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'Kingdom Hearts' in BBS



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Iridium

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The question is why they were destroyed. They are all homes to Princesses of Heart, so could Malecificent's plot have something to do with it?

I wouldn't be surprised, considering the time frame it could have been Maleficents doing or rather the unleashing of the heartless by Xehanort could have been the cause of the destruction of their respective homeworlds.

Another world that was destroyed was Pinocchio's home world. We know it was destroyed prior to Kingdom Hearts, so one could assume it would be in bbs, but it wasn't. Could Pinocchio's home world have been destroyed as a result of the Keyblade War?

Quite doubtful of that considering the keyblade war seems to be even before the time Master Xehanort or even Eraqus for that matter.

Several worlds such as the Land of Departure, Deep Space, and most importantly, Keyblade Graveyard just disappeared after the events of bbs. They weren't destroyed but they just disappeared and were never heard from since...even after Sora restored all worlds at the End of The World.

Land of Depature became Castle Oblivion so it didn't really disappear. As for the graveyard, it still exists, it just hasn't reappeared besides the Terra's sentiment boss fight because it isn't currently all that relevant to the plot of the series. That is until BBS, even then it was a graveyard; the remains of the war, aside from the war itself taking place there it really holds no more importance then the other disney worlds like the Pride Lands or Olympus Coliseum.

Also, it's not just at a story standpoint, it's also to keep things fresh for the player. Worlds that had a completed plot were left behind, while lands that had more backstory that could be added were included in further KH sequels. What I mean by this is movie tie in's since then could be written into the plot of the game or rather plots from the original movies being tied into the plot.

Btw, Deep Space wasn't a "world" in the conventional sense, just a level that took place in a certain area of space.

Could Vanitas have caused an imbalance just as Xehanort predicted? And could this imbalance have fragmented the structure of the universe?

Considering Vanitas' demise has wiped away the existence of the unversed, the main threat at the time, his influence on the KH universe is small compared to his masters future incarnations deeds IE creating the artificial heartless, bringing the heartless out of the dark realm to attack the realm of light etc.
 

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That depends on what he means by a "qualified heart." It's not necessarily just a strong heart, but a heart that has come in contact with a keyblade.
Additionally, MX describes the keyblades as "man-made," which seems to go against that sort of metaphysical conception that a keyblade is magically created when someone just has a strong heart.

I guess I've always thought that Keyblades appear to certain people when the worlds really needed it. I think it's more than coincidence that Sora got the Keyblade by touching Riku's light; he must have been qualified somehow, especially seeing as he went through the station of awakening dream so soon before. So why would the Keyblade go to Sora when he'd never come into contact with one before?

I know MX says they are man-made, but I doubt that means they are actually physically forged with fire and steel. MX himself had to go flying around looking for answers as to where the Keyblade came from, didn't he? So he had obviously never seen one be created, despite him having one.

Yeah, it's hard to say. The only confirmed Dark realm Keyblade we have to work with is the IKK, so we can't infer much. Are all dark realm keyblades necessarily from the realm of darkness? Moreover, if a heart is required to wield one, what are they doing essentially owner-less?

Perhaps dark-realm Keyblades... belonged to the people on the dark side of the Keyblade War. And their hearts are still Heartless, so their Keyblades are still around...... nooo idea really...

xD
Actually, when you think of it, that would sort of make the RoL the "Nobody" since it was the one who got its heart stolen... lol.

You're right! Then... the RoI is.... Namine?

Had to come from somewhere.

Kind of lends credence to the 'Xehanort didn't invent Heartless' thing, doesn't it...

But the KH in KH1 is described as the Heart of All Worlds. Each of the worlds' hearts ought to be connected to that heart, which makes it what you might call the "core." I would think that the core would be essential to a complete Kingdom Hearts.

I mean, let me put it in a different context. I know you believe, as I, that a person's heart is born from that Kingdom Hearts. A world is not just the literal world, it includes the people and the environment. So, in a sense, each world's heart is like Kingdom Hearts- an amalgamation of hearts. And all of these hearts come from the KH in the Dark Realm, making the world's heart inextricably linked to it.

But, then what is the point if the 'true light' being locked away in the deepest darkness? What does that change, then?

I see the heart of each individual world as having originally been a piece of the original KH, but it has grown since then into a small but functioning Kingdom that can sustain a small world.

