Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, etc.

[Nayru's Love]

Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, etc.

I'll be damned if I didn't outdo myself on this collection of theories. If anything, all of them essentially root to concepts that are deeply correlated with each other, so I hope you guys can find some merit in the way everything's structured, for lack of better wording. I know I'll be reusing a lot of the general concepts in the future.

Also, you might find the longevity of this post to be rather...intimidating. DEAL WITH IT, I seriously spent over 5 hours writing this shit out. >_>"

Anyways, let's start with the most integral plot device of the series: KH.

(I'll slap the shit out of you if you think I'm talking about KH as a game)
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Spoiler Show

From what we know about KH, it is the Heart of All Worlds, it coexists with the X-Blade, and Resides in the Realm of Darkness (RoD). Before the Keyblade War, it resided in the Realm of Light (RoL). However, as darkness grew in the hearts of people, the Keyblade War came to happen. Several important things happened as a result:

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• 
  [*=left]The RoL was reorganized; no longer one, unified world, the RoL became a cluster of separated worlds.
  [*=left]KH departed to the RoD, away from the reach of the inhabitants of the RoL.
  [*=left]The X-Blade scattered into 20 pieces. 7 pieces of light, and 13 pieces of darkness.

Although KH has left the RoL in pieces, there was still hope to be found.

​

• 
  [*=left]The hearts of the children who survived the world began to rebuild the world/s around them, in the hopes that the RoL can become the unified world it was before the War.
  [*=left]If one wishes to bring back KH to the RoL, they must reforge the X-Blade.
  [*=left]If one wishes to just reach KH, they must forge the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart (KoPL).

After some intensive analysis involving an unhealthy amount of coffee and procrastination, I think I've thought of a few theories that relate to the various, smaller details surrounding these details.

For starters: The RoD/Darkness is the destination for people/worlds/entities that lack a physical existence.

Something that's been reiterated time and time again in the series, but in ways we wouldn't notice.
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Subject #1: Heartless

​

As everyone knows, Heartless lack a physical/humanoid body; the heart chose to discard its physical manifestation in favor of darkness. Or, the darkness just kinda took over, like a typical bitch with control freak issues.
​

Subject #2: Riku in the RoD

When Xehanort's Heartless (XH) ejected Riku's heart from his own body, there was no physical shell for Riku's heart to go to. As a result, his heart became merely an entity with no physical definition. Supposedly, the RoD is the destination hearts with nowhere else to go.

Heartless and bodiless Riku, hearts with no natural/physical structure (for lack of better wording; think "human bodies" or "the shape of worlds"). Both share a similar fate, although in differing forms: Darkness.

Theory 1:
"Light" of a heart is represented through physical manifestation. As in, something that can be considered to have a "natural structure."

Theory 2:
As an entity that resides in the Realm of Darkness, Kingdom Hearts currently lacks a physical form. However, it may have had one during its time in the Realm of Light.

Think about it. Forging the X-Blade summons KH to (assumedly) the RoL, the location of the worlds that used to be just one world (since MX implied that the RoD was essentially uncolonized). I don't think it's a coincidence that KH's summoning/materialization in the RoL happens AT THE SAME TIME as the reunion of all worlds.


Moral of the story: KH's light is the key to connecting all worlds into one entity. If KH's light doesn't exist on a physical level, neither does the physical connection between worlds.​

Next: The relation between Kingdom Hearts and the X-Blade: How can they manifest physically?

Well, let's move onto our next subject. ​

The X-Blade. Most integral plot device of BBS.

​

Spoiler Show

• 
  [*=left]"X" has been used to represent the intersection of light and darkness.
  [*=left]In BBS, Master Xehanort (MX) attempted to forge it by fusing together a heart of pure light and a heart of pure darkness.
  [*=left]MX fcked up.
  [*=left]Of the two hearts that the X-Blade came from, the heart of Vanitas was unnatural; he was born from MX splitting Ven's heart into 2 pieces: Light and Dark.
  [*=left]DDD introduced the new "7/13" method as the actual way the X-Blade was meant to be forged. 7 warriors of light must clash with 13 warriors of darkness.
  [*=left]Coexists with KH.
  [*=left]Forging the X-Blade is the key to summoning KH.

