Kingdom Hearts & acknowledging LGBTQ+ content from Disney source material

[Sonofjafar]

Ehhhh. The biggest reason "giving Kairi a girlfriend" is unrealistic is because KH is unable to care about more than one girl per game. Imagine having to give TWO development! With each other! All at once!

True. But what I said is at least the second biggest

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

I’m not talking about him adding his own LGBTQ+ characters. I’m talking about him and the devs utilizing the ones that are present and will be present in future films without ignoring their identity or anything implied about their identity. Most of my examples don’t involve romance stories at all.

And that romance stuff is a load of crap. Nomura will utilize the romance stories present in the Disney films, regardless if they were the primary focus or not. For Mulan it wasn’t a focus but Mulan and Shang’s relationship is absolutely referenced in KH2.

Nomura literally has designed most of SE’s currently existing POC so I have no idea where this statement is coming from. FF7, FF8, FF10, FF13, KH itself which is full of POC characters (now there is a discuss to be had about colorism issues but lol we literally just got new POC with Vidar and Vali), FFO, and beyond…I would argue he’s one of the few designers and directors at the company who seems to care about diverse inclusions regardless of the intent and reasoning behind it.

And if you read my post just a few above, popularity of a film is not the deciding factor for the dev team when choosing worlds when they get to see most of them and make their pick before they are even in theaters. Popularity is only an indicator as far as predicting what they might choose because it means there is a higher chance they also enjoyed it like the masses. The ones I did mention were mainly examples of films with representation and how we are seeing more of it as we move forward in time.

Okay, now I see there’s been mutual miscommunication. Let me clarify and clear the air on what I previously wrote.

If the IPs (which have LGBT characters in them) make the cut, well and good. While I’m skeptical of those IPs’ inclusion for more practical reasons (i.e. their fiscal performance), and that’s something to be discussed sometime else, if they do get included in, their respective plot devices, including romances straight or otherwise, are going to get written in too since in essence the series do retellings of those IPs with a video game spin.

Utilising an existing romance that was already in the IPs is a good way to circumvent his…lack of writing romance. The Mulan-Shang thing is a good example. If, say, Strange World does make the cut, Ethan’s crush will probably be written in since it’s a plot device in the original film. Of course, it’s not as key as, say, his conflicting relationship with his dad, but it is a motivation of his character.

About Nomura and POCs, I’m not saying anything about colourism or a conscious lack of diversity. What I’m saying is that I believe diversity is probably not on the forefront of his mind when he designs as so much that he probably just draws what seems to match the aesthetic of the setting (e.g. Wakka who lives in Besaid which is an island that looks really tropical, so give him tanned skin that fits the aesthetic and move on to the next character), and it just so happens that animated media/comics in Japan always had a certain aesthetic when it comes to lead characters (when was the last time anyone saw an anime main character who’s supposed to be Japanese actually have brown eyes and black hair?) so I don’t find it surprising that most characters appear not POC as we understand it. I think we’re on agreement that when he designs characters who aren’t the stereotypical anime bishounen faux-European mold, he does so with intent, though, again, I believe said intent is more of a sense of aesthetics that fit an environment than anything deeper. I could be wrong, but who knows. The only one who knows the intent of design per work is the designer himself.

Ehhhh. The biggest reason "giving Kairi a girlfriend" is unrealistic is because KH is unable to care about more than one girl per game. Imagine having to give TWO development! With each other! All at once!

Or, you know, his writing style is just the opposite of this:

Character Focus - TV Tropes

There's a reason why ensemble series are successful. The cast's big enough to allow for a multitude of storylines, the number of cast members makes for dramatic action scenes, The Power of Friendship is accounted for, and most viewers will be …

tvtropes.org

 

[palizinhas]

Or, you know, his writing style is just the opposite of this:

Character Focus - TV Tropes

There's a reason why ensemble series are successful. The cast's big enough to allow for a multitude of storylines, the number of cast members makes for dramatic action scenes, The Power of Friendship is accounted for, and most viewers will be …

tvtropes.org

My good pal, he made a game about Xehanort and Eraqus' relationship. That he explicitly said had as its major focus their relationship. It was his dream game he spent years wanting to write.

 

[BufferAqua]

That would be a complete 180 from what’s been presented and built up.

It's literally a joke.

I’d prefer to not have any kind of sexual representation. KH is an action RPG and lore wise mixing up sexual orientation would add literally nothing in a story which focuses on Light, Darkness and Friendship. Furthermore, it’d just seem shoehorned and not like a natural part of the game.

So having any identity besides being straight is forced sexual representation now? Are Mickey and Minnie shoehorned?

Sora and Kairi have already shared the paupu fruit and Sora erased himself from existence to save her. Clearly Square has more than friendship in mind for these two. Giving Kairi a random tomboy girlfriend would just be a middle finger to everyone who has gotten attached to the story this franchise is trying to tell

Your issue with an obvious joke is strange.

 

[Chie]

"People are invested in Sora and Kairi's romance" is an incredibly laughable idea, but taking the bait of explaining stuff like that would derail the thread as usual...

As for Disney, I find it hard to imagine them touching this stuff nor outright censoring it/ignoring it. I'm not sure how wide the scope for picking Disney works will even be going forward, we're at a very weird spot for numerous reasons.

