Kingdom Hearts III Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Picklepaige]

With zero details, which characters get the best treatment (in terms of development and closure) and which get the worst?

I haven’t read any spoilers so no plot details please! Just want to know which characters I should go in with low expectations for, haha.

 

[furusatoe]

With zero details, which characters get the best treatment (in terms of development and closure) and which get the worst?

I haven’t read any spoilers so no plot details please! Just want to know which characters I should go in with low expectations for, haha.

There seems to be a pattern with the two people that responded to my similar question above that should help answer your question.

 

[Squood!]

Spoiler Show

I kinda got over the Kairi thing pretty quickly.

Because while the finale was leaking I just finished Mission 11 in my DMD run of DMC4 and I got reminded of how Credo was treated.

Like, you think Kairi being yoinked and shattered is bad?

Try getting killed halfway through the game you're introduced in and never get mentioned afterwards, not even having your own sister ask "Hay is Credo okay" and your boss fight is ignored in Mission 19, instead its just some Bianco and Alto Angelos

And then when a true sequel to the series you appeared in gets announced the only mention you get is an alternate color scheme

 

[Memory_Keeper]

Not sure if it’s been covered, but are we happy with Namine’s role in the story? Disappointed?

 

[UnicornisLord14]

It's sad that just yesterday, almost everyone was happy with the plot in KH3, and now I see everyone disappointed. ((
Very sad.

Spoiler Show

I'm still fine with the amount of KH3's story I saw this week, as well as the final battles in the Keyblade Graveyard and Scala Ad Caelum, which is insane and really cool to watch and can't wait to play it for myself. I do agree what happened with Kairi was mind boggling. As for the ending, it's interesting, especially with Sora disappearing. I am disappointed with Xehanort's motive, and I was baffled that he was redeemed just like that. Besides the whole Kairi and Xehanort issues, the game looks to be decent, but I'll save my opinions when I play the game myself.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Spoiler Show

My impressions and feelings on the game are not readily verifiable but I will talk about my perception on some things.

My BIGGEST problem with what I've seen is how they made a fool out of Aqua, one of the maturest and most respectable characters in this series. The fact that she is made to seem almost if not completely arrogant/lacking self-awareness was definitely a big headache for me (but nonetheless, her appearance greatly excited me). Why did the writers give her the persona of "this is my fight" in such a high-risk (and imo an anti-climatic situation (<----though this could be due to me watching the cutscene with no prior context)). On top of this, she is lying on the ground and ready to be harmed by Vanitus, and I just found the situation to be pretty cringy. I guess Nomura thought this would be acceptable since Aqua did tell Zack in BBS that "I can do this on my own" after Hades brought in the Ice Titan for a 2v1. Still, her behavior seemed very spontaneous and not very plausible. On top of this, I've read about her annoying moments during the Keyblade Graveyard, but I haven't watched the cutscenes. I hope nothing is as bad as The Land of Departure.

My second issue is the treatment of Kairi but we all know this. I am very conservative when it comes to comparing KH3 to FFXV but I can't ignore the comparison between Kairi and Lunafreya. I hope I am wrong about this one and Kairi is given substantial (or at least adequate) development prior to that chapter of the game. Additionally, why go through the trouble of concluding a series with a "death" after the entire saga was already based upon a burden "grief"... when KH3 was intended to put an end and make amends to Xehanort's wrongdoings? Why add on top of what the game was intended to solve? Although an epilogue and secret ending can shut down my concerns, it seems unlikely. Even so, if Kairi is "brought back," I find it annoying that the KH series seems unable to separate its plot from constant grief. The two are so intertwined, it's hard to imagine what ELSE the series has in store post-KH3; I surely hope it's not a situation of "someone experiences 'hurt' or grief, grief is prolonged, someone (likely Sora) comes to save said person, wash, rinse, and repeat." Before KH3 was leaked, I encouraged the series developing after KH3. However, if this all the series has in store, why should it be continued? (I'm not saying it absolutely should not, I am just questioning where the series is currently at with potential.)

