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News ► KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi] - The 6th Apprentice and Rising Conflicts



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qbaysan

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Been lurking around for quite a while in these threads, but man, I really wanna say something now. I actually agree with Luxu here.

He's somewhat right with Skuld and Sora link with their fashion-sense anyway. Skuld's clothes is similar to Sora's KH1 clothes. Having drawn both of them from time to time, I can attest to it. It's not exactly full-blown similar, but the main idea of their clothing is. The zipper shirt and having a jacket over it, a large belt, a chain hanging around their sides and a bling feature to them, like Sora has a necklace while Skuld has her earrings.

And I also agree with her fighting stance being somewhat similar to Riku. While at first glance it doesn't look like it, the main idea is there too. Riku's stance can be described as raising his keyblade with just one hand, and his free hand down. Same can be said for Skuld, except her free hand is a lot down. Pretty sure, only Riku clones have a stance like that.

There's also the move she used, Sonic Assault. And taking a look from the cards in X that uses that move, they're mostly reverse cards with Xemnas and Ansem as the common face. The only non-reverse card for Sonic Assault is Hercules.

For Ephemera, he bares resemblence to Riku with his facial appearance. A silver hair kid with aqua green eyes. I do think he also bares resemblence to Riku in KH1, at least their curiosity part anyway. That can also be compared to Xehanort I guess.

And as Luxu said, Ephemera has his resemblence to Sora with his fighting moves of choice. The moves he used when he fought the Invisible on both occassions are Ars Arcanum and Ragnarok respectively. Pretty sure these are Sora clones signature moves, well except for Ragnarok a bit since it can be used by all of the BBS trio. But when taking a look at the cards that has these moves, they're mostly from Sora clones.

While true that all these moves can be used by the player, I think one has to remember why these moves are chosen for other characters to use.

Unless I'm overthinking it just like Luxu.
 

faemarch

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For Ephemera, he bares resemblence to Riku with his facial appearance. A silver hair kid with aqua green eyes. I do think he also bares resemblence to Riku in KH1, at least their curiosity part anyway. That can also be compared to Xehanort I guess.
Ephemera uses the male avatar's default face (blue-ish eyes, same as the Player's) option and wears a palette-swapped version of one of the default male avatar costume sets.

No connection has been established between Skuld/Eph/Player and any of the present characters, and there isn't any need to establish any.
 

JR199913

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Been lurking around for quite a while in these threads, but man, I really wanna say something now. I actually agree with Luxu here.

He's somewhat right with Skuld and Sora link with their fashion-sense anyway. Skuld's clothes is similar to Sora's KH1 clothes. Having drawn both of them from time to time, I can attest to it. It's not exactly full-blown similar, but the main idea of their clothing is. The zipper shirt and having a jacket over it, a large belt, a chain hanging around their sides and a bling feature to them, like Sora has a necklace while Skuld has her earrings.

And I also agree with her fighting stance being somewhat similar to Riku. While at first glance it doesn't look like it, the main idea is there too. Riku's stance can be described as raising his keyblade with just one hand, and his free hand down. Same can be said for Skuld, except her free hand is a lot down. Pretty sure, only Riku clones have a stance like that.

There's also the move she used, Sonic Assault. And taking a look from the cards in X that uses that move, they're mostly reverse cards with Xemnas and Ansem as the common face. The only non-reverse card for Sonic Assault is Hercules.

For Ephemera, he bares resemblence to Riku with his facial appearance. A silver hair kid with aqua green eyes. I do think he also bares resemblence to Riku in KH1, at least their curiosity part anyway. That can also be compared to Xehanort I guess.

And as Luxu said, Ephemera has his resemblence to Sora with his fighting moves of choice. The moves he used when he fought the Invisible on both occassions are Ars Arcanum and Ragnarok respectively. Pretty sure these are Sora clones signature moves, well except for Ragnarok a bit since it can be used by all of the BBS trio. But when taking a look at the cards that has these moves, they're mostly from Sora clones.

While true that all these moves can be used by the player, I think one has to remember why these moves are chosen for other characters to use.

Unless I'm overthinking it just like Luxu.
The main idea of their clothing is similiar... Isn't the whole zipper, jack, belt, chain thing a "signature" of Nomura. How he makes his characters? Alot of characters have zippers, or a jacket over their clothes, or some bling stuff. Alot of them have belts too (well, not all of them are big though...). But seriously, basing a connection between to characters because of clothing, I'm not buying that.
Are we really comparing earrings and necklaces now?