So, another two theories in relation to KH and the RoD.

Theory #3:
Kingdom Hearts and the X-Blade coexist PHYSICALLY.
Forge the X-Blade. It becomes physical. Summon KH. It becomes physical. Not hard at all to understand.

Granted, taking Theory #1 into consideration, that would mean that the X-Blade (and, by extension, all keyblades) are slightly biased towards Light. However, that's to be expected from a weapon known as the man-made counterpart to Kingdom Hearts.
...
And KH is light.
...
So keyblades are man-made counterparts to light.

Theory #4:
Just as KH resides in the RoD, so does the X-Blade.
If KH and the X-Blade coexist, then that means that the X-Blade has some level of existence at all times, probably the same as KH's. Assuming KH is merely an intangible entity inside of the RoD, we could say the same for the X-Blade.

Furthermore, the X-Blade itself is a representation of the unity (or lack thereof) of the worlds. Think of "light and dark intersecting" as "two different worlds intersecting" instead; by physically manifesting the X-Blade, you also physically manifest the intersection of different worlds by reuniting them together.​

​

Next point: The relation between Kingdom Hearts and (the various forms of) darkness (and other shit).

​

Spoiler Show

(Made a quick edit, since the last image wasn't that relevant)

Spoiler Show

Spoiler Show

The key topic here is the reorganization of the Realm of Light. From what we know, KH left for the RoD, the worlds were separated, the X-Blade shattered, and the Keyblade of Peoples' Heart came into existence (kind of; perhaps it too exists within the RoD?). The "7/13" concept is also important here.

Take a second to think about how KH went to the RoD and how a person becomes a Heartless; both scenarios are remarkably synonymous in nature, specifically in how they reflect the theme of, "Within the deepest darkness, there is a light." If we compare KH to a Heartless...

Theory #5:
In order to prevent the growing threat of darkness, worlds needed to be separated from each other (so as to avoid any further chaos); the Realm of Light, as it was, was not ready to control the darkness that came from it. So, KH had to go away. Just as the light of the heart usually fails to manifest beyond the darkness of a Heartless, so does the light of KH fail to manifest beyond the darkness of the RoD...which pretty much reiterates why the worlds were separated, going by my earlier theories.

That's not to say, however, that KH is completely synonymous to a Heartless; just only in certain aspects. Otherwise, the Realm of Light would be a giant Heartless, lolol.

Theory #6:
KH has maintained the title, "Heart of all life." Given how KH is purely light (for a few good reasons), that means that, while normal hearts aren't purely light like KH, KH's primary element of light is present within all natural hearts. ALL (natural) hearts have light. ALL (natural) hearts are connected to KH.

If you're wondering what I mean by "natural," I was referring, of course, to Vanitas, the only known Heart of Pure Darkness. The idea of a heart that doesn't (directly) have the light of KH can seem very...paradoxical. Funny story, that actually explains the negativity of the Unversed.

If all living things that originate from KH result in the "balance of the universe," obviously creating something that didn't originate from KH is going to upset things. Oh hey, look: Theory #7.

Theory #7:
The reason why the X-Blade of BBS was doomed to fail was because of Vanitas.
The X-Blade has, at the very least, a natural existence (arguably supernatural). The idea of forging it through the fusion of a heart of pure light and a heart of pure darkness doesn't make sense because a heart of pure darkness should not be natural at all.

If anything, I fail to see how you can create a weapon that coexists with KH with someone that doesn't reflect KH's most important element.

So where does the "7/13" concept come into play?

It may not be obvious, but there's actually a level of intelligent design in the reorganization of the Realm of Light. Specifically one that favors light, I might add. What exactly gives us that impression?

The fact that the Keyblade War could have continued to no particular extent. At the very least, there does seem to have been a certain limit as to how much the Realm of Light could withstand the growing threat of darkness (as vague as that sounds).

Where exactly did this "Intelligent Design" originate from? I actually don't care; I'm more interested in how there actually is some level of relevance it has to the series. Through that assumption, I came up with a possible explanation as to why there are more darknesses than lights.

