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KH Theory: Saving Terra (or an essay on the mind, heart, and a lot of KH lore)



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BlackOsprey

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Disclaimer: this is not my theory. The text and pictures are from something a friend of mine wrote up. I got his permission to share it. Brace yourself, it's a bit of a long read.

Click here for the original post.


---

I’ve had lots of theories in the past, some ridiculous, some with a lot of effort, some fun to think about and some that people actually liked. However at this stage in the story many of them were disproven, partly proven, or just ignored entirely as concepts dropped with a new story installment.
But there’s one theory I think that still has wiggle room outside all the Chi craze going down right now.
It’s a tricky matter with indications in several directions by the story but one with plausibility room.

Yes, let’s talk about the ill-fated topic of Terra’s heart.

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Yes yes I know it’s a topic that’s done to death. The same way almost every Xehanort topic possible has as well. However, this is a topic that usually divides into three conclusions for people:

1) Terra is in Riku

2) Terra is a part of Xehanort, Ansem and Xemnas now a neoTerranort upon the old Nort’s revival

3) That his soul is in the lingering will armor


Well first I’m gonna tell you right now #3 is total BS. Contrary to belief, life in Kingdom Hearts is well defined and has been since 2005 with KH2. Described to us by Diz, Ansem the Wise, himself within the Secret Ansem’s Report almost no fans read.

Three elements combine to create a life: a heart, a soul, and a body.


But what of the soul and body left behind when the heart is lost?


When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves?


A being does not perish when its heart leaves its body. The heart alone disappears into the darkness.

This is found in Secret Ansem Report 4. It’s the same in the original PS2 KH2 version and 2.5, there are no changes to this line.

It's brought up as he's describing Heartless. As anyone knows, a heartless is born from a person's darkness, it has no heart of its own while feeding others as well, keeping the heart it spawned from captive.
Of course, if a strong willed person loses their heart to darkness or the Heartless their body becomes a Nobody. However, what allows this to happen is the fact that the body in question isn’t dead yet.

The heart was ripped from the body, not the soul, and because of this the body isn’t dead but at the same time it has no identity. No mind, no consciousness. It’s just a lump of living matter and so it fades away.

It’s a common misconception that this process of losing a heart always creates a Nobody, which is false.

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The very cutscenes of KH2 itself repeatedly point out this only happens to those of strong will & heart. (the very first meeting of Sora & YenSid in KH2 point it out even)
With the human-like Nobodies of Organization 13 being of the utmost strong-willed, they retain such an appearance and level of sentience.

For a Nobody to be born, the heart must first be lost to darkness/Heartless and for that hearts will to be so damn strong that its consciousness refuses to fade away entirely, clinging to its discarded body. From there, the body reforms in the realm between as a nobody. A being tormented by lack of feeling and a desire for the heart it lost.

This is where the hole in the Lingering Will = Terra’s soul theory is poked. If the Lingering Will had Terra’s soul, then the new body Xehanort had just stolen would’ve dropped over dead. Terranort would’ve died on the spot defeating the purpose of Xehanort possessing him.


“But wait! What if Old Nort put his soul into Terra’s body! HA!”


No no wrong. Remember Xehanort’s body is old, he fears it's encroaching on death. If the soul is the body's battery, then he’s not gonna carry it over into Terra’s body. He wants new life, not to drag his nearly extinguished soul to a younger body.

Xehanort Report 8 BBS said:
Was my time drawing to an end, then, after all I had accomplished since casting away the place of my birth? Surely waiting for a quiet death would not do, not when there was still so much I needed to see for myself. Powers help me, I thought, my body is so old…

Xehanort is afraid of death. He doesn’t want his years of effort to be for naught. His body is old, for what he wants to do it won’t be enough. So using his powers as Keyblade Master, he pulls out his heart and takes over Terra’s body as his older body fades away with a content smile.


“But wouldn’t that make a No-“


Ah ah ah! Reread above. No that wouldn’t make a Nobody. Old Nort transferred his heart, he didn’t become a Heartless. That doesn’t happen until later when he’s Terranort-apprentice.
However it should be worth noting that it’s possible “something” was left behind by this action. It’s an old interview but Nomura once said a “fixed sentiment” could’ve been left behind.

