Kingdom Hearts III Pre-Release Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Oracle Spockanort]

Wat?

KH has turned into shonen trash again. Ballad is expressing his feelings of the shonen-level convolution by renaming the series into its proper name.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

KH has turned into shonen trash again. Ballad is expressing his feelings of the shonen-level convolution by renaming the series into its proper name.

Ah, I think I get it now.
He's comparing KH III to KH II's level in terms of standard anime shonen storytelling tropes. Does that mean we'll need a bunch of side games again to fix the mess this causes? Or just some of the "free" DLC stuff Nomura speaks about in the current interview?

In one scene where Lea speaks about having to "iron out some plot points" while Sora was apart from all the other characters this reeks for me of interesting stuff happening behind the scenes we're not privy to just like it was in KH II as well.


Sorry, I can be a bit slow on the uptake these days.
While I am not very hyped outwardly there is a sort of inner unrest nonetheless.

 

[KHFan91]

So, some people are saying that the Kingdom Hearts series doesn't treat their female characters well?

No offense or anything, but I'm sure that there are other video games and series that are even worse in that regard.

 

[Darkspawn]

So, some people are saying that the Kingdom Hearts series doesn't treat their female characters well?

No offense or anything, but I'm sure that there are other video games and series that are even worse in that regard.

I don’t think other games giving worse treatment of their female characters excuses KH from criticism on that subject.

 

[DraceEmpressa]

Spoiler Show

I admit I haven't seen all leaks and spoilers because I haven't been actively looking at them, but how exactly is the impact of i.e. Ventus and Lea getting offed in one swing by Terra-Xehanort not the same extent of Aqua getting one shotted by a Darkness blast from Ansem SoD or Vanitas? It's exactly the same situation where all those characters are used as doormats despite there being knowledge for the audience that they all are capable of doing better?

"Cutscene incompetence" is the trope applying here I think but this isn't sex-coded either.

The scenes in the "labyrinth" aren't any different as everyone is incapable of actually winning until Sora shows up, be it Mickey with Luxord & co, Riku with Ansem SoD and the Replica, Aqua and Ven with Vanitas and Terranort etc.

It's also not Aqua alone who just stands there gawking and doing nothing in the Terra-Xehanort scenes so she isn't to blame for being "useless" alone. Mickey, Goofy, Ventus and even Sora himself also just stand there letting themselves get wrecked while Lea and Riku react only with a considerable delay. The only one reacting correctly is Donald and even he gets a drama-induced delay.

Maybe you have a different view coming from another base but I do not interpret these things as a deliberate decision to make specifically Aqua look bad because she's female, I see it more like a decision made to let look everyone look bad for the sake of a fake high drama scenario that when looking at it in the whole context doesn't even make sense to be there.
If the main point is to have the Lingering Will show up as a great savior they could have made it so from the get-go and without having everyone look like they completely lost their brain.
Aqua already fought Terra-Xehanort and should know how to at least slow him down, Mickey is supposed to be as awesome as Yoda from Star Wars and Ven is supposed to be one of the fastest characters with incredible reflexes yet Terra-Xehanort can take him out with one single blow (which in itself is not wrong since Ven's body is rather fragile because he's a speed-oriented character, but he should have the ability to dodge such a move).
If they have to have this scene where everyone goes down and then need to be revived they could have at least done so without having everyone look like six year olds kindergartners with the reaction time of a turtle.

Does it really matter so much who acts as the liasion between the "Light of the past" (as Eraqus and Ven put it) and the present day heroes? It's a few second cameo scene at best?

Maybe I am just not seeing that there is some special "malevolent" element in the framing that specifically targets only female characters, as most of the examples given also apply to several other characters.
When you look at the scene of Xehanort murdering Kairi for Sora's "manpain" you could say that the scene where Terra-Xehanort wrecks Ven serves the same purpose for Aqua so it's a thing with switched roles.

Ok, I have to admit that the only thing I DO understand about this is the part of Maleficent being the reason some of the Union leaders & Dandelions end up in the future.
The other stuff is lost on me, sorry.

That's what I mean by selective sympathy. People only feel bad when bad things happen to groups they care for even when it happens to the entire roster, and when people show that, I know from that point perspective of the other side is meaningless.

No problem, I did expect that, to even considered to not put that under spoiler. And there is some Pandora Hearts too, oh my oh my. Either way, here goes the explanation, which of course goes to the explanation.

Spoiler Show

Maleficent is apparently aided (or taught) by Darkness to do that.

The crossover stuffs:

Ou Tenkun from Hoshin Engi is the dark half of the the MC Taikoubou, who had fiddled and killed many for the sole reason for completing himself. His crimes are swept under the rug because the people he wronged is aware they need the power of the original being so badly.He even says this:
"I am the mirror that reflects the darkness to your heart. And you, is the mirror that reflect light to mine." Isn't this so Vanitas to say to Ventus?

Arba from Magi is an insanely dedicated sorceress to her goal. She jumped from body to body for thousands of years, creates an entire dynasty and ruled from the shadows, just so she can watch the world burn just so she can summon her god, Ill Ilah. And I've read somewhere else that if you understand (far) east philosophy, Kingdom Hearts is , basically, God, so that's the parallel for Luxu if his goal is to summon Kingdom Hearts.

