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Maybe Riku didn't dual wield



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Just a quick thought.

It's been taken to be common knowledge at this point that Riku was dual wielding when he passed Destiny's Embrace on to Kairi. While this is a reasonable assumption, and very probable, it's not confirmed. And that's really all I'm pointing out in this thread. We can't just act like Riku dual wielding is a confirmed fact.

So if he wasn't dual wielding, where did he get the keyblade? The implication in the very question I'm asking is that he literally took the keyblade from somewhere (or someone) else. I've come up with two ideas, both involving Aqua.

1. This idea is one I believe has been tossed around before, can't exactly remember. What Riku is holding is actually Eraqus' keyblade. In other words, Riku may have met Aqua in the Realm of Darkness and she passed his keyblade on to Riku, while Riku passed it on to Kairi.

Obviously, this brings up a couple questions.
Why would Aqua do that in the first place? Well, remember how Nomura said Aqua is the only one that currently knows how to get to Ven? Part of that undoubtedly comes from Eraqus' keyblade. If she can turn LoD into CO, she can probably turn it back, or at least stop it from being an endless maze. If Aqua wasn't capable of rescuing Ven herself, then I would think it logical for her to pass the keyblade on to the next in line. That is, if Aqua is the successor to Eraqus, who is the successor to Aqua? Kairi. Riku may have been the "delivery boy" for Kairi, and she may acquire the necessary knowledge in the future to find Ven and use Eraqus' keyblade.

If Riku were to reveal himself to Aqua (in the same manner as he did to Sora afterward), I'm sure she would recognize him as that little boy on the islands. Heck, Riku might even remember her since it's implied he remembers Terra. So I imagine she would trust him to pass it on. The problem is how she'd be aware that Kairi is her successor, since the rite was performed accidentally. Perhaps she wasn't and was simply passing the keyblade to Riku, and Riku in turn felt it belonged to Kairi for obvious reasons.

Why wouldn't Riku save Aqua though? This is another problem, but it's not contained to just Riku. You have to ask why Mickey didn't save her either. You could argue that they somehow got separated or something to that effect, but if that's the case, then why do Mickey and Yen Sid talk about her casually as if they know she's ok? ("Oh, well I found Aqua in the Dark Realm... and then left her... over a year ago... I'm sure she's ok now!").

That, coupled with the fact that Aqua has been there for ten years makes things questionable. It may be true that escape is based on luck if you're not capable of producing a CoD, but the difference seems almost ludicrous. Riku and Mickey are hardly in there for any time (months at the most), while Aqua has been in there for over 11 years? I think there may be some problem with her escape. Either she is incapable of escaping even through a CoD for some reason, or she chooses to stay voluntarily because there's something in there she must do.


2. This is a theory I don't believe I've seen before.

The keyblade Kairi uses is Aqua's. How did Riku get his mitts on Aqua's keyblade? Did he break into the Chamber of Repose? Not necessarily.

Remember that scene in KH2FM of Xemnas visiting the CoR. My understanding was that this scene was in the present time (if it wasn't, this still works, but yeah). Basically, while everyone was off fighting the Heartless invasion, Xemnas used this opportunity to sneak into the CoR. Seems odd, doesn't it? It's like he created a huge diversion just so he could see Aqua's armor/keyblade. Or maybe he did more than that. He may have taken them because he planned to use them for something.

I would venture to guess that he tried using Aqua's keyblade but wasn't capable. He does imply, after all, that he would like to use one ("were it only in more... capable hands). So where would he keep Aqua's Keyblade? Somewhere in TCTNW. And that's where we first see Riku with it.

Basically, then, when Riku sneaked in, he found the keyblade and then passed it on to Kairi. Perhaps it reacted to her presence since it transformed into Destiny's Embrace.

-----------

That's about it, not much to it.
I know that the novels basically say that Riku doesn't even know how he obtained the keyblade, but since they're second tier canon, I would take that fact with a grain of salt.

It could still work even with Riku being unaware in the latter case, though. For instance, he walks by the keyblade and it "gravitates" toward him, so to speak.
 

ROXAS_32

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Riku duel wielding was always a grey area for me... i mean clearly he handed kairi the destiny embrace keyblade... i kinda surprised it wast brought up in one of the latter nomura interviews
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Ever since BBS and BBSFM, I've been a believer in the theory that Riku had an extra Heart chillin' with him (Xehanort's Heartless) which allowed him to dual wield.
 

Arkrend

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Ever since BBS and BBSFM, I've been a believer in the theory that Riku had an extra Heart chillin' with him (Xehanort's Heartless) which allowed him to dual wield.
But can it work that way? I mean if a Heartless, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, merges with someone do they now have two hearts?

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' presence in Riku is what allowed Riku to take on his form. Riku pretty much chose to tap into that power that rested in him, but at the end of Kingdom Hearts II Riku was reverted to normal. Does that mean prior to Riku returning to normal he had two hearts? Does that mean the reason the device only really effect Riku, Ansem the Wise doesn't really count since he seems the same minus memory, is that the blast knocked Ansem Seeker of Darkness' heart out?