But, I have to disagree that people's hearts are born into the worlds through each world's heart. Because... when Sora locked the keyholes to those hearts, wouldn't that mean nobody would be able to be born??

I think they are more like something that keeps a world alive. I think the people's hearts, when they are born from the original KH deep in the RoD, travel through whatever dimension all the stations of awakening are in. Heartspace or something.

Oh, make no mistake, that was what Ansem SoD was doing, but only up till he went into the Final Keyhole.
But Xemnas' priority was collecting peoples' hearts. Ansem SoD's priority was not to collect worlds' hearts (though, he does do this), but to gather the PoH and complete the Final Keyhole.

Well, I think technically it was Maleficent's goal to destroy the worlds like that anyway...

In any case... how do you see this weakening my 3 Kingdoms theory?
 
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I guess I've always thought that Keyblades appear to certain people when the worlds really needed it. I think it's more than coincidence that Sora got the Keyblade by touching Riku's light; he must have been qualified somehow, especially seeing as he went through the station of awakening dream so soon before. So why would the Keyblade go to Sora when he'd never come into contact with one before?

He was qualified because of Ven's heart.
And before anyone says anything about how Sora didn't "inherit" anything from Ven's heart, that clearly is not in reference to the ability to wield.
First, if he didn't get his ability to wield from Ven, then that would directly contradict how Nomura said Sora isn't "special" but a normal boy. His ability to wield would have come from no one but himself, making him the only character capable of such a feat.

Moreover, would I say that Sora didn't get the ability to dual wield from Ven's heart? Of course not. We know it's because of Ven's heart. The second keyblade is, after all, Ven's. Sora inherited Ven's keyblade from the connection of their hearts. So when Nomura is talking about "inheriting," he's not talking about the keyblade.

I know MX says they are man-made, but I doubt that means they are actually physically forged with fire and steel. MX himself had to go flying around looking for answers as to where the Keyblade came from, didn't he? So he had obviously never seen one be created, despite him having one.

I don't think he means forged in the conventional sense either- like every wielder makes their keyblade. Rather, keyblades were created by man however long ago, and the ability to wield was passed down "magically."
The X-Blade is the only "keyblade" which has existed naturally.


You're right! Then... the RoI is.... Namine?

It can control the memories of the RoD. lol


Kind of lends credence to the 'Xehanort didn't invent Heartless' thing, doesn't it...

Well, yeah, it does now. Because we know he didn't.
If, supposing, he did, then it would still make sense.
Xehanort makes the heartless, they steal hearts, and go to the Dark Realm, "the place where stolen hearts gather."


But, then what is the point if the 'true light' being locked away in the deepest darkness? What does that change, then?

It changes the way you can get to Kingdom Hearts. By creating an alternative to the DtD route, the PoH will no longer have to be a plot point.
And I don't think it cancels out the idea of KH being locked away in the RoD, either.
The X-Blade summons Kingdom Hearts, it doesn't free it. It's a temporary state.

But, I have to disagree that people's hearts are born into the worlds through each world's heart. Because... when Sora locked the keyholes to those hearts, wouldn't that mean nobody would be able to be born??

I didn't mean each world's heart, I meant Kingdom Hearts in the RoD, lol. I know you believe this as well as I- that, for example, when Sora's heart was born, it came from Kingdom Hearts and passed into the RoL.

What I was also saying was that each individual heart in a world makes up that world's heart.
The world doesn't have a heart by itself, it's created by the bonds between the people and things (including the trees/water/etc) on that world.
That's basically what I got from:
Think of the basic setting of KH as "All life has a heart". The heart of a world can be considered the things of nature, for example, the trees in a forest, a sea or river, a flower and so forth, when they all come together to form a world a large heart will come into existence. And concerning the hearts designated to men, all the hearts of humans and animals living in the world are integrated. As for Kingdom Hearts, think of it as if the heart is essentially the culmination of an invisible "Proof of Life"

Well, I think technically it was Maleficent's goal to destroy the worlds like that anyway...

In any case... how do you see this weakening my 3 Kingdoms theory?

Maleficent wanted to "rule all worlds" but she was too stupid to see that she would be destroying them. xD
My point was that I think that the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 wasn't just the core, it was a collection of all the world's hearts taken by the Heartless. But unlike Xemnas, Xehanort's Heartless wasn't aiming to collect these hearts "forcibly and artificially," one heart at a time, but by gaining access to them beyond the Final Keyhole.
 