I describe his stance as raising his keyblade above/beside and pointing his other hand at the enemy. At eye level.
Skuld keeps her Keyblade under her head, at her chin, keeps her other hand all the way down, as if she needs it to balance herself.
Stances are alot more then just hands though. Hell, personally I believe that the stance of the feet are more important. Skuld stands cross legged. Riku his stance his more balanced, he stands with 2 feet far apart.
And to me, it looks like Skuld is turned around on that picture or something... it looks really weird...
And then there is also the way their keyblade points, Riku points his keyblade most of the time downward or horizontal (I assume he does this because he is taller then the rest).
Skuld on the other hand, points her keyblade upward. Wich is weird, because if I remember correctly, when she used that stance, she was about to figh those corrupted Keyblade Wielders, they were alot smaller, so she should have pointed her keyblade downward.
So there are alot of differences in their style.

And dude, alot more characters use that stance, not only Riku. Vanitas uses it, Young Xehanort uses it. Actually, alot of the "Younger" dark type characters use it. Guess if their stance is the same, your beloved Skuld is a bit more darker then you expected...

Your point being? Just because there is a character on a card doesn't necessarily mean that move is directly tied to them.

I'm pretty sure their eyes are blue, sure you can see a hint of green in their eyes. But I wouldn't say green eyes.
Zexion has Silver hair, Aqua eyes AND is curious. Damn, so much Riku. Sepiroth has Silver hair and blue eyes too, but I'm pretty sure he isn't connected to Riku either.

Almost every character is curious one way or another, that would tie all of them to Riku. It doesn't work that way either.

Ragnarok can indeed be used by TAV. But Ars Arcanum can also be used by Ventus (guess why Sora can use it too). Terra has even a equivalent of it, Ars Solum.
So let's do a head count, excluding the 2 Sora copies, we have as playable characters, Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, Ventus and Player.
So 6 characters, and of those 6, 5 can use Ragnarok, and 4 can use Ars Arcanum (or a equivalent). Yeah, those are real exclusive signature moves.

Fair point, but yes, I'm still going with the overthinking part.

I'm not saying they aren't connected, I'm just saying that I don't see that connection now.
How can two characters who live centuries in the past have any connection to characters who weren't even born yet when they were around?
Well, the Rebirth theory made it seem pretty plausible.
 

Luxu

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The main idea of their clothing is similiar... Isn't the whole zipper, jack, belt, chain thing a "signature" of Nomura. How he makes his characters? Alot of characters have zippers, or a jacket over their clothes, or some bling stuff. Alot of them have belts too (well, not all of them are big though...). But seriously, basing a connection between to characters because of clothing, I'm not buying that.
Are we really comparing earrings and necklaces now?

I describe his stance as raising his keyblade above/beside and pointing his other hand at the enemy. At eye level.
Skuld keeps her Keyblade under her head, at her chin, keeps her other hand all the way down, as if she needs it to balance herself.
Stances are alot more then just hands though. Hell, personally I believe that the stance of the feet are more important. Skuld stands cross legged. Riku his stance his more balanced, he stands with 2 feet far apart.
And to me, it looks like Skuld is turned around on that picture or something... it looks really weird...
And then there is also the way their keyblade points, Riku points his keyblade most of the time downward or horizontal (I assume he does this because he is taller then the rest).
Skuld on the other hand, points her keyblade upward. Wich is weird, because if I remember correctly, when she used that stance, she was about to figh those corrupted Keyblade Wielders, they were alot smaller, so she should have pointed her keyblade downward.
So there are alot of differences in their style.

And dude, alot more characters use that stance, not only Riku. Vanitas uses it, Young Xehanort uses it. Actually, alot of the "Younger" dark type characters use it. Guess if their stance is the same, your beloved Skuld is a bit more darker then you expected...

Your point being? Just because there is a character on a card doesn't necessarily mean that move is directly tied to them.

I'm pretty sure their eyes are blue, sure you can see a hint of green in their eyes. But I wouldn't say green eyes.
Zexion has Silver hair, Aqua eyes AND is curious. Damn, so much Riku. Sepiroth has Silver hair and blue eyes too, but I'm pretty sure he isn't connected to Riku either.

