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My thoughts on Sora/Roxas/Ven, "Birth by Sleep", and all that good stuff...



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verrici

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Just real quick. reading that kinda gave me a head ache but did anyone notcie that the three soldiers looked like organization members? The big brown haired guy is Lexaeus with his hair smothed back and they call him the Silent Hero. Blue is Zexion, all you need to do to Zexion his turn his hair and blow up his chst alittle and Van is Roxas. Maybe, just a stab, but each of the organization members made heartless forms of themselves do to the fact they keep their human form as nobodies.

Now hear is another food for thought. What happened to the replica Riku and does that have to do with the shaow warrior that the EGM (think that's it) made. That bald headed guy I think IS Xenanhort.to just close off maybe they are IN the DTD, just a thought because the color of KH was different. If they were in the DTD that would explan how mickey got there.
 
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V.A.T.13

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verrici: org members = knights? nu-uh. very very very very totemo totemo unliekly yo.

Repliku? He's dead Jim.
 

Sexy Angel
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-_-

The knights arent org memebers, they are confirmed to be new characters by nomura.
 

darklight

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ok the first thing: people... if you think the topic is too long don't spam it full of junk!!

about the theory: good work! but about the keyblade fade away and turn into a sphere he is right (my cousin and me we ripped the secret ending from the japanese version of the game and with a dvd recorder recorded on a dvd, so we can look it on 1/7 slowmotion) i think (here comes my theory) that Ven really turned into a heartless and lives a secret unwanting life like riku... somehow xehanort promised him to help but he wants his help in return so ven kidnapped aqua (you see her in a movie in the final mix in the basement of hollow bastion (altough it could be ven too) after that ven asked some things about the keyblade holder and xehanort told him he would tell him later

after that comes that movie in wich xehanort tells him about the keyblade holder (he looks alot like you)
but about the pictures... the second one isn't roxas... well he doesn't looks like him.
kairi's keyblade?? she hasn't one riku gives her only one and since riku isn't a keyblade ruler he isn't able to give other people a keyblade... it's just a keyblade full of flowers he diidn't liked... or one he made for her (it wouldn't be the first time he makes a keyblade) but roxas isn't born when ven... eh... lost his heart
remember what yen sid said:" if someone with a strong heart turns into a heartless a nobodie is born" and after that sora and kairi:" but i never turned into a...o..." "in hollow bastion when you saved me remember?" sooo...

about the rest: it's good and it all make sense good work!!
 

Ash Dragonfang

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uhh i need some explanitaion.(been away from the kingdom hearts sites with info and all that stuff) How do you know their names. What is the opposite keyblade. And what is with all the stuff about that BHS ven or something being a heartless?
 

Awesome Ansem

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and in the next shot of the UEM, we see him holding something... if you continually push the play/pause button, the scene progresses slowly enough that, if you catch it at the right angle, it looks like a heart inside the sphere. I believe this is Ven's heart and that's what the UEM was after to begin with so that he could summon Kingdom Hearts.

That "heart" that the UEM is holding comes from his keyblade, not Ven, unless you can tell me that Ven is the UEM's keyblade. Why would the UEM need ven's heart to summon kh. When does a heart ever sommon kh? In the games, it takes two keyblades to even open it, so I don't think that the UEM simply needed Ven's heart to activate kingdom hearts.

... and when his nobody, Roxas, was created, it was created with Ven's heart... this would be why Roxas is IDENTICAL to Ven, and would make him have a heart (Axel: You really do have a heart don't you?) and be able to wield a Keyblade.

So you're saying that a nobody was created with a heart. Wouldn't that just be a regular person? Roxas was able to weild a keyblade because sora can weild a keyblade. That keyblade belonged to sora, therefore it also belongs to sora's body and soul.

OK.. now what ALWAYS happens when someone loses their heart?!?!?!

THEY BECOME A HEARTLESS!!!!!!!!

This makes EVERYTHING fit! The heartless symbol on the glowing-eyed guy, his eyes glowing like heartless eyes, him looking like Roxas/Sora ("He looks just like you" or whatever the quote is), him being able to use portals of darkness, and all that good stuff!

When someone loses their heart, the heart becomes a heartless and that body disappears to the realm of nothingness and becomes a nobody. Both of those things clearly didn't happen with ven was frozen....so I'm pretty sure that means he didn't become a heartless. Were you saying that ven's heart-lacking body became a heartless? Because that would never happen. Didn't the first cutscene in kh2 show that the guy walking through the rock was roxas? yes, it was roxas. That's why xemnas says "he looks just like you" refering to xemnas's visit to sora at hollow bastion. And roxas can use portals of darkness because all nobodies can use portals of darkness.


