Namine, Ventus, and Castle Oblivion

[Sephiroth0812]

buugh but bwahopl?

MX RoL RoD CoD CO TAV HPO DtD IKK TWTWN BHK TWTN DI ASoD PoH WtD LS MF

Bwahopl. BWAHOPL.

LOL, let's see how many I can decipher...

Err...buugh? No idea...

MX = Master Xehanort
RoL = Realm of Light
RoD = Realm of Darkness
CoD = Cloud of Darkness...err, no, that's from Final Fantasy, lol
CO = Castle Oblivion
TAV = Terra, Aqua, Ventus
HPO = No idea
DtD = Door to Darkness
IKK = Inverse Kingdom Key (aka Kingdom Key D)
TWTNW = The world that never was
BHK = Blonde Haired Kid (aka Roxas)
DI = Destiny Islands
ASoD = Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (aka Xehanort's heartless)
PoH = Princess of Heart or Princesses of Heart
WtD = Warrior the dumbass? Nope, no idea.
LS = Lingering Sentiment
MF = Mysterious Figure

 

[Goldpanner]

CoD = Cloud of Darkness...err, no, that's from Final Fantasy, lol

Corridor of Darkness~

HPO = No idea

Hayner Pence Olette

WtD = Warrior the dumbass? Nope, no idea.

Way to Dawn

Here's some more

RAN AtW SDG SRK CoA

 

[Smile]

It said in the FM+ Ultimania that Namine was given a body using Sora's as an 'intermediary'... and in the same paragraph they described Kairi's heart (iirc) as being the 'intermediary' for the form Sora got when he was changed back from a Heartless.

So, however Namine got a body out of nowhere would be the same way Sora did.

Lol Namine from Ven like Sora from Kairi. Though I'd have to wonder if Ven really is a PoH (Prince, Prince xD) anymore seeing how he absorbed Vanitas and then broke his own Heart apart more or less.

 

[Grey]

Okay this series has the most retarded acronyms

What the fcuk is that, body without a heart or... princess light?? jdfksc

I mentioned the full term/phrase earlier in the post, I thought I was clearer... ;_; my bad. I remember reading that the first time and laughing. Someone should come up with a better acronym.

RAN AtW SDG SRK CoA

Not sure about RAN or CoA, but Ansem the Wise, Sora Donald Goofy, Sora Riku Kairi.

Naminé isn't Ven, his injured heart most likely just affected her appearance as it did with Roxas. Remember, Roxas and Naminé where both born through Sora's body and Soul, only the hearts from which they hailed where different (Sora's and Kairi's, respectively).

That's kind of what I was saying...?

On your edit:
If Ven is still a BwaHoPL, where the heck went that Darkness which was Vanitas?
When Ven defeated Vanitas the final time he should have his complete heart again, thus having the however small it was amount of darkness back that MX stole by creating Vanitas.

Well, we know he at least was a BwaHoPL.

However, the only thing we see is the X-Blade shattering and Vanitas dissipating into nothing, and after that Ven becomes comatose. It's possible that Vanitas returned to Ven's Heart, but Sora already filled the part of Ven that was missing, so Vanitas would be pouring the eggnog of his existence into an already-full glass. Even moreso, his eggnog would be dirty and expired and the glass would be sparkly clean~

So while it's possible that Vanitas just sort of swapped with Sora's place and reunited with Ven, it's also possible that Vanitas disappeared completely or, like a true Kingdom Hearts villain, fled elsewhere. Perhaps into... Riku's Heart? (How that would happen could possibly be that when Sora, whose heart is connected through friendship to Riku's, opened his Heart to Ven's at the end of BBS, he (Sora) opened a pathway from Ven's Heart to his friend Riku's Heart, and Vanitas moved along that. I wouldn't be surprised if Nomura made that scene more significant than it is at face-value, although what I just typed is only one possibility.)

I believe, unless Nomura explicitly states otherwise, we can't assume Vanitas and Ven merged. Ven's Heart could have become comatose due to the shock of so much darkness entering his heart, or Ven's Heart could have become comatose due to the destruction of the X-Blade and Vanitas, which comprised half of his heart regardless. We don't know.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Corridor of Darkness~



Hayner Pence Olette



Way to Dawn

Here's some more

RAN AtW SDG SRK CoA

Getting on with this despite Grey spoilering some:

RAN = I assume Roxas, Axel, Naminé
AtW = Ansem the Wise (aka DiZ)
SDG = Sora, Donald, Goofy (god, that phrase repeated so often drove me crazy in KH II, lol)
SRK = Sora, Riku, Kairi
CoA = nope, i first thought it was Chamber of Awakening, but that room is called just the chamber of waking...with a w...*ggg*

That's kind of what I was saying...?

Err...really? I was responding to your first statement of the idea Naminé being Ven.
But if I've missed something out here I'm sorry. English is not my native tongue and while I do it several years I still misread/misunderstand some passages.

