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Muse

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Even though I'm sure you're tired of me bringing this up already, but that sounds as though he could be talking about Ven's memories as well. :v Especially since Ven couldn't recognize MX.

And then there's another scene that could possibly be connected to this, where Terra says, "What have you done to his heart?!" or something along those lines while holding onto Ven. He could be talking about Ven's memories being messed with.
 

xjeezlouisx

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Even though I'm sure you're tired of me bringing this up already, but that sounds as though he could be talking about Ven's memories as well. :v Especially since Ven couldn't recognize MX.
Its ok I have nothing else to do but!
What if you can be revived or you can be revived from being an unbirth to a Person!.... yeah this is going nowhere... ha ha ha...

And then there's another scene that could possibly be connected to this, where Terra says, "What have you done to his heart?!" or something along those lines while holding onto Ven. He could be talking about Ven's memories being messed with.
well I still get my 2 plus's+ right? x0o
 

Muse

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Its ok I have nothing else to do but!
What if you can be revived or you can be revived from being an unbirth to a Person!.... yeah this is going nowhere... ha ha ha...

Well, since your Unbirth theory sounds like the person's just dead or at the very least a zombie, then unless they can reverse death, I don't think so.
 

Pratiko

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Huh, I was PROVED that Unbirths don't have Hearts. That's the end of this, I believe.

Mmm but with this sentence from Nomura... you know, where he said something like: "Memories play a bigger role in giving shape/from to the Heart", something along those lines. Could it be that Unbirths are Memories ripped of someone's Heart?

MX said:
seems that you're losing it. However you haven't lost it permanently. in order to obtain it give, now! Recover everything and discover the truth!

Terra said:
What have you done to his heart?!

DS = Ven's Memories? o.o
 
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I'm going to support this theory as credible.

Initially it sounds almost idiotic, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Let's look at the names of the enemies so far and see what they have for connotations.

Heartless and Nobodies. Both have literal definitions for the words that oppose their concept.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.

So both names contain a root word (Heart, body) with a negative suffix/prefix (less, No), respectively.

Apply this to the Unbirth.
Root word: Birth
Prefix: Un

The negative prefix denotes the opposite of the root word. In other words, we're looking for an antonym of birth. The antonym for birth is death.

Now, some may argue against this, but that's just silly. Death is the antonym for birth, I don't know how else to say it, go check a dictionary. Some words can hold antonyms in common despite not meaning the exact same thing (birth and life). You are alive (life), you are no longer alive (death). You come into life (birth), you go out of life (death).

So, with that in mind, let's move on.

In the same manner as Heartless and Nobodies, Unbirth DO have births, but the word "unbirth" is used to describe them in some way.

How would having no soul, only a heart and a body, constitute as being "unborn"?
Well, first and foremost, to those naysayers that deny this on the grounds of the Secret Ansem Reports, I say poo-poo. Xehanort's Ansem Reports have been shown to have faulty reasoning, so we cannot assume that AtW is faultless. But, actually, this doesn't even have to contradict the Secret Ansem Reports.

Who said they necessarily have to lose souls? When a soul is lost, the being gives way to death. But what if a being could conceivably be born without a soul in the first place?

How can said being have "life," you ask? Well, as Nomura has said, a heart is proof of life. You have a heart, you're considered alive. Despite the fact that a soul is necessary to maintain that life, could it be possible that something in the initial condition of a soul-less being allows it to be "alive"? Think about it. If Heartless (only a heart) can be sentient, why couldn't an Unbirth (heart and body)? If anything, a "living" heart and body sounds more credible than just a "living" heart.

You might be saying, "Hey, then that means an Unbirth is basically a Heartless with a body." Well, more or less, yes. But I think it's a great concept. The Heartless, comprised of a heart, do not need anything else. The heart is the source of all power. But this is a chance to have a being with a heart lack, and possibly desire a soul. It would be interesting to compare them to the Nobodies. Plus, the Unbirth are the origin of the Heartless/Nobodies, and this theory makes sense of that. An Unbirth is one step before a Heartless, and acts as an intermediate being between Heartless and Nobodies.

Heart--Heart and Body--Body and Soul

You could technically consider the Unbirth to be more like the Undead, but I highly doubt they'd be portrayed as zombie-esque in KH.

So let's go back to the whole name game.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.
Unbirths DO have births (their creation). The word is used to describe how, despite being "sentient," they aren't truly alive, not by any conventional meaning.

