloomy Kairi. Basically what Xemnas was trying to create in the first place. The research in Toy Box and San Fransokyo did get me hyped for what a "Dark" Xion would look like. Ironically they still kinda made one with the Xehanort Replica that uses the Kingdom Key in Scala. Or is it Xion's Sham one? I don't know lol.

I mean, yeah, that's the idea. He doesn't have a chess piece in the game either. His, along with RAX's, seem to only have been made for the irl chess board, since they are all absent from the Ultimania concept art.

Is this based on how the members are arranged in Limit Cut? The Character Files has side-by-side lists of both Organizations, and I find the way Xehanort's is organized to be an accurate reflection of the members' standings:

No.1 XemnasNo.9 DemyxMaster XehanortLuxord
No.2 XigbarNo.10 LuxordYoung XehanortMarluxia
No.3 XaldinNo.11 MarluxiaTerra-XehanortLarxene
No.4 VexenNo.12 LarxeneAnsemDark Riku
No.5 LexaeusNo.13 RoxasXemnasXion
No.6 ZexionNo.i XionVanitas(Bench) Vexen
No.7 SaixXigbar(Bench) Demyx
No.8 AxelSaix
Yeah, I was basing it on Limit Cut. I don't have the Character Files so I didn't know they ranked them like this. This one makes much more sense. Is the Character Files the official ranking?
 
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Yeah, I was basing it on Limit Cut. I don't have the Character Files so I didn't know they ranked them like this. This one makes much more sense. Is the Character Files the official ranking?
I recall an interview where Nomura said the True Organization doesn't have official rankings, because it would confuse people too much when they see that everyone from Xemnas's Org. has been pushed down (like "why is No.1 now No.5?") But if you wanted to assign them ranks, this would be the best reference for it.
 
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