Spoilers ► LEAKS discussion - ENTER AT OWN RISK

[Katsagu]

By the way, all the footage I saw are using musics from the original games, not from the reorchestrated tracks from the remix. Do we have any info as to why it's like that?

I read on an interview they wanted to keep the original ones for nostalgia reasons. Wanting to transport people to their original playthrough with the game or something.

 

[AegisXIII]

I read on an interview they wanted to keep the original ones for nostalgia reasons. Wanting to transport people to their original playthrough with the game or something.

I thought it was because it is easier to find where the beat is in a non orchestrated ost.
Could be nice to swap between the two modes though.

 

[the red monster]

We don't know yet if she is unlockable after the ending. Not getting my hopes up but we are judging without the whole picture.

Oh oops i misread it.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

"You gotta be patient" "Wait a little longer" "Why did you expect this and that"

People, I wasn't expecting ANYTHING from this game. I was expecting secret movie style cutscenes. Like, one or two and maybe a boss fight with whoever the hooded guy was. I wasn't expecting Kairi to get a full arc. I wasn't expecting the story to make leaps and bounds because Nomura already said it wouldn't.

I was not expecting much of anything out of this rhythm game.

But you know what?

Spoiler Show

They presented this boss battle between Kairi and the hooded figure or Xehanort or whatever. She ranted about how they're ruining everything and how she's ready to fight.

.... And then you let her be basically killed again and then instead of Kairi overcoming the first big obstacle in her standalone journey.... you transform her into Sora to do the fight instead?

Huh?? This game has 1 relevant fight for this mini-Kairi story and she's not allowed to duke it out herself... even if she wans't going to go with Riku cause she felt too weak or was trying to find her own path... you still didn't let her have her own mini fight?

It is bonkers. I don't see how it's toxic to be scratching your head asking questions on how the heck they thought this was a good idea? I'm not asking for KH1/KH2 level plot and character progression. At the very LEAST they can give Kairi a boss fight since they created one just for this game?

Imagine when Aqua was fighting Venitas and she summoned the power of friendship, and then suddenly she transforms into Sora to finish off Venitas instead. Imagine during her fight with Terranort, she says, "I am Master Aqua, now return my friends heart or pay the price!" and then her body transforms into Ven to fight him off.

This is exactly how I feel about this game.

 

[2 quid is good]

KH fans suffer from toxic positivity

 

[Ballad of Caius]

This could be a stretch, but it makes sense for them to have thrown the Dark Road update before Melody of Memory if the upperclassmen end up being Yozora and the gang. We could even theorize that their weapons are actually their Keyblades, but Transformed.

Or they renounced the Keyblade because of what the Mark of Mastery possibly did to them. Also, sending the upperclassmen into a world beyond Light and Darkness sounds like an interesting choice to use.

 

[kirabook]

I get it. Sometimes there are people who crap on the game for dumb reasons. The response to that is not to pretend like everything is peachy and we should be happy about everything all the time. Who are you Walt Disney?

Kingdom Hearts is still my favorite series. I bought the game cause I've never played a rhythm game and this seems like a good starting place since I know all the songs.

Wasn't expecting a blow out story. Joked with my friends all the important stuff would be in 1 cutscenes at the end.

But even I never imagined it'd play out like... THAT

 

[Platinum End]

Nomura has the ability to make good KH girl characters ! The thing is that HE chooses which one will get much love that will fit HIS ideal story creation (His Vision) in this case Aqua, Xion, and Subject X. Kairi will MOST LIKELY have her time shine though but not before other plots are fleshed out. This was kind of expected and i don't know why KH fans gets their hopes up knowing that she's the "princess peach" of the series as someone had said eariler.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

There is a ton of female developers on staff that work on KH.

The problem here isn’t so much female influence but I think a bit of a cultural one. Nomura’s using a lot of shounen tropes and just general tropes from classic JRPGs which often feature a deemphasis on the female character closely associated with the main hero if they are a love interest.

And what I imagine is happening is a clash between cultural expectations. Many modern Disney stories are the opposite of this. There is a lot of deemphasis on the male lead because he is just the love interest for the female lead, and we see the story through her eyes. At the end there might be some mutual saving and then it’s a happy ending.

Older Disney films made the female leads the character that needed saving, but in the last 30 years that has changed with the female lead being the one to take control of their own fate.

And I think that is also coming into play here a bit, too. Nomura might also just be pulling from old Disney tropes on top of using typical shounen tropes.

Kairi and Namine for example are your classic JRPG and Disney heroines. Soft spoken, sweet, wait on the sidelines until they are saved. They are being acted upon rather than acting.

Aqua and Xion are more like modern female characters who are active parts of their stories and are often acting rather than being acted upon.

I imagine we could probably apply some media analysis terms to all of this but frankly I just woke up and don’t have the brain for it haha

My point stands, though. Kairi is a projection of the character archetype she is based upon.

Haaah…I figured as much, I was just hoping that approaching 20 years, he’d have, you know, added to his style than stagnate. I also came to the conclusion that it’s a cultural thing, but I was refraining from saying it because I didn’t want to make anybody touchy. Still…it is what it is and we’ll have to accept that. The series is just too entrenched in our lives to just quit cold turkey.