For Ven, Vanitas and the x-blade, yeah, we haven't a confirmed statement about what exactly happened...we only know for sure that after the destruction of the x-blade Ven's heart was injured so severe that even his connection with Sora couldn't help him anymore...

 

[Goldpanner]

CoA = nope, i first thought it was Chamber of Awakening, but that room is called just the chamber of waking...with a w...*ggg*

Sorry, you're right! I remember the CoW jokes now XD;;

 

[Grey]

Err...really? I was responding to your first statement of the idea Naminé being Ven.
But if I've missed something out here I'm sorry. English is not my native tongue and while I do it several years I still misread/misunderstand some passages.

For Ven, Vanitas and the x-blade, yeah, we haven't a confirmed statement about what exactly happened...we only know for sure that after the destruction of the x-blade Ven's heart was injured so severe that even his connection with Sora couldn't help him anymore...

Yeah. I mean, I didn't quite say everything you were saying, but I did agree that Namine is not likely to be Ven's body, but that it's more likely that Ven simply influenced her appearance. I said the possibility for Namine=Ven, but I didn't quite like the idea so much.

It's just... weird. And it causes problems since Namine was "absorbed" into Kairi, and how Ven is supposed to be Xehanort's "other friend" that will eventually be awakened by Aqua and/or Sora.

And that's fine, I was just pointing out that I agreed with you. ^^;

 

[Smile]

It's just... weird. And it causes problems since Namine was "absorbed" into Kairi, and how Ven is supposed to be Xehanort's "other friend" that will eventually be awakened by Aqua and/or Sora.

I would just like to point out once again that the Namine we saw got absorbed into Kairi was already a translucent being who conveniently disappeared off the face of the Earth once Kairi met Riku. I'm starting to doubt whether she had her own vessel by that point, as debatable as her vessel is to begin with.

 

[mookystank]

Sora was the Heartless produced.

I was under the impression that Sora's Heartless led to the creation of Roxas. Are we to assume that the production of only one Heartless from a body releasing multiple hearts should lead to multiple Nobodies? In that case, where are the rest of AX's Nobodies? After all, he had 3 hearts in him, not just two. By that logic, there should not only be Xemnas, but two more Nobodies.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

@Mookystank:
Nope, this case with Sora was an absolute exception, it isn't the rule.
The production of a heartless leads in fact only very rarely to a nobody at all.
In this particular case we have two entities created by the same body, but through different hearts:
Roxas => Sora's body/Soul through Sora's heart.
Naminé => Sora's body/Soul through Kairi's heart.
Naminé isn't even a true Nobody and doesn't have a heartless only because Kairi is a princess of heart.

In case of Apprentice Xehanort the 3 hearts were "clustered" together so they should have landed all in Ansem SoD.
Xehanort could not have two more nobodies because there would be two additional bodies required for it...

 

[roxasisamazing]

id say Namine is a mix of Kairi and Ven

 

[mookystank]

@Mookystank:
Nope, this case with Sora was an absolute exception, it isn't the rule.
----
Xehanort could not have two more nobodies because there would be two additional bodies required for it...

There is no body for Namine to inhabit either. If multiple exceptions can be made for Namine, then so can many be made for other Nobodies.
Plus, who's to say that the hearts in Xehanort are clustered, or whether Sora's and Kairi's were not?

I tend to think that Namine has no body at all. After all, Sora doesn't have one for the end of KH1 and the entirety of CoM - Roxas has it, and if we are to continue to accept that Namine does too, then that would put Sora's body in three places. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Pratiko]

There is no body for Namine to inhabit either. If multiple exceptions can be made for Namine, then so can many be made for other Nobodies.
Plus, who's to say that the hearts in Xehanort are clustered, or whether Sora's and Kairi's were not?

I tend to think that Namine has no body at all. After all, Sora doesn't have one for the end of KH1 and the entirety of CoM - Roxas has it, and if we are to continue to accept that Namine does too, then that would put Sora's body in three places. That's just ridiculous.

Sora's a walking Heart, though. Like Ansem SoD was.
And so many exceptions occur on Naminé for the fact that Kairi is a Princess of Heart, therefore has no Darkness to spawn a Heartless to begin with, rather just a shadow... I'd rather call Naminé Kairi's Heartless (Shadow) than Nobody, you know? But the games only interpret Naminé as an exception to Nobodies.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

id say Namine is a mix of Kairi and Ven

We've already discussed this and came to the conclusion this isn't the case.
It's the same reason as with Roxas, both their appearances were affected by Ven's injured heart, not more.
Since both of them were born from Sora's body, in which Ven's injured heart sleeps, their looks were both affected by this.