But since that was years ago with no return to the topic, I’d take his “fixed” comment with a grain of salt. Especially now that we’ve seen Xehanort returned to his original body in DDD. This time accompanied by 11 other bodies he’s possessed. Essentially ensuring his life is extended 12 times over, hoping Sora would be his 13th.


“okay so the lingering will isn’t Terra’s soul. Then what is it and what does this have to do with Terra’s heart”


Well that’s something I’m getting to. As you may have noticed, I have disproven major theory #3 but I haven’t mentioned 1 or 2 yet. Well what if I told you rather than one of them being wrong, that instead both are correct?


“…wut?”


Ah~ I love that reaction. It was my fave part of theories in the old days, outside discussion. Sadly such discussion is rare now. I digress.
Anyway while this may seem highly illogical let me remind you of our main villain. The very one I mentioned above ^

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The key to Xehanort's plan is ironically the very thing Sora says he “treats like bottles on a shelf”, his heart. His Keyblade? Just a tool. Old friend Eraqus? A sacrifice. TAV? Stepping stones. His own heart? A means to an end.

Xehanort’s entire scheme hinges on the fact that he manages to find a way to place his heart and very consciousness into 13 bodies. 13 Xehanorts, 13 seekers of the darkness, 13 beings with the same core controlling force.

While honestly this is a topic of its own entirely, it shows us something that is possible and likewise crucial to this theory. That the heart can exist in multiple bodies, places or states.
Xehanort has demonstrated that the heart can literally be stretched in its consciousness over multiple bodies.


“So your saying that Terra’s heart is in Riku AND one of Xehanort's DDD vessels?”


Yes, yes I am. A part of him is probably in the Lingering Will as well. Interviews state that the Lingering Will is simply Terra’s hatred and anger. However in KH2FM it talks to Sora, showing a level of human intelligence as well.

However, in the LW’s case, I think it’s more akin to Vanitas’ Unversed. It’s a part of Terra but not exactly a full person. Just raw emotions going on a rampage in accordance to those emotions.

After all, if Vanitas can make literal monsters out of his negative feelz, then why is it so hard to believe that Terra’s armor was animated the same way?

The mind and the heart are linked, the mind is the hearts identifying consciousness. Xehanort demonstrates this with his vessels, especially Ansem&Xemnas who are just younger him (hims?), and Xemnas himself reaffirms the connection in DDD when he tells Sora:

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Indeed, a heart is never lost for good. There may have been variances in our dispositions, but a number of us unquestionably showed signs of a burgeoning replacement. Once born, the heart can also be nurtured.

Our experiments creating Heartless, were attempts to control the mind and convince it to renounce its sense of self. But understand, one can banish the heart from the body, but the body will try to replace it, the first chance it gets, for as many times as it takes.

And so I knew, even after we were divided into Heartless and Nobodies, it was just a temporary separation.

For us in the real world, the mind is a product of our brain, or so many believe. However in Kingdom Hearts the “mind” is a product of the heart. A sense of self formed from gaining experiences in the form of memories. Building blocks into forming who you are.

This is also why memories are so important or how beings like Roxas can become a separate entity from Sora. It’s also how most Nobodies are just reflections of their human self, because they normally have that humans memories. (except Roxas&Namine)


“Okay I see. So when you see things like inner monologues or Stations of Awakening, what you're seeing is a mind delving into its own heart.”


Yes yes you got it! :D The “mind” is how the heart “views itself”. Like the mind is the hearts mirror. For Xehanort, it’s essential he shatters this mirror so the heart has no consciousness to reject him. WHICH is why he goes through such lengths to make Sora and Terra fall to darkness.
So for example when you see the Lingering Will attack Terranort and he exclaims “why does your mind resist!?” it’s because Terra’s heart is so full of hatred and rejection for Xehanort that it found any way it could fight against him.


“Right right. But what about theory 1&2”


Ohhhh I haven’t forgotten dear reader. I just like to have myself explained as thoroughly as possible. A way to try and help any would be theorizer and reader to understand what I mean to the fullest extent. Even if that sadly stretches my theories into long essays. Haha

So here we have above a mountain of evidence that I mostly pulled from the very games themselves. Literally information you can see yourself in a game report or a cutscene. I recognize the stigma of the interviews a la Nomura, and so used evidence you can bluntly see on SE sanctioned game discs.