Almost every character is curious one way or another, that would tie all of them to Riku. It doesn't work that way either.

Ragnarok can indeed be used by TAV. But Ars Arcanum can also be used by Ventus (guess why Sora can use it too). Terra has even a equivalent of it, Ars Solum.
So let's do a head count, excluding the 2 Sora copies, we have as playable characters, Sora, Riku, Terra, Aqua, Ventus and Player.
So 6 characters, and of those 6, 5 can use Ragnarok, and 4 can use Ars Arcanum (or a equivalent). Yeah, those are real exclusive signature moves.

Fair point, but yes, I'm still going with the overthinking part.

I'm not saying they aren't connected, I'm just saying that I don't see that connection now.

Well, the Rebirth theory made it seem pretty plausible.

I'm also going to pinpoint a something about, the combat styles of Empherea and the Player seem they are exactly the same (Though we have only seen the player do strikes, and have yet to see Empherea do a basic strike) The fighting stance of Skuld would be a huge flop in battle, she wouldn't be able to move backwards or to the side. All stances we've seen usually allow the person to move, and fighting Heartless is not like fighting a person but I still think motion would be important. And the reason she would point up the keyblade would be for slashing (Similar to the Player and Foretellers). But Skuld seems more offensive like Riku based on stance, Empherea might function similar towards Sora because stance, but these can easily be broken down if they ever fight in combat. I'd like to point out the Player though, they seem far more balanced and speedy than Skuld. That is why I compared our style with Roxas' style. (Both seem fast and powerful). Feel free to add to it or demolish somethings, or all of it.

Now let's all bash on the seemingly innocent Skuld for our theory.
 
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Alpha Baymax

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With the addition of Ventus in the third anniversary artwork of Kingdom Hearts X, does anyone think that he'll be involved in the rising conflicts in any capacity?

ventus_first_awakening_by_thylings.png
 

Luxu

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With the addition of Ventus in the third anniversary artwork of Kingdom Hearts X, does anyone think that he'll be involved in the rising conflicts in any capacity?

ventus_first_awakening_by_thylings.png

Nope Ven won't be, in KH3 he will be a vital character though. And about that theory of Ventus being the player. That is impossible. The Player not only would try to kill Xehanort but would have died in the Graveyard or with Ephemera and Skuld. So I think that the art is for people who are going to be important in KH3
 

Karrawong

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Nope Ven won't be, in KH3 he will be a vital character though. And about that theory of Ventus being the player. That is impossible. The Player not only would try to kill Xehanort but would have died in the Graveyard or with Ephemera and Skuld. So I think that the art is for people who are going to be important in KH3

I agree, there isn't any direct evidence for a connection between Ven and the player. So far the evidence for Ven being the player could also be evidence for Ven being any of the characters in Daybreak Town who fought in the keyblade war, tried to escape it, or (even if its a bit far fetched) got stuck in the Realm of Darkness during the keyblade war.
 

hemmoheikkinen

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I kinda like the idea of Sora, Riku and Kairi having similar colors in their outfits. It gives and impression of unity, like they are the trio that they are supposed to be.

EDIT:

Shiiiitttt, posted this to the wrong thread. Sorry. o_o
 

Alpha Baymax

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Nope Ven won't be, in KH3 he will be a vital character though. And about that theory of Ventus being the player. That is impossible. The Player not only would try to kill Xehanort but would have died in the Graveyard or with Ephemera and Skuld. So I think that the art is for people who are going to be important in KH3

I never assumed that Ventus is the canon player. I just think that he's a Dandelion that escapes the Unchained Realm and eventually gets trained by Xehanort. Sure, that conclusion comes out of a single picture, but I think the coincidences of Ventus, the X-Blade and his connection to the Keyblade Graveyard are too intentional to be coincidences.
 

Luxu

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I never assumed that Ventus is the canon player. I just think that he's a Dandelion that escapes the Unchained Realm and eventually gets trained by Xehanort. Sure, that conclusion comes out of a single picture, but I think the coincidences of Ventus, the X-Blade and his connection to the Keyblade Graveyard are too intentional to be coincidences.

