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My idea about the white creatures



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biggamerjh

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The new creatures in Kingdom Hearts 2, they have been called Dusk or Non Existent Ones, no one seems quite sure. They are belived to be an enemy of the heartless and the heros. I personally thing they are the polar opposite of the heartless, what happens when someone is consumed by light. Because of the symbol on thier head I refer to them as Mindless (it looks like and anchor to me, perhapse symbolizing freedom from the burden of thought, this may seem dumb but the heartless have a heart symbol on thier chests). I want to know what others think of this theory so post and let me know.

http://www.khinsider.com/info/kh2characters/whitecreatures.shtml
 
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sora_123

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it makes sense, since heartless seem to have some intelligence compare with dusk ( as for the heartless symbol, ansem was the one who created them, that's why he place his symbol on them)
 

biggamerjh

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exactly, the scrawny white creature is known as a Flailer, and from the few seconds of video i have seen of it it seems comical. Who says that to much light isnt bad, if the darkness doesn't control you you have nothing to fear but if you give in... the light may be the same.
here is part of the first game that implies the light can cause problems

Mysterious Voice: The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow
becomes.
in other words more light = more darkness
 

NJMIgnatio

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biggamerjh said:
The new creatures in Kingdom Hearts 2, they have been called Dusk or Non Existent Ones, no one seems quite sure. They are belived to be an enemy of the heartless and the heros. I personally thing they are the polar opposite of the heartless, what happens when someone is consumed by light. Because of the symbol on thier head I refer to them as Mindless (it looks like and anchor to me, perhapse symbolizing freedom from the burden of thought, this may seem dumb but the heartless have a heart symbol on thier chests). I want to know what others think of this theory so post and let me know.

http://www.khinsider.com/info/kh2characters/whitecreatures.shtml

It's been speculated that they may be the actual essence(or absence of) of the soul, as opposed to the heartless bereft of the heart. Great theory, Bigga...

Perhaps another thought: Heart, Body, Mind, and Soul; light, dark, twilight, and present.
 

DarkKeira16

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hmm,interesting but i dont think that whole mindless thing was correct tho.It may be correct but for now i cant say anything about it.Keep up the theories because i like to think about these types of things.
 

TheMuffinMan

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They're called Non-existant ones, or Nobody, not "Mindless" because losing your mind doesn't mean anything in the KH universe. It just means your crazy XP

There are three things:

Heart, Body, and Soul.

The Body and Soul cannot seperate from each other, but the Heart can. A body and Soul can sustain life, because the Body is alive because the Soul gives it life. If the heart is strong enough, the Heart can live on it's own too, but it would have no vessel to hold itself in.

Ansem is an example of a Heart that was too strong to become a Heartless, but cast away his Body and Soul. His Heart was strong enough to exist on it's own... he just had no form. Therefore Ansem wore his brown coat.

Ansem used Riku as a vessel, by manipulating Riku into opening his heart to the darkness.

Either way, when the Heart leaves to become a heartless, the body and soul can still sustain life. And as said in Ansem report 11 and up, the Body and Soul are sent to another realm of some sort, where it becomes a Nobody.

When a person of a strong Heart, casts off thier body, or become a Heartless, the Body and Soul left behind, are somehow different from the Body and Soul left behind by an average person. They continue life from the day the Heart left, as if it never happened.

Whether they keep thier memories from thier other existance, we do not know. I speculate that they do not, seeing as Memories are in our hearts and therefore follow the Heart. Due to the fact that they have no Heart, and technically aren't thier own existance seeing how they aren't what they used to be, yet still live on, they couldn't necessarily be deemed existant, hence the name Non-Existant one.

-------------------------

Explanation of Heartless, Nobody, Non-existant one's, Shells, whatever you want to call it, provided by me.

Now, onto showing you the flaws in your theory. One being shrouded in pure light is not a bad thing. Sora is the Hero of Light, he walks in the Realm of Light and is all things pure and good, does this make him evil?

No.

The quote "The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow become's" is one of my favorite quotes. It does not mean that seeking the light leads only to Darknss, or that following the light is the same exact thing as following the Darkness...

I like this quote because it can be seen in many ways,

The more you walk towards the metaphorical light (Good, your goals, the right thing to do, heaven in a sence, truthfullness) the more the bad things will try and stop you (Devil, people with bad intentions, manipulation, things trying to send you astray)...

Or, in the sence of actualy light, the closer you are to the metaphorical light, the bigger the darkness behind you is. But if you can face that darkness growing behind you, then you can reach your light.

Just because going towards the light means getting a shadow behind you, doesn't mean that reaching that light isn't worth the battle with the darkness.

The closer you are to the light, the greater the darkness may seem....
 

robotkiller

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thats what i always thought that they were the evil light creatures,as heartless were the evil dark creatures.
 