So... this is what I've put together, and it makes sense to me, just like Bryantjj said, why would they put the same person in the final shot 2 times? And why would a nobody have a Heartless symbol on their chest... and another thing about that... I didn't mention this in my other post, but if you remember Ansem, Xehanorts Heartless, when you see him at the end of the game, with his shirt unbuttoned, you see a heartless symbol on his chest as well. Which, I think, means that the figure that comes out of the rock at that scene HAS to be a heartless. Thus, must be Ven. These are my thoughts.... enjoy.

I think they showed roxas twice because they wanted us to think that "blone haired kid" and "glowing eye unknown" were two different people. I don't know this for a fact, but it is confirmed that they are both roxas. I really don't know why the heartless symbol appeared on the rock, but they took it out for the actual game, so maybe they didn't want it there. Ansem never had a heartless symbol on his chest, he had a necklace, that's why there was a chain attached to the symbol that went around his neck.

He enters his ID "Another" And he enters the pass., the princesses names, and starts some program or something, takes the disk out, and continues over to the elevator that takes you into that HUGE room.

The password was the names of the six aprentices, that's why there are six names, not seven. And all the numbers of letters matched up with the aprentices, not the princesses.

. Because the hooded Org. member says that he has heard Xemnas talking to someone in there. And he says that there cannot be a "Room of Sleep" without a "Room of Awakening" where he believes the person Xemnas is talking to resides.

the hooded guy is xigbar. And he said the xemnas's other friend is in the room of awakening. How can the same friend be in both rooms at the same time?

and if so... it that the keyblades true form? Or does it have a Keychain on it that is altering it's appearance?
(talking about kairi's keyblade)

Kingdom key has a keychain, is that not the keyblade's true form? Who says that a keyblade is in "true form" when it doesn't have a keychain?

Nomura said himself that for every heart, there is ONE keyblade made for them. In other words... I believe that Mickey has had the Opposite Keyblade for as long as he has had a Keyblade, and that Star Seeker was MEARLY a KEYCHAIN just as it was for Sora... and that Yen Sid gave him that Keychain while Mickey was an apprentice to him... as a result... I believe that Mickey was Yen Sid's apprentice during the KH2FMSE...

Nomura didn't say that there is exactly one keyblade for every qualified person. He was just saying that the number of keyblades is not limited. A keyblade isn't made for exactly one person. Nomura did say that mickey went to the dark realm to find a keyblade. Mickey didn't have the dark keyblade when he was an aprentice because he got that keyblade during kh1.

There are many people who think that Mickey "went out and got" the Opposite Keyblade... NO... you can't just waltz out and say, "Oh I think I'm gonna get a new keyblade today." no no no... haha. Mickey had the Opposite blade already.

Nomura freakin said that during kh1 mickey went to the realm of darkness to find a keyblade. No one knows how he got that keyblade but he did. If you don't agree, take it up with nomura.


I probably would've taken this theory more seriously if there weren't so many things already disproving it. I tend to like it more when people make theories that are supported with legitimate evidence.
 
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sora4ever

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Geez... if that doesn't make someone feel bad about themself, I don't know what will...

I'm gonna try to defend myself here...

That "heart" that the UEM is holding comes from his keyblade, not Ven, unless you can tell me that Ven is the UEM's keyblade. Why would the UEM need ven's heart to summon kh. When does a heart ever sommon kh? In the games, it takes two keyblades to even open it, so I don't think that the UEM simply needed Ven's heart to activate kingdom hearts.

And no... it doesn't take two keyblades to open it, it takes two keyblades to lock it. And again... it's a theory, not something I believe is set in stone, so obviously it might have some loop holes or points that aren't correct. That's going to happen with every theory

So you're saying that a nobody was created with a heart. Wouldn't that just be a regular person? Roxas was able to weild a keyblade because sora can weild a keyblade. That keyblade belonged to sora, therefore it also belongs to sora's body and soul.

Yes, that is what I'm saying... just because everyone told him he was a nobody, doesn't necessarily mean that he was one. I know it's far fetched, but again, it's a theory. And think outside the box a little... geez. That theory is WAY too old and WAY overused... It's too simple.