What I have essentially shown you is that not only are the heart & mind one, but that these two can be stretched over multiple forms and even have “off shoots” like Unversed, Heartless, or even living armor. This is a fantasy series and the heart a mystical concept beyond intended explanation. Anything is possible. “The heart is the mightiest weapon of all” right?

So let's go back to points 1 and 2. Fans are divided on this notion. In Dream Drop Distance, when the Norts gather, Mickey lists off possible allies, to which old Xehanort retorts:

“Sora and another on your list belong to me now.”

At first glance this would imply Terra, who he’s already used as a vessel in Terranort, as well as a means to spawn Ansem & Xemnas. It also points to Sora who he’s just captured and believes he’ll possess without question. *cue Axel’s troll moment*

Due to this most fans automatically assume that after Ansem & Xemnas was destroyed, all that mess of Xehanort (heart), Eraqus (heart), Terra, Terra’s body and Terra’s soul kinda had a reset.
Old Nort has his main body back, but now also Terranort is also back, albeit under the old one's thumb.

However other fans have also found some compelling arguments to the contrary that Terra is perhaps in Riku’s heart the same way Ven’s is in Sora’s.


“Now how does that even work? =/”


Simple. You have to remember that at one point, Ansem, Xehanort's Heartless, Xehanort's very roaming heart as Young Xehanort put it, had possessed Riku’s body. (as seen in KH1)

For the time between Hollow bastion in KH1, through Chain of Memories, allllll the way till KH2 boss battle, Riku was host to Ansem, or anything that remained of him.
Whether it was truly Ansem or just a part of Xehanort left there is a thing of contention, but what’s important here is that Ansem is the “walking heart”/Heartless Xehanort created using Terra.
Terra was in that mixture of Ansem & Xemnas. Exactly how that was divided was intentionally avoided each time someone asked Nomura, and the games themselves don’t delve into said question.

However while others would see this and think Terra is in one place or another, I look at this and think “why can’t he be in both?”


“Hmmm….well if Xehanort can have his heart in 13 places at once I don’t see why not. BUT if Terra was there wouldn’t we see him? All we see is Riku struggling with Ansem in Chain of Memories and DDD.”


You're correct. When it comes to Riku’s struggle with darkness, it’s always represented by an “Ansem” he must conquer. However in each instance the “Ansem” Riku confronts acts differently.
In Chain of Memories the inner Ansem we see is very much a Xehanort. It wants to take back control from Riku forcibly. Nearly does so several times.

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BUT the Ansem we see in Dream Drop Distance is different. It’s practically three different portrayals of him.

Throughout Riku's early story in DDD, he encounters Ansem & YoungXehanort. They haunt him with cryptic words then leave.

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Later on young Xehanort appears alone and points out they had hoped to make Riku the 13th vessel since he was one prior for Ansem. However, it’s also because of that experience that Riku has become resistant to the darkness. To Xehanort that made Riku “no good”. Riku can manipulate and resist the darkness, he’s a unique being of his own making, and since Xehanort relies on the darkness to control his victims, this makes Riku a wasted effort, and so he settles for Sora.

However even though Young Xehanort said they’ve given up on him Ansem appears to Riku again later. When he defeats the nightmare coat holding Sora he’s dragged into the darkness where he encounters another Ansem.

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This Ansem is very strange in comparison. He tries to get Riku to “accept” him. Repeatedly. He even mentions he can “save his friend” by doing so. Since when would Ansem say Riku can “save Sora” when he wants Sora for a vessel? He wants Riku to open up to him which is almost backwards to how he was in Chain of Memories. In CoM Ansem could take control forcibly, it was only Mickey’s assistance that spared Riku.

Yet THIS time Ansem doesn’t. He instead appeals to Riku. This battle also oddly places call backs to Riku's meeting with Terra in Birth by Sleep. Such as Riku bringing up “the strength to protect what matters” or the curious moment of the Guardian reaching out towards Riku as it fades away.

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Riku says the Ansem he’s facing here reminds him of “someone he made a promise too”. Leaving “Ansem” silent momentarily. He rejects this Ansem yet the Guardian still reaches out to Riku desperately.