Not to be a negative Nancy but these are just MY concerns. I am still excited for the game and I am sure I will get enjoyment out of it. Hopefully for my sake and the series' sake, things aren't as bad as they seem.

Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice

Spoiler Show

Kairi gets saved and it’s Sora who pays the price.

 

[KHRULER]

Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice Don’t think twice don’t think twice

Spoiler Show

Kairi gets saved and it’s Sora who pays the price.

Spoiler Show

Ugh, I'd rather that have happened in the first place without Kairi "dying"...except without the sacrifice either, just Sora "dying" period...not that I have a vendetta against Sora...

Excitement partially restored, though :smile:

EDIT: Still has me worried about the future of this series.

 

[Xblade13]

I have to say that I agree with Oracle Spockanort's thoughts on the game.

Spoiler Show

The game seems to have it's ups and downs. On the whole, I think I will quite enjoy it, as I have every Kingdom Hearts game. I doubt it'll be my favorite plot-wise, but it does do what it sets out to do: definitively end the whole Xehanort shenanigans. A lot of the character arcs end in a satisfactory way.

My favorite by far is the Days trio becoming the Twilight Town Seven with Roxas, Xion, Lea, Isa, Hayner, Pence, and Olette. I would honestly be happy with abandoning Riku, Kairi, and Sora and just having that bunch as the main protagonists next arc, but sadly I doubt it'll happen. Definitely the best characters in the series.

The BBS trio fared alright as well, and Terra especially gets bonus points for how badass his return is. Aqua on the other hand got shafted hard, and I have to wonder why they even bothered with the Anti-Aqua subplot at all. Ven is just kind of there.

Kairi though definitely got the worst out of ANYONE in this game. Seriously, how did this happen? I say that, when it comes time to interview Nomura, we as a community make it our number one priority to ask him, why Kairi is only ever a damsel in distress and why he can't seem to write her better. Anyone with me on that?

Xehanort getting redeemed at the end I saw coming honestly. In this series, people can do terrible things to each other, but they are never definitively "evil". Just misguided. His motives actually make a lot of sense and resonate with me personally. I too sometimes think resetting the world would do good for the future. But the point that Sora makes is that Xehanort shouldn't have decided this on his own. Not should he have done all the terrible things he did in his eagerness. The message is that anyone has the potential to be redeemed. And the fact people wanted Xehanort to be killed ultra hard actually says more about those people than it does about the writing of his character. Food for thought.

Even with all of the bad that is in it, KH3 looks like a fun and amazing experience in and of itself. And I hope that we can get to the bottom of this Kairi bullcrap so that things turn out better next time. Sadly there's nothing we can do for people set on leaving after 3... I myself will still await the next installment.

I'm calling it now though: the epilogue will be about how Sora saves Kairi and what exactly happened to him, and that will start the building up to KH4. Meanwhile, the secret ending will reveal the Fortellers and "Her", who will end up bringing the Twilight Town squad directly back into the plot of the next arc. Next arc villain is the Master of Masters. Expect another one or two subtitled "side games" that take place between 3 and 4, but not as long of a gap as between 2 and 3. Those games will be a "Days 2" about finding "Her" with Roxas and Co., and a "Kairi finding Sora" game.

 

[mriku90]

I love all the characters the Kingdom Hearts franchise has introduced for us. I have never looked at Kairi as nothing more then Sora's LI and also a POH and a keyblade weilder. My favorite female character in KH is Aqua. I feel people like Kairi because she's cute and she wears cute outfits for people to cosplay as. But as a character she has always left a lot to be desired. I still like her and I root for her and Sora.

I feel like Kairi is very similar to Aerith in terms of character development.

Side note do we think the epilogue is gonna be playable?

 

[Pokie]

My gut instinct tells me that

Spoiler Show

The Foretellers meet Sora in the Secret Ending while he's still missing and gives him some sort of new role. Because of this, I believe that Kairi will be the protagonist of the next Arc as she tries to bring her back. I don't believe for one second that they'll save Sora in the Epilogue or Secret Ending.