 

[Elysium]

I think it depends what you mean by acknowledging. Square hasn't managed to depict a single romantic relationship in the entire series properly. (Has any original character ever kissed someone?)

This isn't actually true. While Nomura has never wanted to confirm things firmly for ships with original KH characters other than SoKai, the series has always portrayed the Disney romantic couples as such. Aladdin and Jasmine, Beast and Belle, Aurora and Phillip, Ariel and Eric, Hercules and Megara, Jack and Sally, etc. Of course, I think the only one of those we've actually seen kiss are Ariel and Eric (in the credits scene of KH2). I guess Aladdin and Jasmine do (unshown) in the KH1 credits, too.

Raya is a flop, but mostly because it was dropped right at the beginning of the pandemic. Encanto came almost two years into the pandemic on the other hand, but I don't think it's considered a flop outright because it has been very successful in streaming, merchandise, and soundtrack / digital song sales. Strange World is a flop, but it probably has more chance appearing than something like Treasure Planet or The Black Cauldron do since Strange World is 3D and a recent film, whereas those are hand-drawn films which are appearing less and less in KH, and also released so far in the past that there's not much "push" to include them in the series from anyone's POV (Square's or Disney's) as with a more recent film, I suppose. I have a feeling Strange World could end up being a story that interests Nomura simply because it's about a world that's a living organism, some new territory for him to explore perhaps--but who knows.

I don't follow PIXAR films as closely, but I don't think Turning Red is a flop? Lightyear was, I guess, I don't know about Soul, Luca, Onward, etc.

 

[MATGSY]

My dream is for Kairi to realize she only likes Sora as a friend then becomes a sapphic queen with a tomboy asskicking girlfriend

We can meet in the middle and set her up with Xion.

 

[Face My Fears]

I think if DISNEY does a movie with the main storyline being a gay romance or focused on some sort of LGBT storyline, then if that world happens to be selected for KH, then it will be included. So really it just comes down to when DISNEY releases such a film.

For example, if Tangled were released now with Rapunzel/female love interest and they wanted to include it in KH, then they would HAVE to feature that in KH. I don't think Nomura would erase it as it's a central part of the plot (if a female were to take Eugene's role). So people shouldn't be putting the heat on Nomura, the heat should be on DISNEY to release a film like that.

Also, for anyone that is thinking that maybe Nomura should take "liberties" with the IPs and make fan theories a reality (like with Luca), just remember that DISNEY meticulously reviews and approves what he does with those properties. I seriously doubt that they will allow him to actually execute something that wasn't confirmed in the film.

 

[NoWay]

I’m not talking about “sexual representation”. I’m talking about identities. Also how is gay people being in KH “sexual representation” but all of the straight Disney couples not also “sexual representation”? I didn’t ask for a bunch of heteros to throw their romance in my face but I gotta sit there and watch Elizabeth worry over Will’s ass and Rapunzel and Eugene flirt. Please explain to me why that sexual representation is fine but oh no it’s an action RPG no room for gay people to exist?

But if you are talking about identities, then we have to talk about more than sexual identities. It’s not always about the sexual identity, many people also consider their ethnic background as their own identity for example.
A diverse representation of individuals in a video game always depends on what you consider as diverse. Is sexual diversity the only dimension that matters? No it’s not. Every dimension of diversity has the right of being talked about publicly. And there are many layers of diversity which the public discussion still fails to handle properly.
Isn’t sexual diversity, nowadays, the one that is represented the most in modern media?
I mean, come on. You can’t play the “no room for gay people” when also AAA games like TLOU Part 2 deal largely with that topic AND literally every other medium. Literally every Netflix series deals with LGBTQ+ topics, which is not meant as criticism, but as objectively assessing, what’s the case nowadays. And if one game or show or whatever deals with other topics, then it’s also okay.
Not every game has to deal with LGBTQ+ and isn’t homophobic either when it focuses other topics.

 

[Soldier]

There's also Tyler. I'm not sure if he was confirmed to be gay (or bi, at least) by the director or anything, but probably a heavily implied thing sort of like Ryan from High School Musical. He makes pink, heart-shaped googoo eyes over 4*Town at the concert at the end just like the four girls.

I always thought Ryan was really interested in Sharpay (I mean, I KNOW they are brother and sister, but you can't tell me that the way he acts throughout the films can't be seen as that kind of attraction, seriously watch the movies again and just forget that they are siblings, takes on a very creepy undertone).

 

[Sonofjafar]

It's literally a joke.

So having any identity besides being straight is forced sexual representation now? Are Mickey and Minnie shoehorned?

Your issue with an obvious joke is strange.

It was not obvious and the fact that you are willing to make my argument against this incredibly stupid idea seem like nothing is starting to piss me off

 

[Dandelion]

Sorry Ethy, you tried.

 

[Raz]

I always thought Ryan was really interested in Sharpay (I mean, I KNOW they are brother and sister, but you can't tell me that the way he acts throughout the films can't be seen as that kind of attraction, seriously watch the movies again and just forget that they are siblings, takes on a very creepy undertone).

That's just diva worship, babes. The gayest behavior of all.