All this Terra allusion in one battle, only for Riku to encounter Ansem again in the gathering of Norts. However the Ansem we see at the gathering is almost puppet like, moving at the command of the Old Nort’s smirk.

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He has no interest in Riku, he’s set on keeping Sora in their clutches like the other Norts. Almost as if the Ansems aren’t the same one.
Just think about it: Ansem appears in Riku’s dreamscape alone, when before Ansem & Xemnas were always accompanied by young Xehanort. Something we know they all need as it’s the young Nort allowing these other Norts to travel.

They NEED YX to be near by so they can appear as well yet in that battle Ansem appeared alone only to appear moments later in the gathering.


“…..Okay…that…that’s honestly very suspicious when pointed out. It’s like there’s three Ansems at play. The one from CoM, the one being controlled in DDD and the one beckoning Riku in DDD”


EXACTLY DEAR READER! On point! The personalities of these Ansems are conflicting. CoM and the DDD Ansem with young Nort are the same, but the Ansem Riku meets in his boss battle is very odd with allusions to Terra sprinkled all over their fight.

In essence we have the source of theory 1 & 2’s contention. There’s conflicting evidence. We know for a fact the body used to make Xemnas has to be among the Norts reformed alongside old Nort in his body, but it’s thanks to Xehanort himself that we know a heart isn’t exactly limited to one form.

Its mind can be shared. Parts of one's heart can literally be placed in others and grow. Simply put, DDD itself throws in our face that Terra is somehow in both places. A part of him being used as a puppet for Xehanort, but also a part of him that reaches out to Riku as Ansem.


“But why not just appear to Riku AS Terra?”


A valid question but also one with several answers. Like for example, what if he simply can’t?
Ansem was Xehanort's Heartless but Terra was in the mixture. Perhaps he needs to be freed of his darkness for him to reobtain his true form.

Something he reaches out to Riku for.

Or perhaps it’s like an old theory I've seen that he’s trying to keep Riku from making the same mistake he did and confronting him in ways.

Or perhaps it’s simply that way so Nomura can troll and set up a “wait what!?” situation in KH3 when we go to find Terra for saving.


“Hm…not a bad point. Not exactly solid but it works. So your theory is that Terra is in two- three places?”


Yes and no. I do think a part of Terra is in Riku, another in his armor, and one being used as a Nort, but I think what is important is the part of Terra in Riku.
(the biggest proof being how the LW has Terra’s hatred yet we see Terra & old Nort in Blank points arguing over their body)

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In KH3 we’re supposed to save the lost wielders. Ven, Aqua, Xion, Roxas, Namine, and Terra. All that have disappeared in one way or another.

While Ven is as easy as putting his heart back and Aqua as easy as finding her on the shore, the others are more complicated. Terra’s body is being used as a Nort. Xehanort (and really Nomura himself) needs 13 Xehanorts for his final battle. Meaning if they saved Terra’s norted body Xehanort would be down one vessel.
Likewise the beings of Roxas, Xion and Namine have no bodies. Xion was a puppet that was destroyed, Namine was literally made from nothing and Roxas merged back into Sora.

We know they’re gonna be saved but we also know it’s a lot more complex to bring them back. Their hearts are there and can be reached, but they have no bodies to reside in.

I’m not sure what the plan is there, perhaps some KH science, Disney magic or some deus ex machina like when Kairi hugged Sora back into a human.
Just think about it. When Roxas and Namnie was born it was because Sora’s heart and Kairi’s left his body at the same time. Normally Kairi couldn’t make a nobody, she has no darkness-


“Right so she can’t make a Heartless!”


-Exactly. Kairi can’t make a Heartless so she can’t form a Nobody. Meaning Sora was the key component that let it happen. However the hitch there is a Nobody by definition is a strong hearted person’s body reformed into another creature.
The body of the original person is needed for a Nobody to be born. However ,only Sora’s body was in the equation yet three people came out of it. Namine, Roxas and Sora turned from Heartless to human again.

We know Namine didn’t have a body and just sorta “spoofed” into being but the fact remains that Sora’s original body was being used by himself or by Roxas.