Theory #8:
Whoever/Whatever designed the "7/13" method may have wanted to give the 7 lights a challenge, so as to help them find the power to go against all odds.

Work hard, play hard. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Yolo. Call it whatever you want (actually, don't call it yolo), it's an easy-to-understand concept.​

^^^-- I hate coding glitches :v --^^^


Almost done, I promise; let's move on to the Realm of Sleep (RoS).

Spoiler Show

Earlier, I was going on about how the RoD was the home of entities lacking physical structure. To be fairly honest, we can say the exact same thing for everything in the RoS. So what exactly differentiates the RoD from the RoS?

Both the RoD and RoS are home to those with no physical form. What differentiates them, however, is that the entities with strong wills find their way into the RoD.

Theory #9:
The Realm of Light and Realm of Darkness can be categorized into one group, that being Realms that reflect the CONNECTION BETWEEN THE HEART AND THE MIND/BODY. Likewise, the Realm of In-Between (RoIB) and Realm of Sleep can also be categorized, this time that group being Realms that reflect theCONNECTION BETWEEN THE MIND AND THE HEART/BODY.​

• 
  [*=left]Why did Riku go to the RoD? Because his heart worked in conjunction with his mind to constitute his existence in the RoD.
  [*=left]Why do Nobodies exist? Because their minds worked in conjunction with their bodies to constitute their existence in the RoIB.

Heart. Mind. Body. Many scenarios, many combinations, many results. I'd like to conclude this collection of theories with one last theory about a possible result of relevance.​

Mindfck of the day: Possible history of AtW (Ansem the Wise) and DiZ (Darkness in Zero)

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Spoiler Show

1. 
   [*=left]AtW takes in Xehanort.
   [*=left]Xehanort has some fun adventures in Radiant Garden.
   [*=left]AtW gives Xehanort a time-out.
   [*=left]Oh hey look, a keyblade.
   [*=left]???
   [*=left]PROFIT

I feel as if there are important mysteries behind the exile of AtW, ones that may prove to be integral in the future of the series. For instance, what if DiZ was a Nobody? What if he was a potential vessel of MX? Let's explore.

The rebirth of AtW's apprentices as Nobodies begins with Xehanort's recovery of MX's keyblade. As seen with Braig, Xehanort has used his keyblade to release the hearts of the apprentices. After some critical thinking, there seems to be some disturbingly good evidence supporting how he did the same thing to AtW. Well, that, and Xehanort cloning his heart inside of AtW.

So, what exactly would happen? Well.

​

• 
  [*=left]Xehanort clones his heart inside of AtW.
  [*=left]Xehanort releases AtW's heart from his body. Given how the apprentices were still loyal to Xemnas, some kind of memory loss may have been involved. Shit, AtW showed signs of memory loss during Blank Points.
  [*=left]The body of AtW becomes DiZ, who now holds a clone of Xehanort's heart. Through that heart, DiZ not only starts to look like Xehanort/XH, but he also adopts Xehanort's anger, hatred, and douchebaggery.
  [*=left]Meanwhile, AtW's heart has nowhere to go. Thus, it ends up in the RoD as an intangible entity, or at least until DiZ blows himself up, thus resulting in the reunion of his heart and body.

Darkness in Zero. The Dark Heart of Xehanort in a Nobody.

Theory #10:
AtW has been in the RoD almost as long as Aqua has been in there. DiZ is one of the 13 Darknesses. AtW has gone through the "Rebirth Process."
Game, set, match.​

Undeniably the most fun I've ever had theorizing on this site. I hope you guys enjoy the read, given how many hours and how much battery life I've wasted. :x

(Edit: Please excuse the corny puns and glitchy coding)

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[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

Re: Massive KH Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13", what really really REALLY happened to AtW, etc.

Not bad, you put a lot of thought into it. I was always wondering, did Ansem the Wise get banished by Xehanort before the heartless invaded Radiant Garden and Kairi getting sent to Destiny Islands or after/during?

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive KH Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13", what really really REALLY happened to AtW, etc.

Woah, didn't see the DiZ thing coming! That makes sense.