When someone loses their heart, the heart becomes a heartless and that body disappears to the realm of nothingness and becomes a nobody. Both of those things clearly didn't happen with ven was frozen....so I'm pretty sure that means he didn't become a heartless. Were you saying that ven's heart-lacking body became a heartless? Because that would never happen. Didn't the first cutscene in kh2 show that the guy walking through the rock was roxas? yes, it was roxas. That's why xemnas says "he looks just like you" refering to xemnas's visit to sora at hollow bastion. And roxas can use portals of darkness because all nobodies can use portals of darkness.

I know this, but if his body had dissapeared immediately, we wouldn't have seen his face, would we? lol... and he was frozen.. maybe this did something to delay it... if you are so firm in believing that this isn't true, provide your reasoning of what happened with the black mist... And no... you heard a voice, and that's it... that proves nothing. If Roxas really is Ven reborn, he would be the same... and he looks like Sora too.

I think they showed roxas twice because they wanted us to think that "blone haired kid" and "glowing eye unknown" were two different people. I don't know this for a fact, but it is confirmed that they are both roxas. I really don't know why the heartless symbol appeared on the rock, but they took it out for the actual game, so maybe they didn't want it there. Ansem never had a heartless symbol on his chest, he had a necklace, that's why there was a chain attached to the symbol that went around his neck.

I have never seen anything confirming that they are both roxas, do you have a link? Proof maybe? You could be right, but in the same way, I could be too.. or we could both simply be wrong... who knows.

And forgive me for missing that detail, I didn't know it was a necklace... My bad.

The password was the names of the six aprentices, that's why there are six names, not seven. And all the numbers of letters matched up with the aprentices, not the princesses.

In KH2... it was the princesses that were the passwords... so that's what I said, I didn't pay attention to the number of *'s to see if it matched up but that's not a big deal... like I said, I don't know if that part has any significance, and personally, I can't see why you are nitpicking because the password was changed when that wasn't even a part of my theory... it was just the scene leading up to my point. Geez.

the hooded guy is xigbar. And he said the xemnas's other friend is in the room of awakening. How can the same friend be in both rooms at the same time?

I know that now, because it was pointed out to me the first time I posted this segment of my theory, I just copied and pasted that section and didn't change it. And the part about his friend being in the room of awakening... Xigbar said that, not me... so ask him.

(talking about kairi's keyblade)

Kingdom key has a keychain, is that not the keyblade's true form? Who says that a keyblade is in "true form" when it doesn't have a keychain?

I never said that having a Keychain on a Keyblade takes it out of its "true form" I mearly asked if there was a different chain on it... besides it original one... You're just trying to attack me for every little thing, and honestly, it's getting annoying, I'm sorry.

Nomura didn't say that there is exactly one keyblade for every qualified person. He was just saying that the number of keyblades is not limited. A keyblade isn't made for exactly one person. Nomura did say that mickey went to the dark realm to find a keyblade. Mickey didn't have the dark keyblade when he was an aprentice because he got that keyblade during kh1.

And actually... he kinda did. He said that for every qualified heart, there is one keyblade.

I probably would've taken this theory more seriously if there weren't so many things already disproving it. I tend to like it more when people make theories that are supported with legitimate evidence.

Everything you said to disprove my theories are speculation, your thoughts, questions that I answered, or things you said that twisted my words around. There are some facts that you stated in there, but like I've said a MILLION times before... THIS IS MY THEORY!!! You don't have to like it... and you certainly don't have to nitpick at everything... It isn't meant to be the truth, it is meant to be my thoughts that others can view and comment upon. I don't disagree with the idea of others not seeing eye to eye with my theories, and they can disagree and argue their point if they feel like it... but there is no reason to come in here and try to tear my theory apart piece by piece... it's uncalled for.

Like I said before... it's called CONSTRUCTIVE critisism... not "LET'S BASH THIS THEORY INTO THE GROUND THEN SPIT ON IT!" So please try to consider how what you are saying reflects upon me personally... because I put A LOT of work into this... and to have someone come in and tear it down, and try to degrade me... it's just not right... So please be considerate.
 

Awesome Ansem

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Understand, you did post a theory on the internet. Unless you think I should mindlessly agree with your theory, I think I am obligated to point out what's wrong with it. Would you like it better if I said it was just a terrible theory and didn't give you any reasons. I liked reading it, but it did have many flaws.