@Mookystank:
Like Smile already pointed out, we aren't sure/ don't know which vessel Naminé had...as Sora's original body is with Roxas, like you said.
However, Naminé must have had some physical form or she wouldn't be able to experience physical sensations like i.e. Larxene slapping her around...
Sora himself, after being restored may have earned a new body shaped like his original one through Kairi's princess powers.

Execeptions wouldn't be called Exceptions if they would occur that often...
It was said in the Secret Ansem Reports in KH II clearly that Naminé is a very special and rare case.
Plus, as for the clustered hearts:
In the case of Sora and Kairi: Kairi's heart was within Sora's body, but unharmed and active, Ven's heart on the other side was fully merged into Sora's heart, badly injured and therefore dormant.
With Xehanort we have different circumstances:
When Eraqus "died" he probably hid his heart inside Terra's without him noticing (if Eraqus' heart is unharmed or not can't be said since we have no information about it).
Later, in the Keyblade Graveyard, Master Xehanort used his own heart to invade Terra's and tried to subdue it.
So essentially these three hearts are close connected, while Kairi's heart was in Sora, but still independent...that's the difference.

EDIT: @Pratiko: Good point, for Naminé I would be tempted to say she's the exception of an exception, as you said, because of Kairi, she's even odder than Roxas.

 

[mookystank]

I agree about Sora being a walking heart, I think my sarcasm at the end of my post may have been unclear - I meant to say just that, that Sora was in a sense a special kind of Heartless that didn't need a body to exist on its own.

And regarding Namine, I would like to agree with you, but she definitely isn't a Heartless - Kairi is in control of her own heart. That leaves only 3 possibilities: 1) Namine is some whack-ass body-less Nobody; 2) A body magically poofed out of nowhere for her to inhabit, and it looks nothing like Kairi or Sora, or really Ven for that matter; 3) She is something else entirely.

I lean toward the first option, thinking that she was made when Kairi's heart left Sora's body (which contained darkness, unlike Kairi's) and it just operates similarly to Sora's heart operating independently throughout CoM, but in a Nobody-ish way instead of a Heartless-ish way.

 

[barricade21153]

Ok i'm confused. If Kairi is a princess of heart, meaning she has no darkness, how was namine even made? Don't flame me for asking, but that part still confuses me.

 

[mookystank]

Ok i'm confused. If Kairi is a princess of heart, meaning she has no darkness, how was namine even made? Don't flame me for asking, but that part still confuses me.

There certainly shouldn't be flaming for that. It's one of the biggest mysteries of all, it has a lot to do with her status as "special." It's not certain how she was made, but I think it can be inferred that, since it didn't happen when Kairi's heart left her body and went to Sora's, but did when it left Sora's and went back to her, that it has to do with Sora's darkness.

 

[Smile]

Ok i'm confused. If Kairi is a princess of heart, meaning she has no darkness, how was namine even made? Don't flame me for asking, but that part still confuses me.

It happened when Sora stabbed himself using the Keyblade made of the other PoHs' Hearts and turned himself into a Heartless. Because his Heart turned into a Heartless, his vessel began the process of becoming a Nobody. It was also then that Kairi's Heart fled Sora's vessel and returned to her own.
Until retconned otherwise or better explained, what happened is that because two Hearts left Sora's vessel, who was already undergoing the Nobody-fying process, two Nobodies were created. Roxas was born as Sora's Nobody with Sora's own vessel, and Namine was born in Castle Oblivion. Her precise composition is still unknown. Some say she's Nothing incarnate given form thanks to Kairi's Light-filled Heart, that even without a vessel she could still "be". Some say she borrowed Ven's vessel, access to which she gained from her connection to Sora and through Sora's connection to Ven. Some say she's something else entirely.
However, nothing was ever confirmed.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

There certainly shouldn't be flaming for that. It's one of the biggest mysteries of all, it has a lot to do with her status as "special." It's not certain how she was made, but I think it can be inferred that, since it didn't happen when Kairi's heart left her body and went to Sora's, but did when it left Sora's and went back to her, that it has to do with Sora's darkness.

Exactly that.
However, how Naminé was made is clear, what exactly she is and how she got her vessel or rather, what her vessel was made of, that is the mystery.
As for how Naminé was made, the reasons lay with the fact that Kairi's heart hid itself in Sora in KH I, so it was inside Sora's body.
When Sora used the Keyblade of People's Hearts to stab himself, he released Kairi's heart while his own was overwhelmed by it's own darkness. So Sora changed into a heartless and through his heart being lost his Nobody, Roxas, was created from his body and soul.
Naminé however, was created through Kairi's heart being released from Sora's body, so she was made also from Sora's body and soul, but through Kairi's heart, not Sora's.
And while Kairi's body was never available cuz she's a princess of heart and Sora's body was already used by Roxas, Naminé in essence had no true "body" and soul.

Edit: Damn, Smile beat me to it...lol

 

[barricade21153]

I swear Aqua is the only simple character in kingdom hearts.