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KH2 Donald & Goofy vs KH1 Donald & Goofy.



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VoidGear.

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Except that we have done that to death too in KH 1 and KH CoM in nearly every second cutscene as well.
[...]
When talking solely about DG they would actually benefit from interacting and connecting with original characters that are not Sora.

slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif
 

Elysium

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Except that we have done that to death too in KH 1 and KH CoM in nearly every second cutscene as well.
KH 2 also strew in a SDG scene every once in a while so I really do not see why out of all connections and relationships between Sora and other people supposedly close to him that need attention one would be with Donald and Goofy.
I think they do need exploring because the three of them are on the screen all the time. Doing nothing with them despite having the most airtime is what's inexcusable. At the end of the day, TAV, etc. are side characters to Sora. I really doubt they will share equal time to him and Riku in KH3 (or anything post-KH3 featuring Sora either). Why does he even need a relationship with all these random characters anyway? He saves characters he barely knows all the time.
 

Zettaflare

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If they want to do something new with SDG's relationship maybe have them have an argument at some point in kh3 that causes them to break up for a brief period of the game. Trials like that can usually strengthen bonds when they inevitably make up
 

KeybladeLordSora

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If they want to do something new with SDG's relationship maybe have them have an argument at some point in kh3 that causes them to break up for a brief period of the game. Trials like that can usually strengthen bonds when they inevitably make up
Isn't that what happened in CoM?
 

Dodi Dream

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I think that KH1 Donald and Goofy are more powerful, I mean, they could defeat a boss on their own! And I loved Goofy's MP gift
In KH2 they were almost always KO, especially Donald, and I don't think they would be able to defeat a boss on their own, even if their limits are really strong
Plotwise, I like them in both games, I love their relationship with Sora
I would love to see them interact more with other original character in KH3 :)
Yeah, I would like to see Sora interacting more with other original character as well, but I don't know if it's going to happen :(
 

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I almost feel like Donald and Goofy as individuals were way nerfed in KH2. In 1 I usually struggled a little when it came to deciding if I wanted a world's guest party member in my party or not. In 2, there was usually little contest, because their fighting skills fell hard.

Storywise, I felt like they took a backseat to everything and everyone else in the second game. There were, of course, a few scenes scattered throughout that just involved them, but those scenes usually saw them talking about others. Like when Sora was sure Riku had visited them in Land of Dragons. He, Donald, and Goofy were all there, talking, but Sora wasn't focused on them in the slightest (the outlier to this trend is, of course, when Goofy dies; that was a good few minutes of story and gameplay).
 

Xickin

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I thought KH1 Donald and Goofy had a lot more personality as opposed to KH2 where they just went wherever they were told to go. KH1 DG had alternative motives, they told Sora white lies to further their goals, betrayed him, and had internal struggles as to what they should do.
 

Divine Past

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I think maybe the writers didn't like how COM turned out with Sora even getting angry at Dolan/Goofy like in kh1 and they decide in kh2 that they will be best friends with no arguments.
 

Gamingdevotee

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Realistically one of the best ways to give D&G more of a presence in KH3 would be to have a moment where they are going to be left behind. Maybe something like because they aren't wielding Keyblades Yen Sid tries to convince them to leave or something. Saying how they would "get in the way" and then you play without them for a little bit and they save everybody at some point to prove themselves...that way they can get over the whole not adventuring with Sora subplot to their characters as shown in recoded and 3D
 

catcake

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Realistically one of the best ways to give D&G more of a presence in KH3 would be to have a moment where they are going to be left behind.

There was something like that in 3D, wasn't there? I can't remember exactly, but I have this feeling they were a bit like "what can we even do" since, well, they didn't do anything in 3D before the end. When they did it was pretty great though, I love the scene where they barge in on the nort party. Axel was one of the few who got stuff done without a keyblade, but now that that's gone too it would be interesting to see D&G struggle with being useful.

As long as there's time for Kairi too. I need more Kairi.
 

VoidGear.

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There was something like that in 3D, wasn't there? I can't remember exactly, but I have this feeling they were a bit like "what can we even do" since, well, they didn't do anything in 3D before the end. When they did it was pretty great though, I love the scene where they barge in on the nort party. Axel was one of the few who got stuff done without a keyblade, but now that that's gone too it would be interesting to see D&G struggle with being useful.

As long as there's time for Kairi too. I need more Kairi.

Yeah, that happens after the game. They do realize they don't seem to be as "important" as the keyblade wielders, and I really hope that's just gonna change. :s
 

Sora2016

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That's a different topic though as it doesn't change the fact that Sora's relationship with DG was portrayed adequately and given enough attention to give the audience enough of an idea how its dynamics work already in past titles.
With other major characters supposedly very important to him though Sora's relationship isn't nearly as well shown or addressed or in some cases even close to non-existant.
It becomes plainly obvious when looking at that shot in DDD where Sora repeats his "my friends are my power"-statement and all those close to him appear around him (except Naminé for some reason) and out of those the only ones where we know more about how their relationship and dynamics with Sora is are Riku, Donald and Goofy.