Although it needs to be stated that AtW told Aqua it was his "second time on these shores". Perhaps, the first time was just his Heart, then the Kingdom Hearts Encoder blew up, and the Nobody was reunited with the Heart, and sent back to the Darkness. However, tthis would mean the reborn Ansem the Wise no longer has Xehanort's heart, the same way Riku no longer has Ansem SoD in him, from the same event.

DiZ can still be one of the 13 Darknesses, though. Through time travel. DiZ would be able to travel to the future because AtW does exist in the present: in the RoD, with Aqua.

All in all, an excellent set of theories. Can I base my next thread using some of this info?

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Massive KH Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13", what really really REALLY happened to AtW, etc.

Not bad, you put a lot of thought into it. I was always wondering, did Ansem the Wise get banished by Xehanort before the heartless invaded Radiant Garden and Kairi getting sent to Destiny Islands or after/during?

Pretty sure AtW got banished before those particular events.

Although it needs to be stated that AtW told Aqua it was his "second time on these shores". Perhaps, the first time was just his Heart, then the Kingdom Hearts Encoder blew up, and the Nobody was reunited with the Heart, and sent back to the Darkness.

Assuming AtW's heart would be in the RoD at the time, his body would cross over to the RoD and rejoin with his heart. That's exactly what happened with Riku when XH was defeated.

However, tthis would mean the reborn Ansem the Wise no longer has Xehanort's heart, the same way Riku no longer has Ansem SoD in him, from the same event.

Not necessarily; AtW's experience with the explosion could be synonymous with XH's experience with KH. Possibly, anyways. That being said, I can easily imagine MX taking advantage of AtW's guilt over his days as an ass.

DiZ can still be one of the 13 Darknesses, though. Through time travel. DiZ would be able to travel to the future because AtW does exist in the present: in the RoD, with Aqua.

DiZ, in particular, needs to have his cloned heart exist within the flow of time. Theoritically, DiZ =/= AtW.

All in all, an excellent set of theories. Can I base my next thread using some of this info?

Thanks, brah.
Feel free; just keep in mind that these are still theories.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

*claps*
Wow, really very well thought out and I can agree with the most of your points.

The notion of which that only the Realm of Light is the realm where an entity can truly physically exist (and is considered "existing" at all) ties in very well with the information we got that in Blank Points, those who called out to Sora already have "disappeared" from the world and the hint that even Aqua and Ansem the Wise would be "born from sleep" for their second chance.
It also ties in well with the notions we got in the journal of DDD where it is claimed that Xion, Naminé and Roxas "ceased to exist", as they really lost their physical existence, only difference is that they aren't in the RoD nor in the RoS, but inside Sora's and Kairi's hearts.

As for the true KH itself, both Master Xehanort and Yen Sid refer to it as an "unseen land" (MX) or an "unseen power" (Yen Sid) even in the age of fairytales when talking about the Keyblade War, which may lead to the conclusion that the true KH has in general no physical form. It may be able to take a visible form, yes, but probably not an actual physical "shell" someone can touch.
Just as Nomura stated several times that the heart has no true physical form. That "orb of light" we see that does represent a heart in the series is actually never physically held by someone. Even when young Sora welcomes Ventus' injured heart at the end of BBS, Sora does not physically hold it in his hands, it only floats between them.

I could surely also say something about the X-blade and stuff, but I first need to sort my own mind about it, lol.

The last thing with Ansem the Wise and DiZ was surely unexpected, but to be honest, that would be a scenario I could imagine coming from Nomura himself. *ggg*

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Quick question: Am I right in saying Terranort created a clone of AtW's heart as well as a clone of Xehanort's to put in DiZ? Because DiZ remembers being AtW, and AtW never became a Heartless. The reason Roxas didn't remember being Sora is because Sora didn't remain as a Heartless for very long (a process I'm going to do a thread on). So, unless DiZ has a cloned version of AtW's heart in him, he would have had AtW's memories only if AtW became a Heartless.

And if this is true, then how did Terranort manage to duplicate AtW's heart?