One of the reasons why I think this is a great idea is that the game will get to divulge just exactly how the soul works. If Chain of Memories/Days can emphasize memories, I don't see why Birth by Sleep wouldn't be allowed to focus on another aspect of the being besides the heart. And it's just a simple, straightforward concept in the face of many others which are frankly getting to complicated (funny coming from me).

Now, how they come into existence is another story, but it's given me something to think about.

So, yes, believe it or not, props.
 

xjeezlouisx

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one word... WOW
youre like a smarter version of me Grace Assassin
and thank you for understanding I appreciate it so much you have made my day! x0D

but I do believe Unbirths have a connection to Memories.
and I believe its part of their creation.... Simple when The Memories are taken out... like... ERASED! DUN! Dun! dun....
but then if all unbirths memory were to be erased how would it happen... probably connected to MX experimenting?...
maybe a so called machine?..... could TAV have destroyed the machine or shut it down?..... Maybe in order to Stop this evil triumph?
 
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Ophan

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I'm going to support this theory as credible.

Initially it sounds almost idiotic, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Let's look at the names of the enemies so far and see what they have for connotations.

Heartless and Nobodies. Both have literal definitions for the words that oppose their concept.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.

So both names contain a root word (Heart, body) with a negative suffix/prefix (less, No), respectively.

Apply this to the Unbirth.
Root word: Birth
Prefix: Un

The negative prefix denotes the opposite of the root word. In other words, we're looking for an antonym of birth. The antonym for birth is death.

Now, some may argue against this, but that's just silly. Death is the antonym for birth, I don't know how else to say it, go check a dictionary. Some words can hold antonyms in common despite not meaning the exact same thing (birth and life). You are alive (life), you are no longer alive (death). You come into life (birth), you go out of life (death).

So, with that in mind, let's move on.

In the same manner as Heartless and Nobodies, Unbirth DO have births, but the word "unbirth" is used to describe them in some way.

How would having no soul, only a heart and a body, constitute as being "unborn"?
Well, first and foremost, to those naysayers that deny this on the grounds of the Secret Ansem Reports, I say poo-poo. Xehanort's Ansem Reports have been shown to have faulty reasoning, so we cannot assume that AtW is faultless. But, actually, this doesn't even have to contradict the Secret Ansem Reports.

Who said they necessarily have to lose souls? When a soul is lost, the being gives way to death. But what if a being could conceivably be born without a soul in the first place?

How can said being have "life," you ask? Well, as Nomura has said, a heart is proof of life. You have a heart, you're considered alive. Despite the fact that a soul is necessary to maintain that life, could it be possible that something in the initial condition of a soul-less being allows it to be "alive"? Think about it. If Heartless (only a heart) can be sentient, why couldn't an Unbirth (heart and body)? If anything, a "living" heart and body sounds more credible than just a "living" heart.

You might be saying, "Hey, then that means an Unbirth is basically a Heartless with a body." Well, more or less, yes. But I think it's a great concept. The Heartless, comprised of a heart, do not need anything else. The heart is the source of all power. But this is a chance to have a being with a heart lack, and possibly desire a soul. It would be interesting to compare them to the Nobodies. Plus, the Unbirth are the origin of the Heartless/Nobodies, and this theory makes sense of that. An Unbirth is one step before a Heartless, and acts as an intermediate being between Heartless and Nobodies.

Heart--Heart and Body--Body and Soul

You could technically consider the Unbirth to be more like the Undead, but I highly doubt they'd be portrayed as zombie-esque in KH.

So let's go back to the whole name game.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.
Unbirths DO have births (their creation). The word is used to describe how, despite being "sentient," they aren't truly alive, not by any conventional meaning.

One of the reasons why I think this is a great idea is that the game will get to divulge just exactly how the soul works. If Chain of Memories/Days can emphasize memories, I don't see why Birth by Sleep wouldn't be allowed to focus on another aspect of the being besides the heart. And it's just a simple, straightforward concept in the face of many others which are frankly getting to complicated (funny coming from me).

Now, how they come into existence is another story, but it's given me something to think about.

So, yes, believe it or not, props.

you do realize that a heartless is merely the darkness that corroded the
heart, born as an active force that hungers for hearts. One would say
that the heartless have hearts, but purebloods do not in fact contain
themselves with a heart, but rather they absorb it, and the heart becomes
consumed and disappears. It doesn't have a body nor a soul in any means,
thus it is also a sentient being that is not truly alive. A heartless being with
only a heart, is a misconception.
 

zillagod

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‡ƵionΡhnӾ‡;4196480 said:
you do realize that a heartless is merely the darkness that corroded the
heart, born as an active force that hungers for hearts. One would say
that the heartless have hearts, but purebloods do not in fact contain
themselves with a heart, but rather they absorb it, and the heart becomes
consumed and disappears. It doesn't have a body nor a soul in any means,
thus it is also a sentient being that is not truly alive. A heartless being with
only a heart, is a misconception.