I mean, I did agree with this sentiment I believe lol. I think Tartarus put it well though, since SDG will be at the center of the story again they should have some kind of development and interactions lol. All 3 of them were just kind of there in KH2, I feel a lot of there time was just spent being around other people and just kind of making comments, but not really developing themselves or relationships more, and that really needs to not happen again, whether they need development with others or not. But yeah. I really support both of these things I would say.
 

Hirokey123

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I think the issue is Donald and Goofy are disney characters, like actual ones. I mean the thing when the series started they were told not to mix the properties together too much, that's why Donald and Goofy weren't like acknowledged period by nearly anyone and also why they are the only characters besides the princesses that travel. Even then the princesses don't actually interact with one another, they stand near one another, talk about one another a smidge...kinda....not really but even. The only actual mixing that occurred was with the Disney villains and only in few cutscenes. This is also why we have the arbitrary "worlds must be kept secret from one another and no letting people travel".

And post-KH1 though I don't know if that rule is still in place (I imagine it's not it probably went out the door with the 1 mickey appearance rule) but they still continue to write as if it is. And you know I think I get why, when DG are really acknowledged and interacted with by other actual disney characters on a sincere level (and no saying SDG to remind us they are there every 20 minutes is not what I mean by sincere interaction) the entire nature of the series changes. Much like the day Aladin can come with us to Jack skellington's world or something similar the nature of the series turns into something else entirely.

You know DG kinda got around only being loosely acknowledged in KH1/2 by the fact that they had a story involving Sora, and Sora needed him. But that story and his need of them really kinda came to a close with KH2 and it's not really a wonder why. Their friendship had already peaked, they were willing to betray and disobey Mickey for him, and Sora was much stronger. So there wasn't a whole lot to go on with them moving forward. You know they appear in BBS and DDD but they aren't really important, they are consciously aware of the fact they lack a role and that the current state of things required wielders not regular people. Even when a chance to help came they were shut down because the people just didn't have need of them. And you know it's not a surprise they were able to be active in Coded again because Data Sora was a weakling that needed help, they were able to rehash the building of their friendship, and because Mickey has chronic lost direction syndrome.

But I really hope DDD was the start of something new for them, where even when they weren't needed the came anyway and the chance arose for them to do something only they could do saving the day. It sends a nice message that you don't need to be a wielder, they don't need to be wielders to make a difference and this is a message the series is in dire need of right now as wielders increasingly become the only ones who can do anything.

Also we need something like trinity marks back but perhaps on a grander scale because Sora isn't too short to reach the top shelf anymore and a simple wooden fence shouldn't bar his way. SDG should team up and do really cool things together like Donald summoning firework to blow up something that Sora's own fire spells don't have enough oomph for. KH3 gives me hope though cause we already saw something like that, some kind of team attack where Donald and Sora got behind Goofy's shield and knocked an entire squad of tightly knit minotaur heartless flying. Something Sora probably couldn't of done himself alone, that's what we need going forward.

Er also I prefer KH1 DG to KH2 even if I generally found them more useful to me in KH2 with their variety of limit attack and ability to shuffle them in and out on the fly.
 

BlackOsprey

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I'm still trying to figure out how a dog and duck falling at 9.8 m/s/s managed to DESTROY the Guardian, a creature whose body outright deflects Keyblade strikes.
If Donald and Goofy were able to pull off some cartoon logic in a moment as serious as that, I want to see that happen just a bit more often, just for the sake of absurdity and loose continuity. Oh, and in-combat helpfulness, that would be nice too.

... Back on topic, KH1 companions in general beat the KHII ones any day, unless you want those Limits for i-frames.
 

Hirokey123

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I like to think it was due to the fact they were at the time pure concentrated light so it was kinda like they were a giant needle and Guardian was a fleshy leg of a toddler getting their first shot. Though our characters have gotten stronger Guardian isn't as super a guard anymore, at least with flowmotion Riku can super jump off it to send it flying and stun Ansem.

Another way to put it they killed it with the light friendship.
 

Gamingdevotee

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There was something like that in 3D, wasn't there? I can't remember exactly, but I have this feeling they were a bit like "what can we even do" since, well, they didn't do anything in 3D before the end. When they did it was pretty great though, I love the scene where they barge in on the nort party. Axel was one of the few who got stuff done without a keyblade, but now that that's gone too it would be interesting to see D&G struggle with being useful.

As long as there's time for Kairi too. I need more Kairi.

Uh sort of? It was more like they didn't do anything till the end and after everybody was given missions to do their own things, Riku to get Kairi, Lea to learn the Keyblade, Mickey to find Ventus (I think), and Sora to train on his own. Donald and Goofy were like we want to do something important again.

I think personally it would be good development for their characters, like as much as people make jokes about KH, the characters overall are easily understood and well-developed. Donald and Goofy went from indifferent to Sora to considering him as one of their best friends, so nobody can honestly say KH1 D&G would feel the same as KH2 D&G cause they have changed a lot as they developed. Anyway it could be good in power-scaling plot-wise because it could go like this

KH1 D&G are same on power-level as Sora which is why they were more capable and that in COM they were still around the same.

