Kingdom Hearts 3 Story Discussion

[Audo]

Remember when we were led to believe Mickey and Ansem the Wise were good friends?
Has Mickey ever thought about Ansem or mentioned him again after KH II, except for info dumps?

He mentions him in Re:Coded.

 

[ImVentus]

Spoiler Show

"Well as the original princesses of heart's time for protecting the pure light has ended," Wait, what?! What is this BS?

This is just taking the tip of the iceberg. Why? just why?. This piece of writing is just unacceptable cringe. We don't haft to re-visit the princesses of heart's worlds for them to have a role in the story, but taking away their roles because their story has run it's core and excuse it that they can pass down their power to new princesses. Just like that! Shoehorning new Disney Princesses is such as cheap and unprofessional move on Nomura. But nothing is worse then that their only explanation for this is (Pass down their light, because of a limited time-frame) You expect me to buy this shitty writing?
So apparently now you can change the rules of the lore entirely. Well then while you're at it, also change so that other genders can be a heart. Well Nomura, I'm pretty sure you made your mark as one of the new regressed writers out there. That you're even turning on your far better narrative from the past 15-12 years. As if it wasn't enough with your FF Versus Xlll history, you might need to take a break from writing and hire some writers with a focus on a set in stone narrative. But first! for your own sake, fix all the remaining plot holes with care and then move on with a new idea. Because unfortunately if you continue down this path with ideas thrown in a trashy execution, you're going to end up loosing respect from those that care about these games beyond their gameplay. The bar has already been set from many dissapointed customers and dedicated followers. Right now the story and lore has taken itself to the depths. If I could spell this out to the writing department I would, but they don't give a s'**t.

 

[Audo]

I mean, it was obvious that the 7 PoH weren't the PoH forever considering how thousands of years have happened since the World reformed. The explanation given is simplistic, yes, but maybe that's a blessing in this series.

 

[AdrianXXII]

I mean, it was obvious that the 7 PoH weren't the PoH forever considering how thousands of years have happened since the World reformed. The explanation given is simplistic, yes, but maybe that's a blessing in this series.

True we knew that those seven probably weren't always the 7 hearts of pure light. I just think, that most of us assumed it was a live long thing. That you're born a princess of heart and upon your death a new one is born to hold the light.

I guess now the lore has been expanded on to explain that the passing happens each time the Princesses fulfil their roles, probably along with what we assumed.

Personally I'm not a fan of this development, especially because in KH2 they still clearly were all PoH.

I feel like if they wanted to introduce new princesses of heart they should have done it in kh4 and said that there was a shift in the world order when Xehanort reforgde the X-Blade and killed Kairi.

I especially feel this way because the new PoH didn't add anything to KH3's story.

 

[Sora2016]

Yeah I was more mad because I thought it would be fun to gather the OG princesses one last time, but the actual explanation was simple and seemed fine to me. I actually don't remember anything in KH2 really discussing the princesses at all? Like obviously Kairi, Jasmine, and Belle were around but I forget if they ever brought up their status in anything but the past tense?

 

[AdrianXXII]

I was thinking of the password thing. Though I guess you could argue that Ansem's Password would be the Princesses of Heart from when he was working with the system. So I guess my point is mute. Though Mickey did talk in the present tense when listing them.

 

[Sora2016]

I was thinking of the password thing. Though I guess you could argue that Ansem's Password would be the Princesses of Heart from when he was working with the system. So I guess my point is mute. Though Mickey did talk in the present tense when listing them.

Ah right! I mean that was a thing ha. I guess yea, to the writers it was an old password though lol. Which I guess is a simple enough explanation lol. You are clearly allowed to still dislike that overall of course. I wasn't thrilled about it either at first, I guess I just have sorta accepted it ha. It was definitely set up overall for the next game as well. Though I do think they sorta used Rapunzel and Elsa/Anna "resurrecting" people to parallel what Kairi did for Sora later. Showing its not just Kairi but all the princesses who can do things like that with the power of love.

 

[AdrianXXII]

Ah right! I mean that was a thing ha. I guess yea, to the writers it was an old password though lol. Which I guess is a simple enough explanation lol. You are clearly allowed to still dislike that overall of course. I wasn't thrilled about it either at first, I guess I just have sorta accepted it ha. It was definitely set up overall for the next game as well. Though I do think they sorta used Rapunzel and Elsa/Anna "resurrecting" people to parallel what Kairi did for Sora later. Showing its not just Kairi but all the princesses who can do things like that with the power of love.

Hm... but in both those cases it wasnt really the Princess of heart power, but the magic native to their world, they had in them. The parallel would have been there anyways.
So they didnt have to be PoHs. Though them being new PoH does kind of conect them to Kairi.

I hope they do end up doing interesting things with the new PoH.