Tasha Godspell is the MC of the manhwa Witch Hunter, who turns out to be the reincarnation of THE strongest character in the work, Witch of the West. And the main villains goal is to revert Tasha back to West , which what I mean by Sora pulling a Tasha.

As for the Pandora Hearts one, in Pandora Hearts there is also time-travel stuff where people who fell into the Abyss only gets out several years later (often a decade, even a century) and sometimes are amnesiac as well, that's where what happened to the Union Leaders reminded me to.

 

[Sephinort]

Me trying to process all the theories, spoilers, and thoughts in my own head after reading these posts

 

[Nutari]

Oof, it sounds like things have gone from an FF/Disney crossover to

Spoiler Show

Generic Shonen with Shippuden levels of nonsense and disorder

 

[Sephiroth0812]

@Sephiroth

Spoiler Show

That scene is just so weird and off it feels like it came from an alternate universe. I still stand by my theory that it was most likely one of the possible Disney interferences the game probably had.

Everyone not really acting like themselves, getting taken down incredibly easily, DONALD DIDDLYING DUCK being the only one who did something by way of pulling a spell outta his ass and one-shotting Terranort as if he was the main character...it's just weird.

Thank god the game itself pretends it never existed a while later.

Damn, I totally overlooked answering this one in my last post:

Spoiler Show

I would have to lie if I said this isn't so far my most hated scene in KH III, closely followed by Xehanort offing Kairi like it's Tuesday and the general "Only Sora accomplishes anything"-issue that the whole final segment is riddled with.
All the other characters (except Naminé) are saved from their torment or captivity and, where necessary, revived but are reduced to only background bystanders. It's such a damn waste.

Thing is, objectively spoken I can even see reasons why this whole Terra-Xehanort wrecks everyone scene happens, but the execution of it is so awful that even facepalming at it is not enough of an appropriate reaction.
The characters acting like completely incompetent fools and totally OOC in that scene totally breaks it regardless of what the intention is.

I could totally see this being the part which the leaker described as "meh".

I don’t think other games giving worse treatment of their female characters excuses KH from criticism on that subject.

Complete agreement on this one.
There are certainly problems to address in this field, yet as DraceEmpressa says it feels that in some of the examples given there is selective sympathy at work.

That's what I mean by selective sympathy. People only feel bad when bad things happen to groups they care for even when it happens to the entire roster, and when people show that, I know from that point perspective of the other side is meaningless.

No problem, I did expect that, to even considered to not put that under spoiler. And there is some Pandora Hearts too, oh my oh my. Either way, here goes the explanation, which of course goes to the explanation.

Spoiler Show

Maleficent is apparently aided (or taught) by Darkness to do that.

The crossover stuffs:

Ou Tenkun from Hoshin Engi is the dark half of the the MC Taikoubou, who had fiddled and killed many for the sole reason for completing himself. His crimes are swept under the rug because the people he wronged is aware they need the power of the original being so badly.He even says this:
"I am the mirror that reflects the darkness to your heart. And you, is the mirror that reflect light to mine." Isn't this so Vanitas to say to Ventus?

Arba from Magi is an insanely dedicated sorceress to her goal. She jumped from body to body for thousands of years, creates an entire dynasty and ruled from the shadows, just so she can watch the world burn just so she can summon her god, Ill Ilah. And I've read somewhere else that if you understand (far) east philosophy, Kingdom Hearts is , basically, God, so that's the parallel for Luxu if his goal is to summon Kingdom Hearts.

Tasha Godspell is the MC of the manhwa Witch Hunter, who turns out to be the reincarnation of THE strongest character in the work, Witch of the West. And the main villains goal is to revert Tasha back to West , which what I mean by Sora pulling a Tasha.

As for the Pandora Hearts one, in Pandora Hearts there is also time-travel stuff where people who fell into the Abyss only gets out several years later (often a decade, even a century) and sometimes are amnesiac as well, that's where what happened to the Union Leaders reminded me to.

Oh, the perspective of the other side may still be acknowledged, but it will certainly be put as subordinate to the group the selective sympathy is shown towards.

Spoiler Show

That makes sense as they talk about Maleficent getting help from Darkness to return to her proper time. Just how the Dandelions and the five leaders will be involved is still a mystery.

I haven't seen any spoilers in regards to Ven and Vanitas, the only thing I know from summaries is that Aqua, Sora and Ven fight Vanitas together and when they win there is some talk which affirms that Ven and Vanitas each have their own heart and thus being, yet both Ven and Sora are willing to give Vanitas a chance despite all his crimes yet he declines, then just vanishes and his actual fate is unknown.

This would certainly point towards Luxu being the main villain of the next saga.

Sora being a reincarnation of the MoM is so far only a theory, isn't it? Or are there actual tangible implications towards it in the secret reports?

Ah yea, that makes sense, also in relation to the whole "time capsule" theory that was floating around sometime around here.

 

[GrumpyRoxy]

Sooo... KH3 is (so far) the game with the higher metascore of the franchise.

What do you guys think of that? I'm hyped as diddly

 

[Dandelion]

Game's out now. I've never been more happy to close a thread.