What this means is it’s possible for a body to be made.
If Namine can be made from nothing then perhaps the data Riku got from Diz at the end of DDD is key to giving others bodies.
Granted it’s not simple to make one, otherwise I imagine Xehanort would’ve just grown 13 bodies for himself. Meaning it’s likely a one-time “miracle” moment but in some shape or form Xion, Roxas and Namine will be given new vessels.


“Ahh I see! So you’re saying that if those three can get new bodies, then what’s to stop them from using the same process to give the Terra within Riku form!”


YOU GOT IT! They may not need to save Terra’s old body Xehanort stole. Perhaps all they need to is simply give from to Terra’s heart that’s rested itself within Riku’s being.

It’s not that both the theories of Terra’s heart are wrong it’s that they both are RIGHT! All he needs is whatever deus-ex-machina plot device they use on Roxas, Namine & Xion and bring him back! :D BAM!

Now you have a reason for 13 Norts and all the heroes so far being around to fight in KH3!

---

So, to summarize:
Based on evidence that can be found in-game, there's reason to believe that fragments of Terra's heart are scattered amongst the LW, a current Nort vessel, and most importantly, within Riku. It may also be possible to save Terra by using whatever deus-ex-machina event that'll restore body-less characters like Xion and Roxas to give the heart that Riku is hypothetically carrying around form too, restoring Terra while letting the Norts keep a vessel.

So! Does any of this seem feasible to you? Any lapses in logic that you noticed? Anything to add? Discuss~! :D
 
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Chuuya

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That post was long but beautiful Osprey. I like the theory of Terra being in 3 separate beings. This is well written and nicely explained! "He even mentions he can 'save his friend' by doing so." That part of the theory really gets my attention! Ansem never really talks like that. If Sora was used as a vessel already, then Riku wouldn't be worth trying to fall back into darkness. Ansem wouldn't care about him falling into darkness because he resists it and Sora was the chosen vessel. It makes sense.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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I just finished responding to this on tumblr and I felt like posting it here as well.

“CoM and the DDD Ansem with young Nort are the same but the Ansem Riku meets in his boss battle is very odd with allusions to Terra sprinkled all over their fight. “
I’m not so sure about DDD Ansem with KidNort and Ansem before the boss battle being different Ansems

Ansem at La Cite Des Cloches: “But I embrace the darkness - and unless you hurry up and do the same, your story will end just like his [Frollo]

If this Ansem with the littlest Nort is the same Ansem in CoM I don’t believe he’d be warning Riku of where his fear of the darkness is heading. He comes off more like the Ansem chatting with Riku later.


“But I embrace the darkness - and unless you hurry and do the same…”

“Set the darkness in you free, and you can rescue your friend.”

Ansem’s line when later talking with Riku looks to be a continuation from earlier.

Another interesting thing to point out is a line from Riku:

“Even after locking you away, here you are, haunting me again.


“Locking you away.”

We know Riku never had Namine fiddle with his memories to lock Ansem within his heart, so when exactly did Riku “lock away” Ansem?

Ansem the Wise’s Deus Ex Machina 9000


What I’m saying is when that machine exploded it could be that it didn’t purge Ansem but locked him away in Riku’s heart instead.


Riku is a smart enough guy to tell the difference between Ansem being gone from his heart or being sealed away. Using “locking” here would imply Ansem is still there, and if Ansem truly left wouldn’t he have instead said “Even after purging you from my heart…”?

So to me the Ansem at La Cite Des Cloches and the Ansem Riku talks in the DARKNESS (!!!!!!) are the same dude.

This leaves the Ansem at the Nort Fort.


“However the Ansem we see at the gathering is almost puppet like, moving at the command of the Old Nort’s smirk.

He has no interest in Riku, he’s set on keeping Sora in their clutches like the other Norts. Almost as if the Ansems aren’t the same one. “

Or that they are the same one and he’s being, you know, controlled by Geezernort. (Granted we don’t actually know for sure if he was being controlled at that point or not but for the sake of discussion)

We don’t quite know what goes on when Xehanort controls someone. Does he control their heart, their body, or both? If it’s just the body, then what would stop Ansem from say, communicating with Riku through the piece of himself that seems to still reside there? A small stretch but one that could work given this series.


And to finish my unusually long response, with the Ansem part, it’s either:


Ansem is actually Terra and is trying to help stop Xehanort.