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It can control the memories of the RoD. lol
^the plot of KH3D

Maleficent wanted to "rule all worlds" but she was too stupid to see that she would be destroying them. xD
My point was that I think that the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 wasn't just the core, it was a collection of all the world's hearts taken by the Heartless. But unlike Xemnas, Xehanort's Heartless wasn't aiming to collect these hearts "forcibly and artificially," one heart at a time, but by gaining access to them beyond the Final Keyhole.
You're correct. The 3rd Xehanort report states "Kingdom Hearts could be described as an aggregate of hearts. Worlds, too, have hearts, just like people; each world's heart is concealed from sight, beyond a hidden door. By gathering all the hearts of all the worlds in a single place, one may complete Kingdom Hearts."

So even before the worlds were separated by walls of light they each had their individual hearts. And it says that KH1 is the union of all those hearts. So KH1 is definitely the heart of every world combined. It says earlier that gathering hearts is what the people in the Keyblade War were trying to do. They were trying to piece it together. Then, in Xehanort report 7, it says about the X-Blade (which this theory states summons KH0) "the walls that divide the worlds today are of little consequence. With the χ-blade, all their[the worlds'] hearts could be instantly reunited." So the X-Blade unites all the hearts of the worlds and then summons it. All the hearts of the all the worlds. Sounds just like KH1.

Also, this theory still does not explain the KH in BbS, since KH appears before the X-Blade is made. My explanation: Nomura made a 'oops'.

By the way, does anyone know why XH didn't have to use a Keyblade of heart to open the DtD? The Keyblade of heart was never completed. It shattered before Kairi's heart emerged from Sora.
 

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He was qualified because of Ven's heart.
And before anyone says anything about how Sora didn't "inherit" anything from Ven's heart, that clearly is not in reference to the ability to wield.
First, if he didn't get his ability to wield from Ven, then that would directly contradict how Nomura said Sora isn't "special" but a normal boy. His ability to wield would have come from no one but himself, making him the only character capable of such a feat.

Moreover, would I say that Sora didn't get the ability to dual wield from Ven's heart? Of course not. We know it's because of Ven's heart. The second keyblade is, after all, Ven's. Sora inherited Ven's keyblade from the connection of their hearts. So when Nomura is talking about "inheriting," he's not talking about the keyblade.

Hmmmm I think we need more evidence before we can draw that conclusion, personally. Nomura hasn't even really explained Roxas and Ven's connection in the game yet, so I have hope... lol

I don't think he means forged in the conventional sense either- like every wielder makes their keyblade. Rather, keyblades were created by man however long ago, and the ability to wield was passed down "magically."
The X-Blade is the only "keyblade" which has existed naturally.

But that implies that there are a limited number of Keyblades... and that the Keyblade one wielder holds might have belonged to someone else. But the canon seems to say that a Keyblade is a pretty personal thing.

It can control the memories of the RoD. lol

Well if dead people really do sleep there... maybe it does 8D

It changes the way you can get to Kingdom Hearts. By creating an alternative to the DtD route, the PoH will no longer have to be a plot point.
And I don't think it cancels out the idea of KH being locked away in the RoD, either.
The X-Blade summons Kingdom Hearts, it doesn't free it. It's a temporary state.

But then whyyy did that KH appear before the X-blade was even summoned...? And you'd think bringing it out of the jail of the RoD would be the same thing as freeing it. Heart is in the box. Take heart out of the box. What is stopping it from doing things once it's outside the RoD?

I'm still not convinced. I don't think it's a second way to get to the original KH, I still think it's a new KH...

I didn't mean each world's heart, I meant Kingdom Hearts in the RoD, lol. I know you believe this as well as I- that, for example, when Sora's heart was born, it came from Kingdom Hearts and passed into the RoL.

I thought you mean that each world heart was connected to KH, and that's how hearts were born into each world... like, a doorway or something. Ah...

What I was also saying was that each individual heart in a world makes up that world's heart.
The world doesn't have a heart by itself, it's created by the bonds between the people and things (including the trees/water/etc) on that world.

But that heart does physically exist, too, and it sits safely behind the keyhole. I think that's how the worlds came to exist; they were built around pieces of light, and then the hearts of everything in those worlds made that piece of heart grow over time into a real proper heart.