Otherwise, your theory fits in rather snugly. In fact, it would explain the reason DiZ agreed with Xemnas' lies about Nobodies not having hearts. We learned in DDD that AtW discovered the truth during his studies. The Xehanort heart within him led him to mislead everyone about that, so the Lights would not learn the Organization's true goal.

Also, when DiZ was destroyed by the KH Encoder, his body went to AtW's heart in the RoD. DiZ's memories and both hearts went into him as well, similar to how Xion's heart was transfered to Sora along with his memories.

This means both DiZ and AtW exist at the present time. So, either could be a Darkness. But, since AtW has learned from DiZ's mistakes, so to speak, it seems less likely that he'll give in to the Darkness. Also, there is the possibility Xehanort`s heart fragment was destroyed by the KH Encoder.

It seems more likely that DiZ will be brought forward in time, and that Xehanort will simply remove the cloned AtW heart, so the Xehanort can take over.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Xemnas never lied about Nobodies not having hearts, they DO NOT HAVE HEARTS in the beginning. What Xemnas lied about was that they are capable of giving birth to a new heart and that this one can be developed.
The reason DiZ "went along" with the notions of Nobodies not being able of growing hearts despite finding out was because of his unrelenting hatred and prejudice he had towards Nobodies in general, not because he was in league with Xemnas.
He alludes to that when he talks about the issues with Mickey in KH2 shortly before his Encoder exploded:

The process of encoding hearts is incalculable. The inhabitants of my Twilight Town were data created from real hearts. I was convinced that they would think and behave the way I had envisioned---but I couldn't have been more wrong. A heart is so much more than any system. I saw it when Roxas and Kairi crossed paths. I knew. But I was too stubborn to accept it.

He tried everything to destroy Organisation XIII and get revenge on those who banished him, in the process overgeneralizing and also treating innocent existences like crap just because they were Nobodies.
That's why he treated Naminé and Roxas so horribly, he didn't want to see and by the time he changed his mind it was too late and both Naminé and Roxas already ceased to exist.

Going by these points and that he was always working against the Organisation makes it for me even harder to believe that Ansem the Wise is in any shape or form in league with Xehanort.

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Xemnas never lied about Nobodies not having hearts, they DO NOT HAVE HEARTS in the beginning. What Xemnas lied about was that they are capable of giving birth to a new heart and that this one can be developed.The reason DiZ "went along" with the notions of Nobodies not being able of growing hearts despite finding out was because of his unrelenting hatred and prejudice he had towards Nobodies in general, not because he was in league with Xemnas.He alludes to that when he talks about the issues with Mickey in KH2 shortly before his Encoder exploded:He tried everything to destroy Organisation XIII and get revenge on those who banished him, in the process overgeneralizing and also treating innocent existences like crap just because they were Nobodies.That's why he treated Naminé and Roxas so horribly, he didn't want to see and by the time he changed his mind it was too late and both Naminé and Roxas already ceased to exist.Going by these points and that he was always working against the Organisation makes it for me even harder to believe that Ansem the Wise is in any shape or form in league with Xehanort.

I meant that about the Nobodies, and that AtW knew this.

As for the DiZ part: I actually meant that Xehanort's heart clouded his past knowledge and judgement, and presented him with Darkness, which DiZ turned into hatred. He still went after the Organization of his own volition.

As for why Xehanort's heart would want to destroy the Organization, remember that destroying Xemnas would result in Master Xehanort returning. This Xehanort heart in DiZ would kick DiZ into revenge mode, fueling his hatred so DiZ would act when the Org.'s original purpose, to create 13 vessels for Xehanort, began to fail. The members at Castle Oblivion were all unfit for vessel status, and were destroyed. Then DiZ arrived at C.O. to oversee Sora's reawakening, so Sora could exact revenge for DiZ's hatred, while also ensuring MX's return.

So, DiZ's cloned AtW heart actually hated the Organization, and was the one in command of his own emotions. Xehanort's heart was just happy to oblige his hatred. In other words, DiZ has no knowlege of a Xehanort heart within him. He doesn't even know he's a Nobody.