Most likely a Dandelion, that had no knowledge of Ephemera, Skuld or the Player. Or one of the last few remaining after the war (Like we were). I think he was a Dandelion, and he may be weak with a keyblade (Compared to the Daybreak Trio or others) but the strength of the heart is what matters. So the Keyblade Graveyard is Daybreak Town meaning it would change to that.
 

kirabook

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So, I posted about this theory on Tumblr and got a butt load of responses/reblogs/likes/etc. But, should this be taken to a new thread as not to clog up this one? And it wouldn't feel right for me to make it since I didn't come up with itttt
 

Karrawong

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I never assumed that Ventus is the canon player. I just think that he's a Dandelion that escapes the Unchained Realm and eventually gets trained by Xehanort. Sure, that conclusion comes out of a single picture, but I think the coincidences of Ventus, the X-Blade and his connection to the Keyblade Graveyard are too intentional to be coincidences.

As much as I like your theory I think it's good to point out that Ven being a dandelion isn't the only possibility. There is also a association between Ven and Gula in terms of art design.

Ventus does have some art design similarities with Gula. Gula's main colours in his design (besides yellow) are grey, blue and black, which happens to be some of the main colours (minus green) in Ven's design. Ventus's keyblade armour helmet also has similarities with Gula's mask (when also comparing Aqua's and Terra's helmets to Invi and Aceds masks). The ears on Gula's mask angle to the side, not pointing forward like the ears on Aced's or Ava's mask. Ventus's helmet has spikes that seem to also be bent at an angle, unlike Terra's helmet that has the spikes pointing straight up an Aqua's helmet spikes being pointed completely backward.

The problem with the comparison with the keyblade helmets vs foreteller masks is that the only one that seems to have the same colour scheme is Aqua and Invi.

Another comparison with Gula and Ventus is naming. I'm including Vanitas in this comparison because I think it's necessary to put him in this comparison due to originating from Ven's darkness. Ventus, Gula, and Vanitas's names are all Latin in origin. Ventus means Wind, Vanitas means Emptiness, and Gula means Gluttony.
What is interesting is that Gula's and Vanitas's meanings are opposites.

Gluttony is the overconsumption or overindulgence of something to the point of waste.

Emptiness is the lack of something.

Vanitas and Ventus in BBS are seen as opposites. Gula's and Vanitas's name meanings are opposites.


I'm not trying to prove the Rebirth Theory. I just want to point out that there seems to be a big enough connection between Ven and Gula to have the same probability as Ven being a Dandelion or being associated with Gula in some way.
 

Alpha Baymax

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As much as I like your theory I think it's good to point out that Ven being a dandelion isn't the only possibility. There is also a association between Ven and Gula in terms of art design.

Ventus does have some art design similarities with Gula. Gula's main colours in his design (besides yellow) are grey, blue and black, which happens to be some of the main colours (minus green) in Ven's design. Ventus's keyblade armour helmet also has similarities with Gula's mask (when also comparing Aqua's and Terra's helmets to Invi and Aceds masks). The ears on Gula's mask angle to the side, not pointing forward like the ears on Aced's or Ava's mask. Ventus's helmet has spikes that seem to also be bent at an angle, unlike Terra's helmet that has the spikes pointing straight up an Aqua's helmet spikes being pointed completely backward.

The problem with the comparison with the keyblade helmets vs foreteller masks is that the only one that seems to have the same colour scheme is Aqua and Invi.

Another comparison with Gula and Ventus is naming. I'm including Vanitas in this comparison because I think it's necessary to put him in this comparison due to originating from Ven's darkness. Ventus, Gula, and Vanitas's names are all Latin in origin. Ventus means Wind, Vanitas means Emptiness, and Gula means Gluttony.
What is interesting is that Gula's and Vanitas's meanings are opposites.

Gluttony is the overconsumption or overindulgence of something to the point of waste.

Emptiness is the lack of something.

Vanitas and Ventus in BBS are seen as opposites. Gula's and Vanitas's name meanings are opposites.


I'm not trying to prove the Rebirth Theory. I just want to point out that there seems to be a big enough connection between Ven and Gula to have the same probability as Ven being a Dandelion or being associated with Gula in some way.

I'm not denying the connection there, I just feel as though Gula and Ventus can still be connected. As in Ventus is the spiritual successor to Master Gula. If Ventus was to hypothetically originate from Daybreak Town: that doesn't mean that the connection between the both of them is no longer valid. We could have another Birth by Sleep situation (in which Ventus never met Sora yet was connected to him and was around at the same time as Sora). Ventus may have been in contact with all the Foretellers in some capacity except for Master Gula. That doesn't dismiss the connection between Gula and Ventus, it just dismisses the "literal" reincarnation of the reincarnation theory.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I'm not denying the connection there

Don't let the possibility of your theory be diminished just because of there being another theory that goes against it.