 

[Sakuraba Neku]

I finished the game. Overall it was worth the wait and I had a great time, but there are things I didn't like:

- Lack of Disney Worlds. There's only 8 and 100 Acre Wood is shorter than ever. The other 7 are gigantic but by prioritizing quality over quantity, they lost variety.

- Lack of Final Fantasy characters. There's absolutely no reason why Seifer gang couldn't be NPCs in Twilight Town and/or Leon and the others couldn't interact with Sora through the Gummiphone.

- No Olympus Tournaments even though there's big arena for that behind Zeus. Battlegates aren't as fun.

- Charaters appearing on screen and not having voices (Phil, Dilan, Aeleus, most of the links...)

- The dialogue can be cheesier than ever.

- Sora's portrayal. Not only he is responsible for most of the cheesy lines, buy his behavior during the beginning of the War is also something I didn't like. Overall KH1 Sora felt more mature than him.

- Riku is only playable twice and both times against the same boss. It also felt like Riku couldn't do anything successfully on its own and Riku Replica/Sora always had to come to his rescue.

- Some Original Worlds treatment. Twilight Town is smaller and Realm of Darkness is not explorable.

- How many times do we have to fight against the Demon Tower/Tide from now on?!

- Sora is the only playable character during the Keyblade War.

- No critical mode. It should already be in the base game. The tweaks can be done later.


In the end I stand by my opinion that the game was rushed because of that engine fiasco. Lose an entire year of development can't be good a thing for anyone. There was never a game that I wished as much for DLC as this one, because there a lot of potential here.

The way the story was handled, a Riku scenario seems to be the obvious choice when it comes to story content.

We should be able to explore a little of RoD before fighting against Demon tide and after that have a playable Radiant Garden scenario. I also don't like how Saix doesn't have a World for himself, so he show up in that world not only it would be perfect but we would also be killing two birds with one stone. While he's in there we could have a flashback about him and Lea talking about saving "her", so that plot point didn't came from nowhere when he meets Axel.

A Kairi scenario would also be cool, but considering how she was treated during the whole saga that doesn't seem likely. We could explore more of her training with Lea (what they even did?!) and their final test could involve a second visit to one of the Worlds we already have like Twilight Town. Merlin is there afterall. And while we're at it, give us the rest of Twilight Town.

 

[hlc1988]

But if the role of the Princess of Hearts have been fulfilled, in what is presumably KH1, then how come Kairi still retains her power and rank as a POH? Surely that power should have passed on from her too?

 

[Sora2016]

But if the role of the Princess of Hearts have been fulfilled, in what is presumably KH1, then how come Kairi still retains her power and rank as a POH? Surely that power should have passed on from her too?

I believe they literally just say "Oh she must be one of the new ones too" and move on lol. I kinda did forget about that, the convenience of it irks me.

 

[SomeKHFan]

But if the role of the Princess of Hearts have been fulfilled, in what is presumably KH1, then how come Kairi still retains her power and rank as a POH? Surely that power should have passed on from her too?

I feel it's because she didn't stay back to hold back the darkness in Hollow bastion in KH1 like the other princesses did. She left with Sora and co for Traverse Town, while the others were using their power to prevent an even larger heartless tide from leaving the world. So she never actually used her power in the game.

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

So after seeing that one of Axel's moves involves replacing his keyblade with his chakrams, I'm starting to think that his and Kairi's training was apparently bad enough that he'd rather use his old stuff.

hope im wrong

 

[LostArtist]

So after seeing that one of Axel's moves involves replacing his keyblade with his chakrams, I'm starting to think that his and Kairi's training was apparently bad enough that he'd rather use his old stuff.

it's cause of all people, merlin trained them (sigh)

 

[KeybladeLordSora]

it's cause of all people, merlin trained them (sigh)

When ya think about it, why did Yen Sid choose Merlin of all people?

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

So after seeing that one of Axel's moves involves replacing his keyblade with his chakrams, I'm starting to think that his and Kairi's training was apparently bad enough that he'd rather use his old stuff.

hope im wrong

I got a good look at them on a video and the "chakrams" are actually fireballs.

When ya think about it, why did Yen Sid choose Merlin of all people?

Old wizarding budding, probably.

 

[Axendra]

So after seeing that one of Axel's moves involves replacing his keyblade with his chakrams, I'm starting to think that his and Kairi's training was apparently bad enough that he'd rather use his old stuff.

hope im wrong

I didn't see it as him replacing the keyblade with his old chakrams. I just saw it as a keyblade transformation just like how most of the keyblades sora uses turn into guns, staffs, spears and what not. I was actually pleased when I noticed this in battle.

 

[SerDuncan]

I feel like... we're kinda giving the writers too much credit here.