At least if there’s ever a Moana world, we know the princess in it can kick ass.

 

[Katsagu]

My point stands, though. Kairi is a projection of the character archetype she is based upon.

She really is, and all we can hope for is she somehow gets out of that place. Re:Mind was a good beginning but this seemed like a one step forward, two steps back type of deal.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

Let’s…skip on the gameplay and lack of Kairi spotlight for now and focus on the leaked plot, if it is true. If we continue rehashing it then we’re going to be very, very bitter (or sour, or salty) by the time we buy the game and not enjoy it at all.

So, any ideas on what those words meant?

Please remember to use spoiler tags.

 

[AegisXIII]

There is a ton of female developers on staff that work on KH.

The problem here isn’t so much female influence but I think a bit of a cultural one. Nomura’s using a lot of shounen tropes and just general tropes from classic JRPGs which often feature a deemphasis on the female character closely associated with the main hero if they are a love interest.

And what I imagine is happening is a clash between cultural expectations. Many modern Disney stories are the opposite of this. There is a lot of deemphasis on the male lead because he is just the love interest for the female lead, and we see the story through her eyes. At the end there might be some mutual saving and then it’s a happy ending.

Older Disney films made the female leads the character that needed saving, but in the last 30 years that has changed with the female lead being the one to take control of their own fate.

And I think that is also coming into play here a bit, too. Nomura might also just be pulling from old Disney tropes on top of using typical shounen tropes.

Kairi and Namine for example are your classic JRPG and Disney heroines. Soft spoken, sweet, wait on the sidelines until they are saved. They are being acted upon rather than acting.

Aqua and Xion are more like modern female characters who are active parts of their stories and are often acting rather than being acted upon.

I imagine we could probably apply some media analysis terms to all of this but frankly I just woke up and don’t have the brain for it haha

My point stands, though. Kairi is a projection of the character archetype she is based upon.

Yes! Exactly. It's a cultural thing. And I wouldn't want it to change at all. Let Japan do its own storytelling. They do not have the same view on things than us and that's great to expand our horizon.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed the storytelling of ff7 and I realised that's becaues everyone is a stereotype, which then allows to switch from comedy to drama very quickly. It's more cartoonish while still being mature.
Now I do not know what is going on with poor Kairi, but from what I understand, people are frustrated because she is still defined by Sora and sucks at fighting.
Well, now you have it. That's her arc: how is she gonna become herself.
In the xehanort saga, princesses of hearts were mostly damzell in distress, which is the trope Kairi used as well. Now Disney changed that view and Kairi could be a way to represent this change. But it cannot happen just by wishing to be stronger. It needs to be a slow transformation, the same way Disney did.
This arc will probably be expanded in the future but that's a good thing. If you want a good payoff, you need to be frustrated first. XD

 

[the red monster]

Nomura when he saw kairi fans happy after ReMind

 

[May-Jor]

I wish people would stop saying bad female writing is a Japanese culture thing. I've read and watched so many stories from Japan with excellent and interesting female characters and I'd hate for all that to be discounted because of a crappy genre filled with out-of-touch, old male writers. And same with the west. There are a ton of movies, cartoons, books, etc. written by, you guessed it, geezers, who write their female characters like crap. Even the older writers trying to be woke still end up making awful, unintentionally backwards women and minority characters. But that doesn't mean it's a problem with a culture, it's a problem with the writer's demographics and skill.

 

[2 quid is good]

We don't even have to look very far, the girls in FF7R were written pretty well, or at least way more competently than in KH

 

[The Kid]

Outside of the Kairi stuff which is awful but not surprising to me, the story feels even more convoluted and dumb going forward. I really don't care that much about Sora and Riku in G rated Versus XIII. Unironically looking forward to the Mickey stuff a lot more. Hopefully it has its own game so Shibuya stuff isn't the only thing to look forward to

 

[Megavoltage]

she's the "princess peach" of the series as someone had said eariler.

I don't know about this. Peach joins in on the adventures in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, the Super Mario 3D World games, and is even one of the four chosen heroes in Super Paper Mario. Making Kairi the 'Peach of Kingdom Hearts' might be an improvement for our forlorn redhead, lol.

 

[Cumguardian69]

Just watched Cyberman stream the world tour and some ITA leaks on youtube. Looks like you literally cannot change style in WT, and the Kairi narrations are given almost enntirely without context. Oh no no no pffff AHAHAHA

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I don't know about this. Peach joins in on the adventures in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, the Super Mario 3D World games, and is even one of the four chosen heroes in Super Paper Mario. Making Kairi the 'Peach of Kingdom Hearts' might be an improvement for our forlorn redhead, lol.

Don't forget Super Princess Peach! And all of her protagonist roles in those games were carefully thought out and not developed as an after thought *coughCHIRITYHADKAIRISROLEINMOMcough*

 

[Any]

I had a gut feeling something bad was gonna happen and make people upset. I’m glad I didn’t buy this game. I only wanted to see what was up with Kairi and see her fight....but that’s the last thing I got. Does Nomura hate Kairi lol