That isn't necessarily true, it is never stated whether or not a heart is required for a Heartless to exist but it does seem to be the implication, that since they did a similar type of name as nobodies, the heartless also do have hearts.
 
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_EX

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That isn't necessarily true, it is never stated whether or not a heart is require for a Heartless to exist but it does seem to be the implication, that since they did a similar type of name as nobodies, the heartless also do have hearts.

You sure?
 

Ophan

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but it's the existence that i'm referring to,
not what they need to maintain for it. When
the heart is stolen, essentially the person
becomes a heartless, and on that note
darkness becomes an active force. The
heartless would first be an existence without
the heart.
 

zillagod

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‡ƵionΡhnӾ‡;4196570 said:
but it's the existence that i'm referring to,
not what they need to maintain for it. When
the heart is stolen, essentially the person
becomes a heartless, and on that note
darkness becomes an active force. The
heartless would first be an existence without
the heart.

The same could be said for a lot of things though, I know my theory about Unbirths being pure darkness has some possibility to it however I also feel that this very simple explanation could work even better than mine.
 

UnstoppableSound

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Edit!2
if you can figure this out:
Heartless - They Have a Heart consumed by darkness but no Body
Nobody - They Have a Body&Soul with Memories but no Heart
Unbirth - There Born/Alive/Resurrected ___________ but no Soul*

*I know without a Soul there Dead.... which leads me to believe that there alive but dead which goes to my theory a total + again x0]

Then Im sure you can figure out what I mean
the bolded letters are opposites as you can tell, try to figure out the puzzle

EDIT3
I know my Theory is getting crappier every second but I think I have come to a Conclusion unless someone proves me wrong

Unbirth - There Born/Alive/Resurrected with a Body&Heart but No Memories&Soul.... (Soul could be in there or not i dont know)
Ven could have asked for this when He said Erase me....

PROOF
Nomura: "Since the heart does'nt have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart"

Now one could say that the "Formation" of a heart is kinda like the heart being born. Therefore if we were to remove all memories from the heart, the heart would resort to a state of being unformed/unborn.

Thus an unbirth may be created.

PROOF2
MX: Long time no see
Ven: Who are you?
MX: As for having met you... seem that you're losing it. However you haven't lost it permanently. in order to obtain it give it up. Now! Recover everything and discover the truth!

looks like you can recover from being a Unbirth (theory)

YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep TGS 2007 Trailer in ENGLISH

this relates so much to my theory which gives it 2 Plus's+

I can't really follow what you are saying...Perhaps you'd like to organize your main post a little better?
Anyway, the only thing that makes sense and seems plausible, is that an Unbirth may be a being with no memories at all, and therefore an empty heart, which in turn could some how end up making an incomplete and all most non existent being, but that's going on a limb.

Also, if your theory of an Unbirth is something without memories, then does Roxas not fall into that category? Roxas had no memories at all in his life. Unless of course, you call him an exception.
 

Pratiko

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I'm going to support this theory as credible.

Initially it sounds almost idiotic, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.
Let's look at the names of the enemies so far and see what they have for connotations.

Heartless and Nobodies. Both have literal definitions for the words that oppose their concept.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.

So both names contain a root word (Heart, body) with a negative suffix/prefix (less, No), respectively.

Apply this to the Unbirth.
Root word: Birth
Prefix: Un

The negative prefix denotes the opposite of the root word. In other words, we're looking for an antonym of birth. The antonym for birth is death.

Now, some may argue against this, but that's just silly. Death is the antonym for birth, I don't know how else to say it, go check a dictionary. Some words can hold antonyms in common despite not meaning the exact same thing (birth and life). You are alive (life), you are no longer alive (death). You come into life (birth), you go out of life (death).

So, with that in mind, let's move on.

In the same manner as Heartless and Nobodies, Unbirth DO have births, but the word "unbirth" is used to describe them in some way.

How would having no soul, only a heart and a body, constitute as being "unborn"?
Well, first and foremost, to those naysayers that deny this on the grounds of the Secret Ansem Reports, I say poo-poo. Xehanort's Ansem Reports have been shown to have faulty reasoning, so we cannot assume that AtW is faultless. But, actually, this doesn't even have to contradict the Secret Ansem Reports.