Spoiler Show

Not to be rude or anything, but we all thought that in KH2 she would be able to fight with Riku and Sora......but she gets pushed out before the Final Boss.

We all fought that after the DDD ending, that Kairi is going to be finally badass and playable, but then she gets *that* instead

If Kairi becomes the MC of KH4, I'll dye my hair Marge Simpson Blue.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Not sure if it’s been covered, but are we happy with Namine’s role in the story? Disappointed?

There is no role to speak of.

Awful.

 

[Squood!]

The countdown thread just feels pretty depressing to me now....maybe I shouldn't have stuck around.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I am so glad I'm not the only one who


finds most of the material we have seen to far concerning characters and their relationships with each other as rushed and almost paid no attention to.
I am in the same line as Spockanort with most things.

Like i.e. Roxas' return and how it happened is handled only with a few sentences spoken by him before the plot quickly moves forward again, he mentions Ansem the Wise having a hand in it and thus working to "atone" for what he once put him through but you never actually see anything in regards to it, them not even interacting once to show if their former antagonistic relationship somehow changed.

The "resolution" of Vanitas leaves one with a "what now?" face as while both Sora and Ven were willing to grant a second chance Vanitas just seems to be "lol nope, I like being evil" before he vanishes, the question if he's now gone for good or simply somewhere recuperating again not being answered (in Luxord's, Marluxia's and Larxene's cases it is outright stated they'll be recompleted as humans and Sora thinks he'll see them again one day) but Vanitas isn't a Nobody.
At least it gets firmly confirmed that both Ven and Vanitas are independent entities with their own hearts each.

In light of the two above I almost find the awakening of Ventus well done, even if what I read from some summaries the supposed special bond with Sora isn't really addressed much, they at least have some interaction, shake hands and Ven's return is actually shown compared to Roxas'.

Naminé seems to be almost non-existent while I haven't yet read anything too big spoilery about how Xion is handled, but the snippets I've come to know about Terra seem to imply that his case is handled the best (which does not need to mean much in regards to what the competition offers).

The actual reunion scenes between TAV and RAX were highlights it seems yet that doesn't mean much when it relies on past build up care for those characters and their known long suffering.
Everything else feels glossed over and there is neither an emotional buildup nor a [I]follow up[/I].

I have the suspicion that when it comes to some story parts and "solutions for character's problems" Nomura just wanted to "get over with it" and opted for the quickest and least impactful resolution available.

There seems to be a sort of rush to end the current saga storyline as quickly as possible in order to establish the new one whose setup is subtly but definitely placed throughout KH III itself, including all the pointers towards UX.

The individual relationships and characterisation of the characters be damned.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

Spoiler Show

I'm calling it now though: the epilogue will be about how Sora saves Kairi and what exactly happened to him, and that will start the building up to KH4. Meanwhile, the secret ending will reveal the Fortellers and "Her", who will end up bringing the Twilight Town squad directly back into the plot of the next arc. Next arc villain is the Master of Masters. Expect another one or two subtitled "side games" that take place between 3 and 4, but not as long of a gap as between 2 and 3. Those games will be a "Days 2" about finding "Her" with Roxas and Co., and a "Kairi finding Sora" game.

Nah, KH3 took so long just to stall until Disney gives permission for SE to use Pixar properties because Nomura insists that without Pixar movies, there be no KH3 even back in 2006. So with the permission already granted, I don't think that the gap between KH3 and KH4 wouldn't be as wide as KH2 and KH3.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Sorry for the spoiler ;-;.

I am so glad I'm not the only one who


finds most of the material we have seen to far concerning characters and their relationships with each other as rushed and almost paid no attention to.
I am in the same line as Spockanort with most things.

Like i.e. Roxas' return and how it happened is handled only with a few sentences spoken by him before the plot quickly moves forward again, he mentions Ansem the Wise having a hand in it and thus working to "atone" for what he once put him through but you never actually see anything in regards to it, them not even interacting once to show if their former antagonistic relationship somehow changed.