My point was that I think that the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 wasn't just the core, it was a collection of all the world's hearts taken by the Heartless. But unlike Xemnas, Xehanort's Heartless wasn't aiming to collect these hearts "forcibly and artificially," one heart at a time, but by gaining access to them beyond the Final Keyhole.

If all the worlds had merged back with the core, then when all the worlds were restored at the end of KH, why didn't the true light come too?

Even so, I think that the KH in BBS is simply all the world hearts brought into one Kingdom Hearts, but whatever in the RoD is left out. The differentiation between the PoH blade and the Xblade and the grandiosity of having it locked away in deepest darkness just makes it very hard for me to believe it's not.

Of course when Nomura says how it works, if he ever does, then I'll have to change my mind...
 
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Also, this theory still does not explain the KH in BbS, since KH appears before the X-Blade is made. My explanation: Nomura made a 'oops'.

Pretty much.

By the way, does anyone know why XH didn't have to use a Keyblade of heart to open the DtD? The Keyblade of heart was never completed. It shattered before Kairi's heart emerged from Sora.

The Keyblade of Heart was completed. When Sora stabbed himself, it connected with Kairi's heart. Seven hearts of pure light.
Notice how the Keyblade disintegrated into their hearts after Sora stabbed himself. Why? It's not like he destroyed the keyblade.

Because that's what it was meant to do.

When you bring a normal keyblade near the door of a world's heart, the keyhole appears.
But for the Final Keyhole, the Keyblade of Heart is required to make it appear. And the Keyblade of Heart was completed when Sora stabbed himself. It served its purpose and separated into its components.

EDIT:

But that implies that there are a limited number of Keyblades... and that the Keyblade one wielder holds might have belonged to someone else. But the canon seems to say that a Keyblade is a pretty personal thing.

Well, there are already examples of keyblades being past down. Eraqus to Aqua. Yen Sid to Mickey. Ven to Sora. And, hell, we just know at least one of Riku's keyblades is not from his own heart.
I don't think it really limits the number of keyblades any more than it already has been.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself clearly.
I'm not saying that, literally, every keyblade was created in the beginning and then past down. Rather, the keyblades were first created, endowed with magical powers which allowed the original wielders to pass down the ability through essentially connecting it to the heart of a worthy one. So it's not like, say, Aqua's keyblade has always existed since the dawn of keyblades. Rather, Eraqus passed down his ability to wield to her, and her heart created her own keyblade. But not out of thin air, either.
Keyblades aren't something that you can obtain suddenly out of nowhere so in Riku's case, his Soul Eater was used as an intermediary for that Keyblade

I know it might be hard to accept the idea that the keyblade was "man-made," but really, most weapons in the series aren't much different. They can conjure up magical abilities.

But then whyyy did that KH appear before the X-blade was even summoned...? And you'd think bringing it out of the jail of the RoD would be the same thing as freeing it. Heart is in the box. Take heart out of the box. What is stopping it from doing things once it's outside the RoD?

I'm still not convinced. I don't think it's a second way to get to the original KH, I still think it's a new KH...

KH was summoned prior to the creation because of a plot hole, lol. It contradicts what MX says in his own reports.
"Summoning" is pretty different from "freeing."
Heart is in box. Take Heart out of box. With a string. Attached to a stick.
That Stick is the X-Blade. It controls the appearance of Kingdom Hearts.

It's like any "summon" you've seen in Final Fantasy. They're not coming of their own free will, nor can they go and do as they please.


But that heart does physically exist, too, and it sits safely behind the keyhole. I think that's how the worlds came to exist; they were built around pieces of light, and then the hearts of everything in those worlds made that piece of heart grow over time into a real proper heart.

That's really what I'm saying, too, it's just that, stripping a world of its inhabitants and its life, that heart disappears. It is separate from the individual hearts, but inextricably linked.


If all the worlds had merged back with the core, then when all the worlds were restored at the end of KH, why didn't the true light come too?

Well, first, it's pretty vague as to why the worlds get restored at all. Just beat Ansem and everything goes back to the way it was. So that in itself is hard to explain.
But nonetheless, they did say that everything would go back to the way it was prior to Ansem's meddling.
And that does not include freeing Kingdom Hearts from the Dark Realm. It was there far before Ansem was even a thought.
 
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