And no... it doesn't take two keyblades to open it, it takes two keyblades to lock it. And again... it's a theory, not something I believe is set in stone, so obviously it might have some loop holes or points that aren't correct. That's going to happen with every theory
Your right about the sealing thing, but didn't they open kh in kh2 with keyblades? I know it's probably different because it was a fake kh. Mickey said that kh opened because it wanted them to protect it, because it had a will of its own. And its still a mystery about how ansem was able to open it, but its a mystery how ansem does most things. I guess using a heart to open kh is plausible, but the heart still came from UEM's keyblade.

just because everyone told him he was a nobody, doesn't necessarily mean that he was one. I know it's far fetched, but again, it's a theory. And think outside the box a little... geez.
But roxas was born in twilight town, in the realm of nothingness, which is a clear sign of a nobody transformation. I do know that roxas is a special nobody and there are some mysteries about him relating to a heart or something, but he is still a nobody.

I know this, but if his body had dissapeared immediately, we wouldn't have seen his face, would we? lol... and he was frozen.. maybe this did something to delay it... if you are so firm in believing that this isn't true, provide your reasoning of what happened with the black mist... And no... you heard a voice, and that's it... that proves nothing. If Roxas really is Ven reborn, he would be the same... and he looks like Sora too.
I don't think being frozen would stop the body from disappearing into another realm. And maybe the black (and white) mist is just from the "black magic" that the UEM was using or just a cool effect or something. I just don't think that black mist is enoug to suggest that he was taking ven's heart. And I don't really know what voice you're talking about. As for the "blonde haired kid" and "glowing eye unknown" being two different people. Even if that were true, I thought you were saying that roxas was ven reborn. Wouldn't that make "blonde haired kid" and "glowing eye unknown" the same person? Or are you saying that roxas and ven existed as two different people at the same time? If so, why was ven wearing all of roxas's clothes and talking to xemnas? It's crazy enough that roxas and sora exist at the same time, let alone roxas, sora, and ven.

In KH2... it was the princesses that were the passwords... so that's what I said, I didn't pay attention to the number of *'s to see if it matched up but that's not a big deal... like I said, I don't know if that part has any significance, and personally, I can't see why you are nitpicking because the password was changed when that wasn't even a part of my theory... it was just the scene leading up to my point. Geez.
If I didn't correct that tiny detail then some people might continue to believe false information such as this. I was trying to clear it up for anyone, including you, that didn't already know what xemnas's password was. I once heard someone say that there were 12 princesses of heart. If I didn't correct that detail then maybe some other readers would've thought there were 12 princesses, and I just think we should all get our facts right.

And the part about his friend being in the room of awakening... Xigbar said that, not me... so ask him.
you must've misunderstood me. Xigbar said that xemnas's other friend was in the room of awakening and that he is always talking to his friend in the room of sleep. You said that xigbar said that the friend that xemnas was talking to was in the room of awakening. I made that sound really confusing.

and if so... it that the keyblades true form? Or does it have a Keychain on it that is altering it's appearance?
I never said that having a Keychain on a Keyblade takes it out of its "true form" I mearly asked if there was a different chain on it... besides it original one... You're just trying to attack me for every little thing, and honestly, it's getting annoying, I'm sorry.
I must've misunderstood you or something. Anyway, if I didn't correct what I think is wrong about some of the evidence you stated, how are you going to improve and make better theories in the future? I'm just trying to help, I'm not trying to stomp your dreams or anything.

And actually... he kinda did. He said that for every qualified heart, there is one keyblade.
that's not really what he said. It's not like each keyblade was made for only one person to use. keyblades aren't even really made, they choose their weilder. The interviewer asked nomura about the number of keyblades. Nomura said something like "Let's just say there can be a keyblade for anyone with a qualified heart." He was just saying that the number of keyblades isn't exactly limited to like "5" or "8" or something. There are as many keyblades as there needs to be. not a specific number.

You don't have to like it... and you certainly don't have to nitpick at everything... It isn't meant to be the truth, it is meant to be my thoughts that others can view and comment upon. I don't disagree with the idea of others not seeing eye to eye with my theories, and they can disagree and argue their point if they feel like it... but there is no reason to come in here and try to tear my theory apart piece by piece... it's uncalled for.
I was just dissagreeing with some parts of your theory and arguing my points. Why is my post uncalled for? You did post your theory in the forums for people to judge, did you not? Unless you just wanted people to agree with every part of it and not state their own feelings about it, I don't really think I did anything wrong.
 
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Twinblades

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sorry if this is already mentioned...but....
the glowing eyed unknown is roxas but the video was made early so plans had been made throughtout the years. I guess the KH team changed their minds and made nobodys and their characteristics so therefore getting rid of roxas's glowing eye and nobody ensignia
and again i skipped the other pages because i dont feel like reading what everyone said so sorry if this is already mentioned and also i got this info from what other members said about nomura's interveiw or something like that
 
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