Then, if he WAS time-travelled to the present, all Xehanort needed to do is remove the DiZ heart. It was probably placed there in the first place so DiZ would not grow a new heart of his own. And since Xehanort was the one that placed it there, he can take it out just as easily.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

If DiZ harbored Xehanort's heart, I wouldn't necessarily say that he would directly develop a sense of loyalty towards Xehanort's goals. Rather, he would slowly become him in nature, basing his pursuits and goals off of how he would subconsciously develop. Maybe there can be found some deeper meaning in AtW's research, something that could be relevant to MX's longterm goals. If anything, though, DiZ wouldn't even notice a thing.

 

[Memory Master]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

First of all bravo. This was one of the best analysis of the series I have seen. This has inspired me to make a suggestion: To some one more artistically gifted than myself, I think it would be great if we could make visual analysis of the series as well. In the form of the following:

1. A diagram of the three parts of a being (Heart, Body, and Soul/Mind)
2. A diagram of the Kingdom Hearts Universe (The Realms of Light, Dark, In Between, Nothingness, Sleep, and Kingdom Hearts itself.)
3. A diagram showing all the different forms beings can take (Nobodies, Heartless, Somebodies, ect.) and the processes for how a person becomes each of these.
4. A detailed timeline of the series.
5. Some kind of diagram showing how Xehanort's plan has played out from begining to its suspected end, describing also how each game in the series plays a part in Xehanort's plan.

and there may be diagrams we could make of other things in the series as well. If we could make this pretty detailed and with a professional design then I think it will really be a big help to alot of fans who may not follow the series as closely as others do. Even though the wikis aren't 100% accurate, it still would be nice if we could even get these diagrams placed on the KH wikis.

 

[flyingfishstick]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

So according to this theory, the ATW from KH2 is a nobody with a fragment of Xehanort's heart. Ansem's own heart has been in the realm of darkness since the flashback at the beginning of DDD. If Ansem is missing his own heart to influence the Xehanort heart, wouldn't the Xehanort heart do more than give Ansem a more aggressive personality? Why would he reform at the end of KH2 if the only heart influencing his decisions was from Xehanort? Did he begin to grow a brand new heart by that point?

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

So according to this theory, the ATW from KH2 is a nobody with a fragment of Xehanort's heart. Ansem's own heart has been in the realm of darkness since the flashback at the beginning of DDD. If Ansem is missing his own heart to influence the Xehanort heart, wouldn't the Xehanort heart do more than give Ansem a more aggressive personality? Why would he reform at the end of KH2 if the only heart influencing his decisions was from Xehanort? Did he begin to grow a brand new heart by that point?

I suggested that Xehanort cloned AtW's heart, much like Xehanort's many cloned hearts. This cloned heart could be weaker; or it could even be made of data. Placing this heart and a Xehanort heart in the Nobody DiZ, would allow DiZ to remember being AtW, but be molded by Xehanort. The MXH within him would erase certain memories, such as the fact Nobodies can grow hearts of their own, and implant memories such as being thrown in the Darkness and escaping. It would also fill his heart with hatred. It then unleashes this hatred to make DiZ act against the Organization, as a backup plan to clean up the Org. and turn them to Somebodies, including MX.

DiZ reforms his act at the end of Kingdom Hearts 2 by gaining a moment of dominance. He blows himself up, sending the body and DiZ's heart back to Ansem in the RoD, and destroying the XH in him. Ansem slowly "re"gains his memories of being DiZ. Aqua finds him in this state in Blank Points, showing signs of memory loss. However, he remembers Sora's name at the end of their little palaver.

DiZ could be brought forward in time to become a Darkness. He fits the criteria: he exists in the present time, for his heart lives in AtW (the same way Roxas lives in Sora), and his body is AtW's body.

All Young Xehanort needed to do is bring the newly formed DiZ to the present, while he had not yet grown a heart.

Thus, DiZ can be in Where Nothing Gathers in time for MX's return. In my book he is DiZ, Darkness #12.

Not to mention Nomura did say there were some familiar faces under those hoods, and that some of them will be surprises. DiZ fits both.

 

[Got_it_Memorized]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

just a few quick things.