KH2 D&G were weaker than Sora due to his sudden growth spurt and increase in abilities this is why party members seemed weaker in 2

KH RECODED D&G miss helping Sora, but are around the same strength as post-KH2 D&G and only fight on par with Data Sora cause he is much weaker than regular Sora

KH3D D&G want to be more useful, but are now feeling the full effect of being useless as even Yen Sid doesn't let them do anything other than sit around waiting for things to happen.

KH3 D&G maybe train during the time-skip that is probably going to happen before the game to match Sora's strength because he is training as well. Even so due to the nature of the Keyblade wielders being important Yen Sid says something like how they will not be able to help, or they will be in the way. After which they decide to help anyway and prove themselves.

Or they could train to prove themselves sort of like Chad from Bleach...

Sorry for the long post btw I would be cool with more Kairi but I just hope that it doesn't become DBZ with Saiyans=Keyblade Wielders
 

Gamingdevotee

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I think the issue is Donald and Goofy are disney characters, like actual ones. I mean the thing when the series started they were told not to mix the properties together too much, that's why Donald and Goofy weren't like acknowledged period by nearly anyone and also why they are the only characters besides the princesses that travel. Even then the princesses don't actually interact with one another, they stand near one another, talk about one another a smidge...kinda....not really but even. The only actual mixing that occurred was with the Disney villains and only in few cutscenes. This is also why we have the arbitrary "worlds must be kept secret from one another and no letting people travel".

And post-KH1 though I don't know if that rule is still in place (I imagine it's not it probably went out the door with the 1 mickey appearance rule) but they still continue to write as if it is. And you know I think I get why, when DG are really acknowledged and interacted with by other actual disney characters on a sincere level (and no saying SDG to remind us they are there every 20 minutes is not what I mean by sincere interaction) the entire nature of the series changes. Much like the day Aladin can come with us to Jack skellington's world or something similar the nature of the series turns into something else entirely.

You know DG kinda got around only being loosely acknowledged in KH1/2 by the fact that they had a story involving Sora, and Sora needed him. But that story and his need of them really kinda came to a close with KH2 and it's not really a wonder why. Their friendship had already peaked, they were willing to betray and disobey Mickey for him, and Sora was much stronger. So there wasn't a whole lot to go on with them moving forward. You know they appear in BBS and DDD but they aren't really important, they are consciously aware of the fact they lack a role and that the current state of things required wielders not regular people. Even when a chance to help came they were shut down because the people just didn't have need of them. And you know it's not a surprise they were able to be active in Coded again because Data Sora was a weakling that needed help, they were able to rehash the building of their friendship, and because Mickey has chronic lost direction syndrome.

But I really hope DDD was the start of something new for them, where even when they weren't needed the came anyway and the chance arose for them to do something only they could do saving the day. It sends a nice message that you don't need to be a wielder, they don't need to be wielders to make a difference and this is a message the series is in dire need of right now as wielders increasingly become the only ones who can do anything.

Also we need something like trinity marks back but perhaps on a grander scale because Sora isn't too short to reach the top shelf anymore and a simple wooden fence shouldn't bar his way. SDG should team up and do really cool things together like Donald summoning firework to blow up something that Sora's own fire spells don't have enough oomph for. KH3 gives me hope though cause we already saw something like that, some kind of team attack where Donald and Sora got behind Goofy's shield and knocked an entire squad of tightly knit minotaur heartless flying. Something Sora probably couldn't of done himself alone, that's what we need going forward.

Er also I prefer KH1 DG to KH2 even if I generally found them more useful to me in KH2 with their variety of limit attack and ability to shuffle them in and out on the fly.

I agree with the nice message thing, I fear we will be getting a DBZ style Saiyans=Keyblade Wielders everybody else = humans type scenario :(
 

Bionic Puppy

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Ooh pick a hard one for me!

I liked the characters in KH1 because they were moulded to their characters a bit more. Donald was a bit snappy but unlike in KH2 (most of the time) he meant well. Goofy was slightly dumber in KH1 which helped Donald have a redeeming trait but he was also a people person. KH2 exaggerated this, I found, which meant that Goofy was some kind of foreteller and Donald looked like he constantly had a burning piece of coal stuck up his-

At the same time though, Kingdom hearts 2's story really helps Donald and Goofy's character. But I find its really easy to forget that ones a royal wizard and the other is a royal guard. Donald knows a lot, I get that, and Goofy can work out people, but the big feats by some of the disney lots are always done by Mickey.

BUT
BACK ON TOPIC
I preferred KH1 overall just because I like how their characters were back then, even if I didn't like the game.
 

Myst Knight

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Like some of the others here, I think Donald and Goofy were better represented in KH1. Their relationship with Sora felt more sincere, and had a hand in developing his character. I think Disney could do well to loosen the shackles on what Square can and can't do with their characters, to make them and the rest of the Disney character feel more integral to the plot instead of feeling tacked on. I also would've liked to see more of Riku and Maleficent's relationship, since KH1 did a lot to get me into Maleficent as a character.
 
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