Ansem is actually Ansem and is trying to help stop Xehanort.


(Nort mutiny! Munortiny? Nortinty?)"


*passes out because I'm not used to making long post*

EDIT: And his response:
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Sephiroth0812

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I like the theory of Terra being in 3 separate beings.

Even more intriguing is all the symbolism that would come with this fact.
The number 3 and trinities already have a huge thematic presence in the whole KH series, arguably on the same scale as the whole 7 and 13 numbers although made less obvious.
A full person consists of three main parts, most of the primary characters come in trios and so on, so Terra's essence being "split" among three separate beings would play right into that symbolism.

Not to mention that if Terra actually has at least a little sort of active influence on the whole thing his statements to old MX in Blank Points would make more sense as not only would being split in three locations give Terra more opportunites to do something significant when the time is right, he would also somewhat use the same methods Xehanort is using.

It would be a parallel between Terra and Xehanort just like Sora has the parallel with the whole heart-connection thing in regards to Xehanort, eventually leading back to the concept that all these heart-related abilities (forming connections, splitting heart between multiple beings/places, merge them etc.) are practically universal abilities that theoretically every heart is capable of but few actually tap into.

---

On a somewhat melancholic side note:
Well thought out and coherent theories that use actual examples from the series' material themselves instead of just into the blue speculation like this one are what bring me the most joy to read and make me somewhat sad that someone as skilled in this stuff as Gram doesn't do it anymore due to growing frustration and estrangement from the series.

It is a very long read but that only gives it more weight and I can't really find any substantial hole in the logic.
While it of course isn't possible to say that it will truly happen that way, I'd say the probability of it is actually pretty high, especially when considering that when combined the parts of this theory practically allow Terra to fight on the "right side" (in his view) without making Xehanort's faction lose a vessel and open up more possibilities for some actual more interesting focus on Terra as a character as a whole.
It would also somewhat fit with Nomura's usual knack for "surprises" as unlike us fan forum nerds who of the more casual fans would actually predict such a rather complex setup for this one character?
Speaking about this, strangely I get the image of the 9 figures on the Keyblade Graveyard standing opposite 13 other figures from X[chi] back into my head...
 

BlackOsprey

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Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on this.


For the most part, everything about this theory is very well-founded, mostly because of the thorough amount of in-game evidence. The only part I was a bit skeptical about was the "DDD Ansem tries bargaining, so he's different from the others" bit. Ever since the first time I saw that scene, I'd mostly assumed that it was more of the same trickery that every villain resorts to when they know they can't brute-force the hero. After all, the Norts all know that Riku's immune to darkness, and Ansem's gotten thrashed by him enough times to know. Of course, even if this was really the case, it doesn't explain away all of the Terra allusions, nor the fact that Ansem was able to appear alone while every single other Nort has always had Trollanort close by.


tbh I'm reminded of a debate from a few months ago about just what was going on in that scene. Well, more specifically, what was going on with Ansem. Was he whatever that was left of the Ansem that was lingering in Riku's heart? Was he a failed Nort seed with a personality? Or was he Riku's own darkness that had been influenced by KH1 Ansem, and had twisted into his image and identity?


No one suggested that it could've been Terra's heart, under the lingering influence/control/darkness shenanigans of Xehanort's Heartless. I mean, it's obvious that Terra isn't 100% there (otherwise he wouldn't be trying to kill Riku or be yelling 'DARKNESS DARK DARK PAWN OF THE DARKNESSSSS') but there're enough references to BBS that it's possible that Terra had some sort of influence over whatever it was that Riku was talking to.


And even if we're going to go with the trickery route, it has to be noted that without that chat with Ansem, it's likely that Riku could've been trapped there, possibly forever. Trollanort's first spoken lines even allude to this: "This wakeless sleep will be your prison... to wander forever."

Had Ansem done nothing, Riku would've just been kind of stuck there, with no real idea of what was happening or where he was. Instead, he gives Riku all the exposition he needs and explains stuff away like a freakin' Bond villain: he tells Riku where he is (Sora's dream), that Sora was defeated, the fact that Riku has Dream Eater powers, AND gives him part of the answer to escaping to the real world. Being made aware of those DE powers are likely what gave Riku the whole "consume the darkness, return it to light" idea in the first place, and some interpret his escape to the real world as him devouring the nightmare that he had been wandering in.