Mind officially blown
but i now have an enourmous headache from all the logic
very well done.
*claps

 

[Theta]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Woah! Lotta theory you have there. I gave it a quick read, and there was only one thing I really disagreed with was the bit about keyblades being man made counterparts to Kingdom Hearts. You said:

Granted, taking Theory #1 into consideration, that would mean that the X-Blade (and, by extension, all keyblades) are slightly biased towards Light. However, that's to be expected from a weapon known as the man-made counterpart to Kingdom Hearts.
...
And KH is light.
...
So keyblades are man-made counterparts to light.

That line from BbS never seemed to make complete sense to me until I played KH3D. In it, the x-blade was explained to be the Kingdom Hearts' counterpart so instead of substituting "Kingdom Hearts" for "light" you could substitute "counterparts to Kingdom Hearts" with the "x-blade" to get "keyblades are man-made x-blades." Aside from that, excellent theories, and I would have thought you spent 10hrs if you hadn't specified.

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

I suggested that Xehanort cloned AtW's heart, much like Xehanort's many cloned hearts. This cloned heart could be weaker; or it could even be made of data. Placing this heart and a Xehanort heart in the Nobody DiZ, would allow DiZ to remember being AtW, but be molded by Xehanort. The MXH within him would erase certain memories, such as the fact Nobodies can grow hearts of their own, and implant memories such as being thrown in the Darkness and escaping. It would also fill his heart with hatred. It then unleashes this hatred to make DiZ act against the Organization, as a backup plan to clean up the Org. and turn them to Somebodies, including MX.DiZ reforms his act at the end of Kingdom Hearts 2 by gaining a moment of dominance. He blows himself up, sending the body and DiZ's heart back to Ansem in the RoD, and destroying the XH in him. Ansem slowly "re"gains his memories of being DiZ. Aqua finds him in this state in Blank Points, showing signs of memory loss. However, he remembers Sora's name at the end of their little palaver.DiZ could be brought forward in time to become a Darkness. He fits the criteria: he exists in the present time, for his heart lives in AtW (the same way Roxas lives in Sora), and his body is AtW's body.All Young Xehanort needed to do is bring the newly formed DiZ to the present, while he had not yet grown a heart. Thus, DiZ can be in Where Nothing Gathers in time for MX's return. In my book he is DiZ, Darkness #12. Not to mention Nomura did say there were some familiar faces under those hoods, and that some of them will be surprises. DiZ fits both.

Wait, now that I think about it, Xehanort could have done the same thing to AtW as he did to Ventus: split the heart in half. The half that is "light", AtW, was sent to the RoD, and the "dark" half, DiZ, was placed in the Body along with a Xehanort heart.It makes more sense than randomly cloning AtW heart, anyway.

 

[Vanitas666]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Moral of the story: KH's light is the key to connecting all worlds into one entity. If KH's light doesn't exist on a physical level, neither does the physical connection between worlds.

They actually said this in KH I in kairi's grandmas story but I haven't seen anyone else but me who have thought about it.
Great thread anyway

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

First of all bravo. This was one of the best analysis of the series I have seen. This has inspired me to make a suggestion: To some one more artistically gifted than myself, I think it would be great if we could make visual analysis of the series as well. In the form of the following:

1. A diagram of the three parts of a being (Heart, Body, and Soul/Mind)
2. A diagram of the Kingdom Hearts Universe (The Realms of Light, Dark, In Between, Nothingness, Sleep, and Kingdom Hearts itself.)
3. A diagram showing all the different forms beings can take (Nobodies, Heartless, Somebodies, ect.) and the processes for how a person becomes each of these.
4. A detailed timeline of the series.
5. Some kind of diagram showing how Xehanort's plan has played out from begining to its suspected end, describing also how each game in the series plays a part in Xehanort's plan.

and there may be diagrams we could make of other things in the series as well. If we could make this pretty detailed and with a professional design then I think it will really be a big help to alot of fans who may not follow the series as closely as others do. Even though the wikis aren't 100% accurate, it still would be nice if we could even get these diagrams placed on the KH wikis.

Not sure about a diagram, but maybe a compilation of theories with the most approval, ranked by vote or something.