Who said they necessarily have to lose souls? When a soul is lost, the being gives way to death. But what if a being could conceivably be born without a soul in the first place?

How can said being have "life," you ask? Well, as Nomura has said, a heart is proof of life. You have a heart, you're considered alive. Despite the fact that a soul is necessary to maintain that life, could it be possible that something in the initial condition of a soul-less being allows it to be "alive"? Think about it. If Heartless (only a heart) can be sentient, why couldn't an Unbirth (heart and body)? If anything, a "living" heart and body sounds more credible than just a "living" heart.

You might be saying, "Hey, then that means an Unbirth is basically a Heartless with a body." Well, more or less, yes. But I think it's a great concept. The Heartless, comprised of a heart, do not need anything else. The heart is the source of all power. But this is a chance to have a being with a heart lack, and possibly desire a soul. It would be interesting to compare them to the Nobodies. Plus, the Unbirth are the origin of the Heartless/Nobodies, and this theory makes sense of that. An Unbirth is one step before a Heartless, and acts as an intermediate being between Heartless and Nobodies.

Heart--Heart and Body--Body and Soul

You could technically consider the Unbirth to be more like the Undead, but I highly doubt they'd be portrayed as zombie-esque in KH.

So let's go back to the whole name game.

Heartless DO have hearts. The word is used to describe how they're cruel, emotionless creatures of darkness.
Nobodies DO have bodies. The word is used to describe how they're essentially non-existent.
Unbirths DO have births (their creation). The word is used to describe how, despite being "sentient," they aren't truly alive, not by any conventional meaning.

One of the reasons why I think this is a great idea is that the game will get to divulge just exactly how the soul works. If Chain of Memories/Days can emphasize memories, I don't see why Birth by Sleep wouldn't be allowed to focus on another aspect of the being besides the heart. And it's just a simple, straightforward concept in the face of many others which are frankly getting to complicated (funny coming from me).

Now, how they come into existence is another story, but it's given me something to think about.

So, yes, believe it or not, props.

Unbirths don't have Hearts, so half of that is wrong. Proof: YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep gameplay 1 (re: riplai) Terra in Enchanted Domain
Unbirths don't release Hearts when dying.

That isn't necessarily true, it is never stated whether or not a heart is required for a Heartless to exist but it does seem to be the implication, that since they did a similar type of name as nobodies, the heartless also do have hearts.

Uh. Heartless don't "have" Hearts, they ARE Hearts consumed by Darkness. The Darkness previously in the Heart, now released, is what gives them Shape, that's why they are all Dark and release Hearts when they die.
 

TrueRoxas527

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It's showed that Heartless are merely created from the darkness of the heart. So if the heart perishes even, the darkness ca still form a Heartless, but as far as I'm concerned, a Heartless is a Heart gone dark. Shown near the end of KH2 when all the heart are exploded from the machine and fall down below. They touch the ground or walls, and a whole bunch of Heartless appear from the walls and ground. So, I'm only assuming that a heart is required to make a Heartless. You get what I'm saying? If you don't I totally understand. It's pretty confusing anyway.

I did think that an Unbrith was just a body, but now I have a lot more reason to believe that it's a body and heart, as confusing as it may be.
 

xjeezlouisx

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Unbirths don't have Hearts, so half of that is wrong. Proof: YouTube - Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep gameplay 1 (re: riplai) Terra in Enchanted Domain
Unbirths don't release Hearts when dying.
Its a demo... you realize that right? its not the actual thing, and either way in my theory the heart can or cannot be with the unbirths...

Uh. Heartless don't "have" Hearts, they ARE Hearts consumed by Darkness. The Darkness previously in the Heart, now released, is what gives them Shape, that's why they are all Dark and release Hearts when they die.

They still have a heart.... but yeah thats a way to put it...
 
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Zeagal

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PROOF
Nomura: "Since the heart does'nt have a form, memories play an important part in forming a heart"

Now one could say that the "Formation" of a heart is kinda like the heart being born. Therefore if we were to remove all memories from the heart, the heart would resort to a state of being unformed/unborn.

Thus an unbirth may be created.

I like this part. It seems most probable imo. Only it's not very new. As for the rest of it, it's anyone's guess really. So I'd say it's just as possible as most of the others, and good job for avoiding dead babies.
 

blacksamurai2

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‡ƵionΡhnӾ‡;4192502 said:
the opposite of being born, is not being born,
the opposite of LIFE, is DEATH
Though it is not to this theory, you can die without being born.

Being born is when your taken out the body, not what should happen if the baby dies before being born.
You are alive in the womb, but can also die.
 
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