The "resolution" of Vanitas leaves one with a "what now?" face as while both Sora and Ven were willing to grant a second chance Vanitas just seems to be "lol nope, I like being evil" before he vanishes, the question if he's now gone for good or simply somewhere recuperating again not being answered (in Luxord's, Marluxia's and Larxene's cases it is outright stated they'll be recompleted as humans and Sora thinks he'll see them again one day) but Vanitas isn't a Nobody.
At least it gets firmly confirmed that both Ven and Vanitas are independent entities with their own hearts each.

In light of the two above I almost find the awakening of Ventus well done, even if what I read from some summaries the supposed special bond with Sora isn't really addressed much, they at least have some interaction, shake hands and Ven's return is actually shown compared to Roxas'.

Naminé seems to be almost non-existent while I haven't yet read anything too big spoilery about how Xion is handled, but the snippets I've come to know about Terra seem to imply that his case is handled the best (which does not need to mean much in regards to what the competition offers).

The actual reunion scenes between TAV and RAX were highlights it seems yet that doesn't mean much when it relies on past build up care for those characters and their known long suffering.
Everything else feels glossed over and there is neither an emotional buildup nor a [I]follow up[/I].

I have the suspicion that when it comes to some story parts and "solutions for character's problems" Nomura just wanted to "get over with it" and opted for the quickest and least impactful resolution available.

There seems to be a sort of rush to end the current saga storyline as quickly as possible in order to establish the new one whose setup is subtly but definitely placed throughout KH III itself, including all the pointers towards UX.

The individual relationships and characterisation of the characters be damned.

I'm at least willing to wait until the Epilogue. I really doubt it can cover what was missed throughout the game, but I'm willing.

Spoiler Show

Naminè has a voice credit, after all. As do the foretellers. Supposedly. But you're right, it seems like they want to wrap up the Xehanort saga to start up the new one asap.

 

[Pokie]

Nah, KH3 took so long just to stall until Disney gives permission for SE to use Pixar properties because Nomura insists that without Pixar movies, there be no KH3 even back in 2006. So with the permission already granted, I don't think that the gap between KH3 and KH4 wouldn't be as wide as KH2 and KH3.

Yeah, but the FFVII Remake though ?

 

[alexis.anagram]

What really bites is that

Spoiler Show

for those of us who predicted what was going to happen with Kairi based off every indication in the late stage trailers and whatnot, we were admonished to "stop pretending" to know what would happen and "wait to play the game," because people wanted to inject their wishful thinking that Kairi would subvert her archetype and progress as a character in some magically gratifying fashion. And now that not only were our fears confirmed, but it's actually worse than we had anticipated, there's this collective attempt to spin the whole thing and justify her fridging as an attempt to enhance Sora's heroism and bring his journey full circle, as if that serves as a valid defense of the material when it's the central argument behind the original complaint. That she is so thoroughly minimized in her reduction to, yet again, a girl-shaped prop who contributes nothing but a source of arousal and pathos for the main male protagonist is not an attractive feature of this game and it's a bad look given the large base of support KH as a series enjoys from female fans (IIRC it's estimated at half or more?), and there's an unfortunate lack of consideration for the kinds of messaging it sends to young girls and women who may choose to pick up this game, especially when taken in context with both KH3's and the series' broader treatment of female characters.