There IS a probability that there is no connection at all between Gula and Ventus as the whole Rebirth(or connection)-mumbo-jumbo has no more merit than your theory does, it is also just a possibility and nothing more.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Don't let the possibility of your theory be diminished just because of there being another theory that goes against it.

There IS a probability that there is no connection at all between Gula and Ventus as the whole Rebirth(or connection)-mumbo-jumbo has no more merit than your theory does, it is also just a possibility and nothing more.

It's just that the definition of reincarnation is the rebirth of a soul in a new body. That definition is debunked in the literal sense if Ventus and Master Gula existed in the same era as Ventus is supposed to be the reincarnation of Master Gula.

Of course, I'm not holding either theory of Reincarnation or Ventus being Dandelion as fact, rather, as theories to provide explanation to the unknown. I always take canon events and lore elements in precedence over any theories.
 

KrytenKoro

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Trollanort doesn't know that Sora will definitely a new vessel for him and be on "his side" in the future as he himself clearly states above that he does not know anything further than the current point.
So being awfully certain or not, he is just assuming, not knowing.
It's -possible- he hasn't checked, but it would beggar belief and make him look incompetent. He possesses the ability to check, and we know he can time travel to a point when someone who has been "seeded" does not yet contain a piece of him:

Yen Sid: Well, if we are running on the assumption Xehanort knew what we
were planning, then he still would need to have been there--back in the
very place and time when the Destiny Islands were lost to darkness.
Otherwise, Sora and Riku would have been beyond his reach.

(Goofy taps his head slowly thinking)

Mickey: Gee, do you really think it's possible Xehanort could have planned
things that far in advance?

Yen Sid: No, as a matter of fact, I do not.

Goofy: But what if he did the same thing as Sora and Riku did, and he
jumped through time?

Yen Sid: For that to work, a version of himself would have had to exist at
both source and destination. Not even Xehanort can transport his whole body
across vast reaches of time.

Mickey: Oh... Oh no. I remember--Xehanort did give up his body. It was a
version of him that was possessing Riku.

In short -- Ansem possessing Riku allowed Robed Figure to time travel to the islands by accessing Riku's web, as Riku now counted as a "version of him". The reports even emphasize that this is possible not just because Ansem had no body, but specifically because he used this time to possess Riku.

So, if Sora is -ever- to become a vessel, Xehanort will have -always- had access to Sora's timestream. Therefore, he can very easily check which "archetypes" are to become his vessels, and therefore he has either confirmed that a version of Sora will become a version of himself, or he is just really gotdamn stupid and arrogant beyond belief -- or the plot has a massive plot hole and Nomura has lost track of his story.
 

Antifa Lockhart

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Mickey wasn't saying Xehanort was using Riku as a portal, he was confirming to Yen Sid that his Heartless version was watching Riku and that it was possible he was on the islands the night of the storm. Xehanort didn't use Riku to get into the Sleeping Realm, he used the brown-robed Ansem who was there that night.

Keep in mind, we're not sure if Xehanort can actually access his seeds timelines before the point of inception, there's no real proof of it to my knowledge - and there's another glaring fact here: once your time traveling is over, you return to the point you left with no memories of the experience. It doesn't matter if Xehanort can check or not, he'd forget as soon as he returned.

(Well, unless you meant going Xehanort going backward, but there are a lot of holes in time travel to work around regardless)
 
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Ven_Roxas

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So there must be a version of himself at the destination (Young Xehanort on DI). He went further into the past than the night DI fell.
Next, you can only move forward as per the laws of time. He move forward in time to when he (Ansem SoD) made DI fall to darkness knowing that that was the night he noticed the darkness in Riku and presumably had noticed a second Sora and Riku on the islands (the ones sent back in time by Yen Sid). He probably knew what they were doing and thus planted his time-traveling self there, meaning there were actually two Ansem SoDs there that night. The one that possessed Riku (the one we saw in KH1) and the one who had traveled through time and recruited YX and eventually followed Riku and Sora into the Realm of Sleep.

Therefore, no he didn't go to Riku's past, he merely moved forward from his past to an opportune moment in time which is allowed based on how time travel is explained in the game.
 
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