Spoiler Show

Every time I see someone talk about how poorly Kairi and Axel fight in the Keybalde Graveyard, I always see two responses: 1) that they were bad because Merlin trained them poorly/they didn't have enough time 2) that they just weren't ready and were just numbers to fill out the 7 hearts.

Both of these responses makes it seem like Axel and Kairi being weak was a purposeful choice by Nomura and the writers. That he specifically wanted them to be poor in the final battles. I think that's complete and utter hogwash. I say that with complete certainty and little to no evidence.

Honestly though, what with the buildup of Axel and Kairi as Keyblade Wielders as far back as KH2 for Kairi and BBS for Axel, having them be weak in the Keyblade Graveyard is just bad storytelling, especially when we see Sora go through 13 people in short succession without getting tired shortly after. I don't think that Nomura really thought Axel and Kairi through. I think that he really believed he made them both badass, strong characters and that they get their time to shine. If I were to claim that Axel and Kairi looked weak af, he'd probably point to Axel and Kairi dropping one liners or holding their own in the battle before Roxas/Xion show up.

I think that they weren't weak on purpose, I think that they are weak because the story demands that they be weak. Not because of any in world training, or anything of the sort. They literally had a hyperbolic time chamber, there's no excuse for why they can't be ready. I see people say "they sparred against each other" or "they didn't have real enemies to fight". Well, neither did Sora or Riku before KH2 and they did just fine. Same with almost every Disney party member ever. Do you really think that Woody and Buzz practiced fighting well enough to take down giant heartless at the same strength level of Sora? Or Rapunzel, or Jack Skellington? Plus, Axel has proven himself to be a capable fighter, able to stop one of Xehanort's attacks handily. He could just spar with Kairi using his Chakrams instead.

There's really just no excuse for their weakness. We don't need to defend the bad writing with theories and headcanon with little to no evidence to support it.

I'm mad, I'm steaming. Why they gotta treat my boy Axel this way. He nearly took out Marluxia on his own, and was able to fight full strength Xion and win. He should at least be able to put up a fight. D:

 

[Platinum End]

Spoiler Show

With us knowing that Xigbar is Luxu, i remembered one scene with him and xion when in his perspective, he saw Ven and cant help but think that the two had fought back in the time of KHUx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fas8anfnaVA

 

[Divine Past]

I feel like... we're kinda giving the writers too much credit here.

Spoiler Show

Every time I see someone talk about how poorly Kairi and Axel fight in the Keybalde Graveyard, I always see two responses: 1) that they were bad because Merlin trained them poorly/they didn't have enough time 2) that they just weren't ready and were just numbers to fill out the 7 hearts.

Both of these responses makes it seem like Axel and Kairi being weak was a purposeful choice by Nomura and the writers. That he specifically wanted them to be poor in the final battles. I think that's complete and utter hogwash. I say that with complete certainty and little to no evidence.

Honestly though, what with the buildup of Axel and Kairi as Keyblade Wielders as far back as KH2 for Kairi and BBS for Axel, having them be weak in the Keyblade Graveyard is just bad storytelling, especially when we see Sora go through 13 people in short succession without getting tired shortly after. I don't think that Nomura really thought Axel and Kairi through. I think that he really believed he made them both badass, strong characters and that they get their time to shine. If I were to claim that Axel and Kairi looked weak af, he'd probably point to Axel and Kairi dropping one liners or holding their own in the battle before Roxas/Xion show up.

I think that they weren't weak on purpose, I think that they are weak because the story demands that they be weak. Not because of any in world training, or anything of the sort. They literally had a hyperbolic time chamber, there's no excuse for why they can't be ready. I see people say "they sparred against each other" or "they didn't have real enemies to fight". Well, neither did Sora or Riku before KH2 and they did just fine. Same with almost every Disney party member ever. Do you really think that Woody and Buzz practiced fighting well enough to take down giant heartless at the same strength level of Sora? Or Rapunzel, or Jack Skellington? Plus, Axel has proven himself to be a capable fighter, able to stop one of Xehanort's attacks handily. He could just spar with Kairi using his Chakrams instead.

There's really just no excuse for their weakness. We don't need to defend the bad writing with theories and headcanon with little to no evidence to support it.

I'm mad, I'm steaming. Why they gotta treat my boy Axel this way. He nearly took out Marluxia on his own, and was able to fight full strength Xion and win. He should at least be able to put up a fight. D:

In my headcannon, I think Nomura just does not like to write Kairi but other people on his staff does so he begrudging has to give her more stuff to do. Like just watch the KH3 opening and you think wow Kairi and Sora have this strong bond and even perhaps love for each other than the game falls flat of that.

So I am just going to believe Nomura did not really want Kairi to fight but this was his compromise which was not much better.