There was literally no reason for Ansem to let him know that he'd gained nightmare-munching powers. Either this is a standard case of Bond Villain Blabbermouthing, or there was something else going on. Add on all the context of that entire scene and the "something else" implications get much stronger.

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FudgemintGuardian

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And even if we're going to go with the trickery route, it has to be noted that without that chat with Ansem, it's likely that Riku could've been trapped there, possibly forever. Trollanort's first spoken lines even allude to this: "This wakeless sleep will be your prison... to wander forever."

Had Ansem done nothing, Riku would've just been kind of stuck there, with no real idea of what was happening or where he was. Instead, he gives Riku all the exposition he needs and explains stuff away like a freakin' Bond villain: he tells Riku where he is (Sora's dream), that Sora was defeated, the fact that Riku has Dream Eater powers, AND gives him part of the answer to escaping to the real world. Being made aware of those DE powers are likely what gave Riku the whole "consume the darkness, return it to light" idea in the first place, and some interpret his escape to the real world as him devouring the nightmare that he had been wandering in.


There was literally no reason for Ansem to let him know that he'd gained nightmare-munching powers. Either this is a standard case of Bond Villain Blabbermouthing, or there was something else going on. Add on all the context of that entire scene and the "something else" implications get much stronger.
To add a little thing, Ansem was also the one who sent Sora to Xigbar and Xemnas. And Ansem relocating Sora is why Ansem appears at the end of Sora's dream after Aqua wibbly fades aways.

So Ansem kidnapped Sora (wait they already kidnapped him so I guess he's more kidnapped?) so the little dumb dumb head can become a vessel, traps Riku in the dark darkness so he can't escape and rescue Sora.....only to give Riku everything he needs to know in order to escape and rescue Sora.
 

BlackOsprey

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To add a little thing, Ansem was also the one who sent Sora to Xigbar and Xemnas. And Ansem relocating Sora is why Ansem appears at the end of Sora's dream after Aqua wibbly fades aways.

So Ansem kidnapped Sora (wait they already kidnapped him so I guess he's more kidnapped?) so the little dumb dumb head can become a vessel, traps Riku in the dark darkness so he can't escape and rescue Sora.....only to give Riku everything he needs to know in order to escape and rescue Sora.
After all these years, I still keep finding new stuff in DDD that I never noticed before.

So that's another thing to add to the list of Ansem's contradictory actions. Like you said, even though he kicked Sora further down the rabbit hole and tried to trap Riku, he still gave Riku a free situation report and even hinted at the method of escape. And there's nothing that really explains why he does this.
 

Sephiroth0812

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And there's nothing that really explains why he does this.

There isn't really an official or verifiable explanation for it, but several possible situations that could get nearer to the why:

1. Ansem really is overconficent and doesn't entertain the thought that Riku really could escape even less truly help Sora in any form. He does say that no matter how many Nightmares Riku consumes, it is too late for Sora in any case so he may think they (the norts) have already won. Then he tries his old schtick from KH 1 again by offering the "Only by opening up to the Darkness you can gain the upper hand"-solution and even tries to twist around Riku's success in "locking away the Darkness" by trying to paint that as "shameful".
Only by this time around Riku has wised up much more compared to KH 1 times and Ansem's manipulation falls flat on its face.

2. Due to be made out of a mess of struggling hearts Ansem SoD has actually developed something of a split personality.

or 3. It is not really an literal split personality but the Xehanort influence-side and Terra influence-side competing to direct Ansem's actions and words, with for a short time, possibly triggered by Riku remembering his meeting with him, Terra's influence shining through.
Riku himself could stop Ansem in his tracks for a short time in KH 1 and during Final Episode in BBS it was shown that Terra could also partly resurface inside Terra-Xehanort.
The way how Xehanort's, Terra's and Eraqus' "parts" and powers/memories were divided between Ansem and Xemnas is still a mystery, so it is possible.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Assuming the spoilerish conversation between those two characters during the KH concert is cannon, how do you think it adds to your theory, Osp?
 