I assuming Heartless have hearts trapped in them. In Kingdom Hearts II when a Heartless is defeated by the keyblade, other than a pureblood, a heart is released into the Realm of Darkness. So that would mean Ansem Seeker of Darkness still had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. When he joined with Riku then Riku had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. Once Ansem the Wise's machine malfunctioned Apprentice Xehanort's heart was expelled from Riku.

Of course I'm still a little confused on the whole thing of how Ansem Seeker of Darkness was destroyed in Kingdom Hearts I, but Riku could still use his power in Chain of Memories, 365/2 Days, and Kingdom Hearts II.

Pretty much everything dealing with Riku is confusing.
 

Megavoltage

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1. This idea is one I believe has been tossed around before, can't exactly remember. What Riku is holding is actually Eraqus' keyblade. In other words, Riku may have met Aqua in the Realm of Darkness and she passed his keyblade on to Riku, while Riku passed it on to Kairi.
This sounded kind of dumb to me at first. Aqua giving her only weapon to Riku? How is she espoused to survive against the armies of Heartless in the Realm of Darkness if she does something like that? It's suicide.

But then I remembered the flying Keyblades that saved Aqua. Maybe she found one of those dark realm keyblades, like how Mickey got the Kingdom Key D, and that's how she's able to give Eraqus' keyblade to Riku.
 

Vani

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I can see it being both ways but the second one kinda makes more. I am intrigued now by the possibility of Aqua staying in the DR for something else..

But can it work that way? I mean if a Heartless, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, merges with someone do they now have two hearts?

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' presence in Riku is what allowed Riku to take on his form. Riku pretty much chose to tap into that power that rested in him, but at the end of Kingdom Hearts II Riku was reverted to normal. Does that mean prior to Riku returning to normal he had two hearts? Does that mean the reason the device only really effect Riku, Ansem the Wise doesn't really count since he seems the same minus memory, is that the blast knocked Ansem Seeker of Darkness' heart out?

I assuming Heartless have hearts trapped in them. In Kingdom Hearts II when a Heartless is defeated by the keyblade, other than a pureblood, a heart is released into the Realm of Darkness. So that would mean Ansem Seeker of Darkness still had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. When he joined with Riku then Riku had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. Once Ansem the Wise's machine malfunctioned Apprentice Xehanort's heart was expelled from Riku.

Of course I'm still a little confused on the whole thing of how Ansem Seeker of Darkness was destroyed in Kingdom Hearts I, but Riku could still use his power in Chain of Memories, 365/2 Days, and Kingdom Hearts II.

Pretty much everything dealing with Riku is confusing.
Well. Xehanort had three hearts inside him. Whose do you think would be inside Riku? I can see it being Terra but itd be a huge plot twist if Riku had Master Xehanort inside him the whole time in KH2.
 
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But can it work that way? I mean if a Heartless, Ansem Seeker of Darkness, merges with someone do they now have two hearts?

Ansem Seeker of Darkness' presence in Riku is what allowed Riku to take on his form. Riku pretty much chose to tap into that power that rested in him, but at the end of Kingdom Hearts II Riku was reverted to normal. Does that mean prior to Riku returning to normal he had two hearts? Does that mean the reason the device only really effect Riku, Ansem the Wise doesn't really count since he seems the same minus memory, is that the blast knocked Ansem Seeker of Darkness' heart out?

I assuming Heartless have hearts trapped in them. In Kingdom Hearts II when a Heartless is defeated by the keyblade, other than a pureblood, a heart is released into the Realm of Darkness. So that would mean Ansem Seeker of Darkness still had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. When he joined with Riku then Riku had Apprentice Xehanort's heart inside of him. Once Ansem the Wise's machine malfunctioned Apprentice Xehanort's heart was expelled from Riku.

Of course I'm still a little confused on the whole thing of how Ansem Seeker of Darkness was destroyed in Kingdom Hearts I, but Riku could still use his power in Chain of Memories, 365/2 Days, and Kingdom Hearts II.

Pretty much everything dealing with Riku is confusing.

There's a good chance that Terra's heart is within Riku in which case it is sensible to think that Riku may have had the ability to dual wield.
All I'm really doing in this topic is offering alternatives to that idea since it has literally been paraded around as fact for a while now.
 

Reagan Rayden

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It's been taken to be common knowledge at this point that Riku was dual wielding when he passed Destiny's Embrace on to Kairi....So if he wasn't dual wielding, where did he get the keyblade?

I thought it was revealed in one of the novels that Riku got Destiny's Embrace when he was thinking of Kairi and it simply came to him through the thought somehow.
 