And, really, it just speaks to the larger problem with this game's writing, because as much as I've seen fans attempt to compartmentalize the "Kairi problem", her treatment is fully consistent with the kind of laziness and indifference that characterizes the approach to all of the key elements of this story. The ending is not rewarding because it is entirely predicated upon borrowed emotion from past titles which are not properly rediscovered and conveyed utilizing the internal framework of KH3. Instead of a game that sells itself on imagining and realizing these characters as an ensemble, what we get is bloated, tedious, and unfocused emotional jargon: there's a stark disconnect between the rushed and contrived manners in which these protagonists are restored and the urgency underlining that and then the swiftness with which they are made utterly disposable to the final resolution. Their arcs are scuttled to a close using convenient excuses instead of taking the time to engage and finish the conflicts their original games started, or even to retain a modicum of consistency following from those games. (i.e. Eraqus not even apologizing to Terra and then enlisting him to "look after" Aqua and Ven even though it was Aqua that fought her way through the RoD for years to save her friends and to whom he entrusted his own effin' Keyblade.) The game just thunderously collapses under the weight of its own premise and tries to scrabble together some semblance of eleventh hour sentimentality to try and mask that but it's far too little, too late. And then it rests its last, gasping attempt to keep the audience hooked on a romantic subplot that was never believable or earned in the first place, made considerably worse through the game's own ironically regressive attempts to develop the drama of it, and which ultimately functions as nothing but trite, predictable sequel bait.

I do agree that the ever uncomplicated sea salt trio ultimately got it best though, and I'm taking the Xion and Namine shell collection bit as confirmation that they are about to be dating, and since I won't be considering anything that happens after this game remotely relevant Nomura can never prove me wrong.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

Yeah, but the FFVII Remake though ?

In terms of years count, or SE games as a whole, perhaps there is more, yes, but I was referring to non-numbered titles of KH itself in between. Between KH2 and KH3 we have Days, Coded, BBS, DDD, and Chi.That's 5 games. I don't think between KH3 and KH4 we will have more non-numbered that much, maybe just 1-2, 3 at most.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I'm at least willing to wait until the Epilogue. I really doubt it can cover what was missed throughout the game, but I'm willing.

Spoiler Show

Naminè has a voice credit, after all. As do the foretellers. Supposedly. But you're right, it seems like they want to wrap up the Xehanort saga to start up the new one asap.

I keep forgetting the epilogue, lol.
It would have to be as long as the ending though and really go with a character-focused main premise to salvage some of the most grating rushed parts though.
So I'll ask to be excused for being skeptical.

Spoiler Show

Yea, this indicates at least a few spoken lines. Naminé and her memory powers could be the first link to follow in order to find Sora again anyways. Maybe Roxas and Ven will also play a role with their own connections to Sora which have been woefully ignored in all I've seen so far in KH III. The scene where Sora wakes Ven is nice and they do acknowledge each other, but it too feels somewhat rushed and short.
Y'know, I actually find the scene of Ansem the Wise and Ienzo restoring Naminé to be quite cute and heartwarming and I'd like to believe the first thing she hears is Ansem apologizing to her for his awful treatment, but that scene should have happened two thirds into the game, not during the damn ending.
Not to mention Roxas' restoration and him facing Ansem should have been shown too.
Roxas gets a badass entrance and some cool words combined with being a super effective party member for one fight, but that's all there is.
Afterwards, he joins the BBS Trio, Lea and Xion in being background eye candy.

The way how they seem to just work down a checklist to deal with each individual character and their problems and arcs so far is especially jarring when you do care about most of these characters.
Seeing parts of the ending and how beautiful and rewarding some of these scenes feel gets a sour aftertaste when you realize for yourself that you personally see those scenes as what they are solely from prior buildup in the whole series and scarcely anything done by KH III itself.

It also seems that Nomura still can't let go of several of the side characters as at least Marluxia, Larxene and Luxord seem to be set to appear again, Isa is already proven.
Vanitas is a weird issue right now as at least to me his ultimate fate hangs in the air, same goes for Xigbar/Braig.

There are so far six characters I can seriously assume we've seen the last of and those are
- Master Xehanort
- Ansem SoD
- Xemnas
- Young Xehanort
- Eraqus
- Riku Replica

 

[KingMickeyMouse]

Spoilers made me much more happy and confident in this game’s quality after seeing how all those generic original characters get relegated and just straight-up lose relevance in the story, and all the Disney characters were made to be the competent, badasses instead!

After 13 years, Nomura finally delivered!