Zeal

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interesting muffinman, thx for explaining that body soul and heart thing. It works with my theory i've posted about a month ago, but a little different. Here Sora is the Heart of BHK who is the mere shell (body, soul) existing in the real world. But Sora is the one who has forgotten his past and lives only in his memory that is childhood.

As for that philosophical opinon of yours that if you approach the light the forces of evil try to hold you from going further I disagree with you, but that's another subject.
 

biggamerjh

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well TheMuffinMan it is nice to havesomeone who can debate my ideas intelligently. My thought on the soul is that the heart and the mind are both parts of the soul. So the NOE have a body but no soul. Now as for Sora being a hero who uses light you are correct he isn't evil but he isn't consumed by the light like Heartless are consumed by the darkness, think of it as a scale, as long as you arent to "heavy" in one direction you can still exist, or maybe if you are strong enogh you wont be consumed by it, Riku wasn't totally consumed by the darkness in his heart. And what about Diz, he is ballenced perfectly, niethere light nor dark but he seems to bee a good person (from what we have seen) not evil and even dont forget the crusades, good intentions leading to mass murder and war, even the best intentions can have horrible reasults. Balence is key..
Ansems quest for knowledge lead to bad things, he improved his mind but his heart withered
 

TheMuffinMan

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No, his heart did not wither, his heart strengthened....

His ability to sutain his existance on only his Heart prooves that it was strong.

The Heart and Soul are not connected, because the Heart sustains life without a Body or a Soul. A Body, however, cannot. The only reason why Shells exist, or are alive, is because th Soul that is tied to the Body, give the body life.

And yes, Sora is consumed by light...

Ansem's Report 13

When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?

Heart and soul are separate, and the soul remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.
However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?

If we take that to be the case, there must be a you other than yourself existing somewhere.

An existence neither of darkness nor of light.

An in-between existence. Cast off by the heart, a mere shell, one who begrudges both the darkness and the light.This mystery cannot be easily resolved. The relationship between the heart and the flesh is a complex one.

But since we exist here, they cannot be termed as existent.Therefore I shall call them...

"The non-existent ones."
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Themuffinman said:
No, his heart did not wither, his heart strengthened....

His ability to sutain his existance on only his Heart prooves that it was strong.

The Heart and Soul are not connected, because the Heart sustains life without a Body or a Soul. A Body, however, cannot. The only reason why Shells exist, or are alive, is because th Soul that is tied to the Body, give the body life.

And yes, Sora is consumed by light...
but i got a question if darkness can be used for good couldnt light be used for evil and vice-versa or wateva
 

TheMuffinMan

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Yes, but one who is corrupted, or evil, then they would never become Light in the first place...

It's kind of like Time travel... you know how if you go back and kill your grandpa, then that means you wouldn't be born, which means you wouldn't be alive to go back in time to kill your grandpa, which would therefore mean that your grandpa stays alive, which menas you are alive again...

Yea, that's what it's like...

If you have Evil intentions, are manipulated into doing bad things, or just have evil in you, then you can't be light in the first place, which therefore means you can't use Light for bad, because you can't be bad, and weild the light at the same time...
 

biggamerjh

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Themuffinman said:
Yes, but one who is corrupted, or evil, then they would never become Light in the first place...

It's kind of like Time travel... you know how if you go back and kill your grandpa, then that means you wouldn't be born, which means you wouldn't be alive to go back in time to kill your grandpa, which would therefore mean that your grandpa stays alive, which menas you are alive again...

Yea, that's what it's like...

If you have Evil intentions, are manipulated into doing bad things, or just have evil in you, then you can't be light in the first place, which therefore means you can't use Light for bad, because you can't be bad, and weild the light at the same time...

there is an old little saying I am fond of
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
In other words good intentions can cause bad things to happen.
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Themuffinman said:
Yes, but one who is corrupted, or evil, then they would never become Light in the first place...

It's kind of like Time travel... you know how if you go back and kill your grandpa, then that means you wouldn't be born, which means you wouldn't be alive to go back in time to kill your grandpa, which would therefore mean that your grandpa stays alive, which menas you are alive again...

Yea, that's what it's like...

If you have Evil intentions, are manipulated into doing bad things, or just have evil in you, then you can't be light in the first place, which therefore means you can't use Light for bad, because you can't be bad, and weild the light at the same time...
but wat if some1 turns corrupted while they have light
 

TheMuffinMan

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If someone of Light turns bad, then they are no longer light anymore, simple as that.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because being consumed light doesn't turn you into a Nobody, so this debate is pointless since it prooves nothing...
 

RikuHeroOfDark

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Themuffinman said:
If someone of Light turns bad, then they are no longer light anymore, simple as that.

Either way, it doesn't matter, because being consumed light doesn't turn you into a Nobody, so this debate is pointless since it prooves nothing...
i wasnt debating i was just asking thanx for clearing dat up by da way
 
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