BlackOsprey

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There isn't really an official or verifiable explanation for it, but several possible situations that could get nearer to the why:

1. Ansem really is overconficent and doesn't entertain the thought that Riku really could escape even less truly help Sora in any form. He does say that no matter how many Nightmares Riku consumes, it is too late for Sora in any case so he may think they (the norts) have already won. Then he tries his old schtick from KH 1 again by offering the "Only by opening up to the Darkness you can gain the upper hand"-solution and even tries to twist around Riku's success in "locking away the Darkness" by trying to paint that as "shameful".
Only by this time around Riku has wised up much more compared to KH 1 times and Ansem's manipulation falls flat on its face.

2. Due to be made out of a mess of struggling hearts Ansem SoD has actually developed something of a split personality.

or 3. It is not really an literal split personality but the Xehanort influence-side and Terra influence-side competing to direct Ansem's actions and words, with for a short time, possibly triggered by Riku remembering his meeting with him, Terra's influence shining through.
Riku himself could stop Ansem in his tracks for a short time in KH 1 and during Final Episode in BBS it was shown that Terra could also partly resurface inside Terra-Xehanort.
The way how Xehanort's, Terra's and Eraqus' "parts" and powers/memories were divided between Ansem and Xemnas is still a mystery, so it is possible.

See, I've thought that number three is probably the most likely. Unlike the first two, this concept has been implied to be possible (albeit neglected/eventually dropped entirely) with Xemnas. As Gram put it, Terra might've been trying to help Riku the best he could in his situation- ie trapped inside a sociopathic darkness demon with almost no will of his own.
I also have a hard time believing the first one, personally. Xehanort (and his offshoots by proxy) aren't stupid. Sure, he's suspect to overconfidence, pride, and rashness from time to time, but I doubt that he would be unobservant enough to not notice Riku's developing darkness resistance, and to think that any ploy involving darkness in any way would work on him.

Also, that's a very interesting idea, that Riku was able to stop Ansem because of Terra's influence. Definitely not planned ahead on the writers' parts, but a good explanation all the same.

Assuming the spoilerish conversation between those two characters during the KH concert is canon, how do you think it adds to your theory, Osp?
Well, it definitely doesn't disprove the theory completely. It does imply that the LW is going to play the bigger part in restoring Terra, which might push the whole "Terra heart fragment hitchhiking in Riku's heart" thing out of the picture. I'm personally hoping that doesn't happen since I find that the most interesting bit out of the whole theory.

That being said, by implying that the LW could be used to restore Terra, that little concert exchange actually adds some credence to the idea that the LW does in fact carry something more than just decade-old impressions of Terra's rage. Possibly part of Terra's heart, as the theory proposed.
 

Ballad of Caius

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See, I've thought that number three is probably the most likely. Unlike the first two, this concept has been implied to be possible (albeit neglected/eventually dropped entirely) with Xemnas. As Gram put it, Terra might've been trying to help Riku the best he could in his situation- ie trapped inside a sociopathic darkness demon with almost no will of his own.
I also have a hard time believing the first one, personally. Xehanort (and his offshoots by proxy) aren't stupid. Sure, he's suspect to overconfidence, pride, and rashness from time to time, but I doubt that he would be unobservant enough to not notice Riku's developing darkness resistance, and to think that any ploy involving darkness in any way would work on him.

Also, that's a very interesting idea, that Riku was able to stop Ansem because of Terra's influence. Definitely not planned ahead on the writers' parts, but a good explanation all the same.


Well, it definitely doesn't disprove the theory completely. It does imply that the LW is going to play the bigger part in restoring Terra, which might push the whole "Terra heart fragment hitchhiking in Riku's heart" thing out of the picture. I'm personally hoping that doesn't happen since I find that the most interesting bit out of the whole theory.

That being said, by implying that the LW could be used to restore Terra, that little concert exchange actually adds some credence to the idea that the LW does in fact carry something more than just decade-old impressions of Terra's rage. Possibly part of Terra's heart, as the theory proposed.

Well, it's implied in DDD that pretty much anything can grow a heart. You could say Nobodies are empty shells being animated by emotions, slowly growing a heart (though there's a definite difference between an object being animated by emotions, and a body and soul). Perhaps during the passing of years the LW started developing a heart. Or Naminé helping the LW remember his past sparked the creation of a heart.
 
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