So according to this theory, the ATW from KH2 is a nobody with a fragment of Xehanort's heart. Ansem's own heart has been in the realm of darkness since the flashback at the beginning of DDD. If Ansem is missing his own heart to influence the Xehanort heart, wouldn't the Xehanort heart do more than give Ansem a more aggressive personality? Why would he reform at the end of KH2 if the only heart influencing his decisions was from Xehanort? Did he begin to grow a brand new heart by that point?

DiZ is still his own person to an extent, much like how Xigbar was, even with his own cloned heart. Also, AtW was influenced by Sora, as he explained in Blank Points.

Woah! Lotta theory you have there. I gave it a quick read, and there was only one thing I really disagreed with was the bit about keyblades being man made counterparts to Kingdom Hearts. You said:


That line from BbS never seemed to make complete sense to me until I played KH3D. In it, the x-blade was explained to be the Kingdom Hearts' counterpart so instead of substituting "Kingdom Hearts" for "light" you could substitute "counterparts to Kingdom Hearts" with the "x-blade" to get "keyblades are man-made x-blades." Aside from that, excellent theories, and I would have thought you spent 10hrs if you hadn't specified.

Agreeable to a certain extent, I'll admit. However, Saying that keyblades are man-made counterparts to the X-Blade is the same as saying that they're man-made counterparts to KH. KH and the X-Blade are coexistent, so they supposedly exist on the same level of higher existence. In other words, associating something with the X-Blade is the same as associating said object with KH.

Wait, now that I think about it, Xehanort could have done the same thing to AtW as he did to Ventus: split the heart in half. The half that is "light", AtW, was sent to the RoD, and the "dark" half, DiZ, was placed in the Body along with a Xehanort heart.It makes more sense than randomly cloning AtW heart, anyway.

Splitting a heart in half creates negativity, which then creates Unversed.

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

Splitting a heart in half creates negativity, which then creates Unversed.

Derp, forgot about that! *slams forehead on desk...repeatedly*

Well, If DiZ is AtW's Nobody, I guess the biggest question is: how did he recieve AtW's memories if AtW didn't become a Heartless?

That was Roxas' problem. Sora didn't stay as a Heartless for very long, resulting in Roxas not recieving his memories. All other Nobodies (except maybe Xemnas) had their past selves' memories, but seeing as Sora and Xehanort are supposed to be the only two who retained their sense of self after becoming Heartless (they retained their minds/memories), the other Nobodies all had normal Heartless, who stayed that way until destruction.

So, AtW should have become a Heartless, if DiZ got his memories. But it doesn't seem that way (unless said Heartless was a Darkside, destroyed by Terra and Ven's flying keyblades. However, it is my understanding the amount of Darkness in a person determines the type of Heartless they become. AtW didn't seem to have all that much Darkness, so...).

Did Terranort clone AtW's heart, putting it in DiZ as well as a Xehanort heart, or did something else happen?

 

[Nayru's Love]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

From my understanding, Sora retained his memories as a result of Kairi's will to not forget him. Either way, though, I think (under normal circumstances) that it's possible to create a Nobody with the same memories in such a case. As we've seen with Braig, his birth as a Nobody didn't involve him becoming a Heartless. However, the flaw in that argument is that, what if Braig's heart became a Heartless later?

 

[Xblade13]

Re: Massive Series Analysis: X-Blade's nature, "7/13," what really really REALLY happened to AtW, et

From my understanding, Sora retained his memories as a result of Kairi's will to not forget him. Either way, though, I think (under normal circumstances) that it's possible to create a Nobody with the same memories in such a case. As we've seen with Braig, his birth as a Nobody didn't involve him becoming a Heartless. However, the flaw in that argument is that, what if Braig's heart became a Heartless later?

Braig didn't make a Heartless? Maybe they don't appear in the same place/at the same time a split happens?

Other than that I have no idea.

You should read post #10 on my "Heart, Body, and Soul/Mind" thread. (I don't know how to make a link to it--don't even know if I can. I'm forced to type this out on my Wii. It's faster than if I used a different console, but it has a LOT of disadvantages ). It is a completely redone version of that theory.