Megavoltage

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I thought it was revealed in one of the novels that Riku got Destiny's Embrace when he was thinking of Kairi and it simply came to him through the thought somehow.
Maybe Riku got a keyblade from Aqua but suffered some memory loss like Ansem the Wise.
So later on Riku accidentally summons the keyblade without remembering how he got it in the first place.
 

Nayru's Love

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The idea of Riku not dual-wielding at that point definitely seems plausible. Under the possibility that he didn't, it could potentially raise questions regarding the qualifications for dual-wielding.

That, coupled with the fact that Aqua has been there for ten years makes things questionable. It may be true that escape is based on luck if you're not capable of producing a CoD, but the difference seems almost ludicrous. Riku and Mickey are hardly in there for any time (months at the most), while Aqua has been in there for over 11 years? I think there may be some problem with her escape. Either she is incapable of escaping even through a CoD for some reason, or she chooses to stay voluntarily because there's something in there she must do.

Even though Aqua was technically in there for 11+ years, it didn't felt like more than months to her since the flow of time in the RoD is different. Regardless, it was still a long time to her either way.
 

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Man, I think of the novels as third-tier canon, and the interviews as second-tier. Besides, I never believe that stuff until I've read it myself or talked to/know the reputation of the person who translated it, because you can't always trust fan translations to be all that accurate. We're just fans after all, and our language levels can be very very different.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Man, I think of the novels as third-tier canon, and the interviews as second-tier. Besides, I never believe that stuff until I've read it myself or talked to/know the reputation of the person who translated it, because you can't always trust fan translations to be all that accurate. We're just fans after all, and our language levels can be very very different.

That might be a better way of saying it.
 

Mirby

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Isn't the only reason Sora (and Roxas) is able to dual-wield because of the influence of Ven's heart? I mean, Sora can only do it when in Master/Final form, but I think Roxas can do it with greater ease.

I mean, the possibility of Riku dual-wielding might increase if in fact Terra's heart was inside him at the time, but there are far more probable alternatives. Which is exactly what this thread is about.
 

Reagan Rayden

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No one really knows where Terra's heart is at the moment. It's not impossible that it's inside Riku. We don't know everything that went on when he was roaming the worlds by himself.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Isn't the only reason Sora (and Roxas) is able to dual-wield because of the influence of Ven's heart? I mean, Sora can only do it when in Master/Final form, but I think Roxas can do it with greater ease.

I mean, the possibility of Riku dual-wielding might increase if in fact Terra's heart was inside him at the time, but there are far more probable alternatives. Which is exactly what this thread is about.

Indeed it is, the dual-wielding is only possible due to Ventus's heart being sheltered within Sora, and so far the only confirmed influence Ven has on Sora at all.
It was also confirmed that Sora didn't inherit anything from Ventus, so the second keyblade is more like "borrowed".
Roxas can use the same powers since he was born from Sora but has elements from both Sora (mostly) and Ventus (to a lesser degree).
Due to the great damage to Ven's heart his keyblade was sealed though...Roxas inadvertently managed to activate the keyblade when he had the emotional breakdown when Xion disappeared,
As Roxas is within Sora now he could possibly use both blades now also in normal mode.

Sure, as this is kept under wraps pretty good we can play through different scenarios for that.
As for Grass's theories, I can somehow live better with the second theory, as
I strongly doubt that Aqua would entrust someone other with Eraqus's keyblade, especially if it is really needed to reach the chamber of waking.
Furthermore, she's the new "keeper" of the world and she changed it especially so Ventus would be kept safe and only she would be able to reach him...her intention would be pretty much contradicted by giving Eraqus's keyblade away then.
Not to mention she would not have anymore defense in the RoD then.

No one really knows where Terra's heart is at the moment. It's not impossible that it's inside Riku. We don't know everything that went on when he was roaming the worlds by himself.

That's true, Nomura hinted however that "something" of Terra might be in Riku...what that is is still unknown though.

The mystery that surrounds all this and how the hearts, powers and memories of Master Xehanort, Terra and Eraqus were divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas is rumored to also play a role in DDD, so we'll just have to wait and see.
 

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It's not impossible, but it's not probable.

Xemnas remembering Aqua and Ven is because of the influence of Terra's memories inside him. And since it was Ansem SoD that inhabited Riku briefly and not Xemnas, it's very unlikely that Terra's heart (and by extension that of Eraqus) ever came in contact with Riku's.
 

Sephiroth0812

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It's not impossible, but it's not probable.

Xemnas remembering Aqua and Ven is because of the influence of Terra's memories inside him. And since it was Ansem SoD that inhabited Riku briefly and not Xemnas, it's very unlikely that Terra's heart (and by extension that of Eraqus) ever came in contact with Riku's.

Do you know about any "influence" Terra had on Ansem SoD?
No, so we should not judge that fast.
Xemnas having some memories of Terra doesn't automatically mean that he also had Terra's heart.
Since Ansem SoD is a "special" heartless and he and Xemnas co-existed it is pretty much possible they were connected as well, just like Sora and Roxas were while they existed separately from each other.
 
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